So What happened?

[kingottoiii]

Jesus, do you ever give credit anywhere? Im not saying we are good, because we are not, but c'mon every win has an asterisk to you. The glass half empty story is old. You probably would give the '92 Florida win an asterisk because we opened the game with a reverse KO return for a TD which doesnt happen too often. Or how about the Clemson Gator Bowl win in '96..yeah that was just a good matchup for us right? Wins & losses happen for millions of reasons and you cant just look at EVERY win and throw an asterisk on them. Yes the WF QB who was torching us last year got hurt...well guess what, that is football. Players get hurt and it affects outcomes. Refs make shitty calls and it sometimes affects results and we will never know (K St pinstripe bowl,Toledo last yr, NW this yr).

My point is we have not been playing good football. So nothing has really changed. The question was "What happened?" My answer is "Nothing" as we have really been the same team the last 4 years. Saying "What happened?" means things have changed. Have they? If so how?

BTW there is no glass half full when you are 1-9 in your last 10 FBS games. There is not a damn thing positive about that. As to your other question on those games, do not be silly. Were either of those games outliers? No they were not. Also you are just making up stuff that doesn't even fit a thing I said. Congrats.

 

[Chip]

i think you're right but then I look at the qbs he's recruited and wonder. it's a mystery to me.

Things change so rapidly with our offense, I don't think there's really a plan. It's recruit what you can, build an offense around it, hope it works. Add new wrinkles as we go (like a goal line package). Overhaul bigger things if you think that will work better (no huddle spread). It's consistently inconsistent.

Maybe that's fine, maybe it's all we can do at this point. Seems weak, but whatever, I like to try to give the benefit of the doubt. As long as they start scoring points in conference games, I don't care if we go wishbone. These dangerous immovable objects known as Big East defenses have beaten me down to it at this point.

 

[xc84]

Jesus, do you ever give credit anywhere? Im not saying we are good, because we are not, but c'mon every win has an asterisk to you. The glass half empty story is old. You probably would give the '92 Florida win an asterisk because we opened the game with a reverse KO return for a TD which doesnt happen too often. Or how about the Clemson Gator Bowl win in '96..yeah that was just a good matchup for us right? Wins & losses happen for millions of reasons and you cant just look at EVERY win and throw an asterisk on them. Yes the WF QB who was torching us last year got hurt...well guess what, that is football. Players get hurt and it affects outcomes. Refs make shitty calls and it sometimes affects results and we will never know (K St pinstripe bowl,Toledo last yr, NW this yr).

Exactly. Our wins are not valid and only our losses define the team and coach.

This is the funniest attempt to void a win:

"we caught them off guard as we used an O and a D that we had not used all year."

yeah...how cheap is that? The old "have a different strategy" thing. That win should not count!

 

[44cuse]

I guess the team was out there drawing up plays in the dirt when they were outgaining Rutgers.

No. The game plan was apparently set in June or July (according to a poster here).

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Jesus, do you ever give credit anywhere? Im not saying we are good, because we are not, but c'mon every win has an asterisk to you. The glass half empty story is old. You probably would give the '92 Florida win an asterisk because we opened the game with a reverse KO return for a TD which doesnt happen too often. Or how about the Clemson Gator Bowl win in '96..yeah that was just a good matchup for us right? Wins & losses happen for millions of reasons and you cant just look at EVERY win and throw an asterisk on them. Yes the WF QB who was torching us last year got hurt...well guess what, that is football. Players get hurt and it affects outcomes. Refs make shitty calls and it sometimes affects results and we will never know (K St pinstripe bowl,Toledo last yr, NW this yr).

1-9 vs FBS teams. Nothing positive at all about that. That's not glass half empty...that's glass completely empty.

44cuse

 

[Millhouse]

Things change so rapidly with our offense, I don't think there's really a plan. It's recruit what you can, build an offense around it, hope it works. Add new wrinkles as we go (like a goal line package). Overhaul bigger things if you think that will work better (no huddle spread). It's consistently inconsistent.

Maybe that's fine, maybe it's all we can do at this point. Seems weak, but whatever, I like to try to give the benefit of the doubt. As long as they start scoring points in conference games, I don't care if we go wishbone. These dangerous immovable objects known as Big East defenses have beaten me down to it at this point.

that's why i'm so ready for 2013 to get here. we might know more. i'm assuming we don't get an extra year of a nassib understudy. if i'm wrong, wake up me up in 2014

 

[Pyle]

Why? He is better than more than 1/2 the BCS QB's which makes him above average.

