So what is up with Lydon?

[kmart128]

How much better of a position can you get as a shooter than wide open at the top of the key? You can see clear as day his conscious decision to not shoot which has led to a turnover on multiple occasions.



He WAS that kind of player last year. If he lost his shoe this year he'd need a time out to put it back on rather than draining a shoeless three.

Not really last year we were running out offense through Gbinje, Cooney, and sometimes Malachi and when we needed a shot then Lydon would burry it. This year we are trying to run our offense through Lydon when it is clear this offense should be run through Battle and White and have Lydon be a compliment. Yes White is a focul point of this offense but many of his makes are with shot clock running down forced jumpers due to trying to run through Lydon. He is just good enough to bail us out.

 

[RF2044]

Hamstring? Interesting. I was under the impression it was his achilles. Either way I trust the info.

I think you are right--I noted the wrong issue.

 

[Lucid]

Spot on. I think our fanbase here doesn't seem to understand how the NBA draft works, and had unrealistic expectations for Lydon based upon what was said over the summer. When some posters heard that Lydon was a potential lottery pick, they interpret that to mean that he's a superstar talent a la Carmelo Anthony. When in reality, he'd be a late lottery pick [if that] role player type. And there's nothing wrong with that. He's just not a transcendent talent.

He has been a terrific college player though. He's been held back by hamstring issues most of the year, which has undercut his productivity a bit. Not quite as explosive last year, which I attribute to the hamstring. I give him a lot of credit for toughing it out--soft tissue injuries suck, and won't heal until he shuts it down and gets total rest for an extended period of time. Tough to do that when you're in the middle of a season.

These kind of posts are the reason I'm here. Thanks.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think our fanbase here doesn't seem to understand how the NBA draft works, and had unrealistic expectations for Lydon based upon what was said over the summer.

This is an annual spring occurrence, like Groundhog Day, where certain posters come out of their holes to post that Player X should forgo a ~$3m payday and shouldn't go to the NBA because he's not "ready" and will just end up the D-league. Where if he returns to Syracuse, he'll blossom into a lottery pick and an All-Star in 2-3 seasons just like all the others who have done so (like ... hmmm. crickets).

I think it means we have six more weeks of winter.

 

[SBU72]

He is a role player... a stretch 4 that we are trying to make a star. Not his fault as it is coaching needs to do a better job at puting Lydon is a position to succeed. Last year we forced him to play 5 mostly because we had to and this year we tried to make him into a star playmaker and he simply is not that kind of player. He would thrive as a 3rd option in an offense. Would open his shot up instead of him trying to create his own shot.

Also believe that next year there will be better spacing on team. Right now we have Thompson, Gillon, Battle, and White. All jump shooters so spacing isnt the best. Next year Moyer will add a player down low and allow Lydon to step outside the arc and have more space to work with. And Battle will attack rim even more next year which will give even more proper spacing. Hopefully we can pull in Waters to properly distribute the ball.

I would love to see more high low action with Lydon and Thompson next year. Will be a strength of this team.

Another "I don't blame the player, I blame the coaches" comment. Lydon is playing much the same role he played last year and last year he did it much better. Yes he is out of position playing center but there is little or no choice in that. When he get the ball like he did last year he seems to think to much about what to do in stead of doing it. Last year, JB had to tell him to shoot. And when he did, it was in rhythm and looked good. This year so many of the same shots looked forced.

 

[Orangefan1]

Last night's quote by Lydon "I love playing with Frank," SU forward Tyler Lydon said. "I love playing with all our guys, but Frank is a great playmaker. He sees the court really well. He's one of those guys that is always trying to make the right play, whether it's getting it to a big or to a guard. He's just trying to make the right play."

tells me everything I need to know about what has been going on this year. He consistently has not been getting the ball this year from Gillon who clearly favors White and Battle over Lydon. Lydon has been so wide open on a number of plays and it must be frustrating for him not to get the ball. Not sure why Gillon would play favorites but it is so obvious to me. Lydon clearly favors Howard. If you don't believe me go back to the games and count how many times they haven't passed Lydon the ball.

 

[RF2044]

Another "I don't blame the player, I blame the coaches" comment. Lydon is playing much the same role he played last year and last year he did it much better. Yes he is out of position playing center but there is little or no choice in that. When he get the ball like he did last year he seems to think to much about what to do in stead of doing it. Last year, JB had to tell him to shoot. And when he did, it was in rhythm and looked good. This year so many of the same shots looked forced.

Something you might be overlooking is the difference in defensive attention. Last year, Lydon was cast in a complimentary role and thrived not being the focal point of defensive attention. The offense went through Gbinije, Cooney, and Richardson primarily last year, which enabled Lydon to camp out at the three point line and spot up.

As more of a main cog this year, he's getting more concerted defensive focus, and hasn't been as efficient.

Very similar to what happened with CJ Fair -- who like Lydon, was the ultimate complimentary offensive threat, but struggled as the main guy. Fair had an incredible season in terms of advanced metrics in 2013, when the offense ran through MCW and Triche, but those percentages plummeted the following year when he was the main guy. It wasn't a knock on his talent, it just highlighted that the role he was best suited for was complimentary scorer. Lydon's the same way.

 

[SBU72]

Something you might be overlooking is the difference in defensive attention. Last year, Lydon was cast in a complimentary role and thrived not being the focal point of defensive attention. The offense went through Gbinije, Cooney, and Richardson primarily last year, which enabled Lydon to camp out at the three point line and spot up.

As more of a main cog this year, he's getting more concerted defensive focus, and hasn't been as efficient.