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He is tied for 8th among all D1 QBs in interceptions. Another QB he is tied with is BJ Daniels. USF is so bad there is talk of Holtz getting fired. This doesn't include how many times he's fumbled or taken a bad sack because he won't throw the ball away. Stats don't win football games, scoreboards do and Nassib is a liability. He has no mobility or pocket presence, and he turns the ball over way too much.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What happened? We turned the corner. The problem is it was into oncoming traffic on a one-way street because Marrone's binder had an old map in it.

That's pretty funny.

 

[DPCuse]

IMO a B coaching job this year should end up in a 7-5 record. Stony Brook, UConn, USF, and Temple are awful. No excuse for losing to them. USC is loaded so you don't expect to beat them. Northwestern, Minny, Pitt, RU, Cincy, Louisville, Mizzou are all toss up games. So a B job goes .500 vs those teams.

As to prior years:

2011
We squeaked by Wake (aided by their QB getting hurt), Rhode Island, Toledo (aided by the PAT call, and half their D being hurt as well as their RB), and Tulane. Everyone of those wins left a lot to be desired. WV was obviously an outlier where our O and D systems matched very well against WV, which is why it was not replicated.

2010
We won a shoot out vs K St and were aided by the celebration call. They were 106th in D that year which is why we were able to put up so many points. Four of the other Ws were over some of the worst teams in CFB (Akron, Maine, Colgate, RU). Then there was WV again, same matchup advantages, and a Cincy team playing an awful backup QB. USF was a good win. Then again BJ Daniels was awful. I give credit to our D but he does have games like that.

2009
Maine and Akron are nothing to write home about. RU we caught them off guard as we used an O and a D that we had not used all year. Northwestern was a very good win. Mike Williams went nuts that game and we made plays on D when we had to.

So when you look at our Ws you will see cupcakes and upsets. When you look at the toss up games we have fared very poorly.

This. Very well recapped. We were never really as good as we thought we were. And we really aren't as bad as we think we are now. It's been a slow and steady ascent if you ask me. The results are not far away IMO.

 

[kingottoiii]

This. Very well recapped. We were never really as good as we thought we were. And we really aren't as bad as we think we are now. It's been a slow and steady ascent if you ask me. The results are not far away IMO.

Agreed. We aren't far away from being that 7-5 team vs this schedule. If not for a few self inflicted wounds we would be right on pace. We have been trending up since GRob. Just because we beat WV and K St does not mean we were level at the time.

 

[Stern]

While I also lay some of the blame on Marrone, he owns the losses, you are over the top. You talk like he is a Pop Warner coach.

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With some of the mistakes he makes I have seen better pop warner coaches! You see it as over the top, I don't. I am not trying to be dramatic for the sake of being dramatic. I don't think he is very good. Year 2 he did well with GROB's players, since then its been all down hill. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Stern]

Losses have been mostly due to mistakes by players. I am not saying the coaches have not made mistakes...but the problems that led to most of the losses happened on the field by individual players. Now one can argue that it's a reflection of the coach. I won't argue against that. But we haven't lost simply because Marrone e.g. called bad timeouts.

Doug doesn't put his players in the best position to win. Period.

1st and goal from the 2 last week...instead of giving it to AAM or Smith he is in a shot-gun for 2 plays. Wasted plays! Pound it up there 4 times, with either of those 2 its a TD. (blame Hacket all day but Doug is the HEAD COACH, he has VETO power on this kind of stuff, that's on Doug.) That is just 1 example from last weeks game. I can list a laundry list of others. LAST years Rutgers game, SU has the lead and Rutgers on 4th and long is punting from their endzone, instead of just putting on a return and taking the ball at around the 50 and maintaining control of the game and the lead, he goes for a punt block, roughs the kicker, 1st down. Rutgers scores and goes onto win the game. The game was in hand, Doug's poor coaching turned it around and gave Rutgers life when they were dead. Seriously, I could sit here all day listing this type of stuff. This isn't complicated stuff, this is basic football coaching stuff and Doug screws it up all the time!

I am sure he is a nice man, he may even be a good college coordinator, he just isn't a head coach.

 

[xc84]

Doug doesn't put his players in the best position to win. Period.

1st and goal from the 2 last week...instead of giving it to AAM or Smith he is in a shot-gun for 2 plays. Wasted plays! Pound it up there 4 times, with either of those 2 its a TD. (blame Hacket all day but Doug is the HEAD COACH, he has VETO power on this kind of stuff, that's on Doug.) That is just 1 example from last weeks game. I can list a laundry list of others. LAST years Rutgers game, SU has the lead and Rutgers on 4th and long is punting from their endzone, instead of just putting on a return and taking the ball at around the 50 and maintaining control of the game and the lead, he goes for a punt block, roughs the kicker, 1st down. Rutgers scores and goes onto win the game. The game was in hand, Doug's poor coaching turned it around and gave Rutgers life when they were dead. Seriously, I could sit here all day listing this type of stuff. This isn't complicated stuff, this is basic football coaching stuff and Doug screws it up all the time!

I am sure he is a nice man, he may even be a good college coordinator, he just isn't a head coach.

The one play you cite is the one I cited last week too. It's the one clear-cut mistake that really hurt the team. Marrone said his play calling was bad on that instance too. And I said coaches made mistakes but that's not why they lost that game. They lost due to execution on the field. Even on that one series... a shi* pass from Nassib is not the coaches fault. I agree, they should have punched it 4 times. But why are we so insistent on that? Because we don't really trust Nassib to finish it.

 

[oddo033]

Some of you really just don't watch any CFB at all. Ryan Nassib is MUCH better than Josh NUnes or Mettenberger at LSU. I guess it's fun for some to take shots at their own QB but atleast be right when you do.

Nassib is average at best. It is painful watching him throw any type of pass with touch on it. Its a sad state when an average QB is the only option...he makes me year for the days of rj anderson...

 

[javadoc]

So I ask what happened? I mean seriously what happened?

Good defense in 2010 led by Derrell Smith, and an offensive gameplan - a gameplan in general - that shortened the game and played for a low-scoring grudge match. The offense was able to impose its will in the run game when necessary, and we had Delone Carter. The BE offenses we faced stank.

We have debated whether we were running the offense we wanted to, or were fudging the system to get by until we had the right talent to run what we wanted to. Well, this year I think we are running what we want to (more or less), but we still don't have the talent for it. We're closer, but we are paying the price for not being ready. The big problem is our lack of ability to impose our will in the run game. If we had the mindset and the ability of the 2010 team in the run game, we would probably be 5-1 right now.

Defense has given up (if I recall, kinda buzzed in an airport sports bar at the moment) 28, 42, 17, 17, 13, 16. The 2010 team would have gobbled up this schedule.

 

[Don]

the people who are laughing at nassib not being better than either the LSU or Stanford QB it is apparent you are clueless about college football in general. Stanford's QB is attrocious and barely completes 50 percent of his passes .Nassib is better than LSU qb by a good ways as well , better completion percentage more yards rushing, been sacked less its not even close. Its is also laughable that you say look at the offenses these qbs run. I have news for you Nassib has more running yards than either of those QB's as well.

as for comparisons to BJ daniels and the interceptions, Nassib has thrown 63 more passes, has a completion percentage that is eight points higher than daniels.

Look he is not the best QB in college football not even close but he is a better qb than many teams ranked ahead of us or that have winning records. Of all the problems on the team he is the least of them and my quess the reason he is the QB and not Loeb or Hunt or Broyld or Kinder is because he is the best QB on the team and unless these two freshman coming in are ready you all will find out how good Nassib really was once he is gone.

 

[xc84]

Nassib is average at best. It is painful watching him throw any type of pass with touch on it. Its a sad state when an average QB is the only option...he makes me year for the days of rj anderson...

C'mon... that's not honest. RJ Anderson?

 

[rrlbees]

He is tied for 8th among all D1 QBs in interceptions. Another QB he is tied with is BJ Daniels. USF is so bad there is talk of Holtz getting fired. This doesn't include how many times he's fumbled or taken a bad sack because he won't throw the ball away. Stats don't win football games, scoreboards do and Nassib is a liability. He has no mobility or pocket presence, and he turns the ball over way too much.

Cherry picking? No one stat tells the complete story. Yes, the INT's is the one stat that is bad. But keep in mind, 3 of his 8 bounced off a receiver. How often does that even occur once?

But that is one stat. Of the 100+ D1 QB's, he is in the top half for everything.

Yds/gm - 8th
Atts/gm - 9th
Tot off - 9th
Comps - 11th
Comp % - 35th
TD's - 35th
Yds/att - 47th
- 52nd

That doesn't say AA but he is certainly above average. His biggest problem is non-sack caused fumbles. He needs to clean that up. And yes turnovers have a major impact on games.

It is also a complete fallicy that he plays nervous or scared. He's a tough confident kid and that may contribute to him trying to do things he shouldn't. He is far from a wreck out there needing a shrink as a couple people have said.

And your right, stats mean little and it's all about wins and losses. But it is a team sport and Nassib is far from the sole reason we are 2-4. I could make a very long list of people, including offense, defense, specials, and coaches that have contributed to multiple losses.

It's also amusing that just 2 seasons ago people felt his greatest strengths were being tough and a good game manager. Now people say those are weaknesses.

He's an above average QB that does what the coaches want on the field. He's the best QB on the team and it's not even close. Nobody else has played for 3 years. And if he isn't the right "type" of QB for this offense, then maybe we shouldn't be running this offense. The right "type"of QB's still sit on the bench while the wrong "type"of of QB plays. What does that tell you?

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[kingottoiii]

Defense has given up (if I recall, kinda buzzed in an airport sports bar at the moment) 28, 42, 17, 17, 13, 16. The 2010 team would have gobbled up this schedule.

Comparing our first 6 games each year:

2012 USC > 2010 UW who scored 41 points
2012 Northwestern > 2010 Pitt who scored 45 points
2012 Pitt > 2010 USF who only scored 9 points
2012 RU > 2010 Akron who only scored 3 points
2012 Minn > 2010 Maine who scored 14 points
2012 Stony Brook > 2010 Colgate who scored 7 points

Taking away points from returns the D gave up ppg of:

2012 22.2
2010 17.7

So against a much easier schedule the 2010 team allowed a whopping 4.5 ppg less than this year's team.

 

[Millhouse]

Cherry picking? No one stat tells the complete story. Yes, the INT's is the one stat that is bad. But keep in mind, 3 of his 8 bounced off a receiver. How often does that even occur once?

But that is one stat. Of the 100+ D1 QB's, he is in the top half for everything.

Yds/gm - 8th
Atts/gm - 9th
Tot off - 9th
Comps - 11th
Comp % - 35th
TD's - 35th
Yds/att - 47th
- 52nd

That doesn't say AA but he is certainly above average. His biggest problem is non-sack caused fumbles. He needs to clean that up. And yes turnovers have a major impact on games.

It is also a complete fallicy that he plays nervous or scared. He's a tough confident kid and that may contribute to him trying to do things he shouldn't. He is far from a wreck out there needing a shrink as a couple people have said.

And your right, stats mean little and it's all about wins and losses. But it is a team sport and Nassib is far from the sole reason we are 2-4. I could make a very long list of people, including offense, defense, specials, and coaches that have contributed to multiple losses.

It's also amusing that just 2 seasons ago people felt his greatest strengths were being tough and a good game manager. Now people say those are weaknesses.

He's an above average QB that does what the coaches want on the field. He's the best QB on the team and it's not even close. Nobody else has played for 3 years. And if he isn't the right "type" of QB for this offense, then maybe we shouldn't be running this offense. The right "type"of QB's still sit on the bench while the wrong "type"of of QB plays. What does that tell you?

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every year, he starts out good. and every year he falls back.

which means that as the year goes on, it takes time for that average to fall which means that for more than half of the season, people can point to stats showing how good he is.

then at the end of the season, we see his final numbers and see that he is clearly below average but you'll never go back and say OOPS. by the time the final verdict is in, we erase it and start over next year.

this guy has had two well below average seasons in conference. the first quarter of the big east season this year is more of the same.

next september, the noble contrarians will surely bemoan that he had to go. the rest of us will shrug and see what happens in conference play.

 

[xc84]

It is also a complete fallicy that he plays nervous or scared. He's a tough confident kid and that may contribute to him trying to do things he shouldn't. He is far from a wreck out there needing a shrink as a couple people have said.

People can watch the same thing and get a different view. I don't know about a "complete wreck" but he certainly freezes up in situations. He was recently compared to Todd Philcoz in P-S article but Philcox was much better. He had much better pocket presence. Nassib just doesn't have the ability to sense and react quickly. That's why he likely won't get much interest from the NFL. That game is twice as fast and Nassib has a hard time reacting now. With all that said, I expect he's the best we got and I root for him just as hard as any other player on the field. I hope he does great tonight and I'll be there watching.

 

[kingottoiii]

Also to compare ppg of the D1A teams we played each season

2010 avg (one less team) 84th

Cincy (missing QB when we played) 57th
UConn 63rd
Louisville (who was missing QB and RB) 63rd
Pitt 67th
WV 78th
USF 85th
Wash 96th
RU 101st
BC (who was missing RB) 109th
Akron 118th

2012 avg (one more team) thus far 68th

Cincy 27th
Louisville 38th
USC 48th
Northwestern 52nd
Pitt 66th
Temple 70th
USF 80th
RU 82nd
Minn (who was missing QB) 86th
Mizzou 88th
UConn 109th

BTW Stony Brook is currently 8th in FCS while Colgate ended up 34th and Maine 98th.