Very similar to what happened with CJ Fair -- who like Lydon, was the ultimate complimentary offensive threat, but struggled as the main guy. Fair had an incredible season in terms of advanced metrics in 2013, when the offense ran through MCW and Triche, but those percentages plummeted the following year when he was the main guy. It wasn't a knock on his talent, it just highlighted that the role he was best suited for was complimentary scorer. Lydon's the same way.

I'll give you the defensive attention but he even when he is wide open, he hesitates. Thus he walks. Last year, JB got him to react not think . He now thinks then reacts.

 

[RF2044]

Last night's quote by Lydon "I love playing with Frank," SU forward Tyler Lydon said. "I love playing with all our guys, but Frank is a great playmaker. He sees the court really well. He's one of those guys that is always trying to make the right play, whether it's getting it to a big or to a guard. He's just trying to make the right play."

tells me everything I need to know about what has been going on this year. He consistently has not been getting the ball this year from Gillon who clearly favors White and Battle over Lydon. Lydon has been so wide open on a number of plays and it must be frustrating for him not to get the ball. Not sure why Gillon would play favorites but it is so obvious to me. Lydon clearly favors Howard. If you don't believe me go back to the games and count how many times they haven't passed Lydon the ball.

I don't mean this to sound personal, but all of those conclusions you reached in that post are wrong. Literally, every single one.

 

[kuethstheman]

Last night's quote by Lydon "I love playing with Frank," SU forward Tyler Lydon said. "I love playing with all our guys, but Frank is a great playmaker. He sees the court really well. He's one of those guys that is always trying to make the right play, whether it's getting it to a big or to a guard. He's just trying to make the right play."

tells me everything I need to know about what has been going on this year. He consistently has not been getting the ball this year from Gillon who clearly favors White and Battle over Lydon. Lydon has been so wide open on a number of plays and it must be frustrating for him not to get the ball. Not sure why Gillon would play favorites but it is so obvious to me. Lydon clearly favors Howard. If you don't believe me go back to the games and count how many times they haven't passed Lydon the ball.

You say Gillon favors White. I say Gillon favors the perimeter pass. I don't think he can see over the top to make a pass to anyone inside. Not even to White.

 

[Newhouser]

I have been impressed that he continues to do the grunt work when not scoring. He was our only rebounder last night, best defender and pretty decent facilitator. Don't get the criticism. We will miss him more next year than either grad transfer.

 

[justgold315]

I'll actually put 95% of the blame on our guards.

I love Lydon and usually agree, but he looked bad last night. I think he is frustrated and losing focus. He gave TT the death stare a few times on D when TT blows coverage or misses the rebound.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

Very similar to what happened with CJ Fair -- who like Lydon, was the ultimate complimentary offensive threat, but struggled as the main guy. Fair had an incredible season in terms of advanced metrics in 2013, when the offense ran through MCW and Triche, but those percentages plummeted the following year when he was the main guy. It wasn't a knock on his talent, it just highlighted that the role he was best suited for was complimentary scorer. Lydon's the same way.

Was looking at this the other day by Win Shares CJ had the 3rd best season of an SU player since 2003 in 2013 at 6.5 (Wes had 6.6 in 2010 and Hak had an incredible 7.5 in 2005). Dropped to 3.8 in 2014, 4th on the team.

By advanced metrics Lydon is having a similarly productive season to last year, though he is offensive numbers have improved while his defensive numbers have regressed.

 

[orangefog]

I love Lydon and usually agree, but he looked bad last night. I think he is frustrated and losing focus. He gave TT the death stare a few times on D when TT blows coverage or misses the rebound.

Good, he should be frustrated. Thompson has a ton of offensive potential, but the kid has very little interest in playing defense or passing the ball. JB must have layed in to him on the sideline, because in the second half, Thompson wasn't about to shoot unless it was at the buzzer. The kid has to learn how to play in an offense. Maybe headfake more. Just kidding. With regard to Lydon, hopefully this is him becoming the leader of this team and he is back next year as an upperclassmen and he takes charge and leads this team from day one.

 

[pearl31]

From where I'm sitting...

Injury(ies?) have definitely lingered enough to hamper him.
Guards (namely, Gillon) have done an awful job getting him the ball at the right times and in the right spots.
(Connected to the point about his injuries) He's played a crazy amount of minutes and is running on fumes right now.
He's just kind of neither here nor there - as pointed out he pretty much can't put the ball on the floor - but he also has a very difficult time posting up/playing physically with bigger guys inside.
His value right now (again, as noted above) does seem to exclusively be defensive rebounding and facilitating offense.

Will be very interesting to see how things play out and whether he's on campus next fall or preparing for his first D-League campaign.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The one play they called a travel on him on the baseline should absolutely have been called a foul. The secondary defender guy slid right in under tyler on that play. I can't remember if he actually had another one.

 

[blust2i3d4]

I realize he is contributing in many ways but honestly, over the last 15 games or so he has been less than stellar to my eye. He plays matador D, constantly travels, cannot put the ball on the floor to save his life at this point and generally makes poor mistakes. Is this all the minutes hes logging? I've just been disappointed with him this season overall. To make matters worse, Im certain hell shortly waltz off to the NBA without scratch this said potential. Battle on the other hand...

He never completely healed. I think it is a good thing for SU because he will come back next year. Then why not finish his degree in four years.

 

[RF2044]

He never completely healed. I think it is a good thing for SU because he will come back next year. Then why not finish his degree in four years.

FWIW, I've heard that he is positioned to graduate after three years [meaning that he'd graduate at the end of 2018]. So if he returned, he'd be able to finish his degree.

In no way suggesting that this factor would outweigh the allure of NBA $$$, but this is bound to be a significant selling point that the coaches will be pitching to the Lydon family as they attempt to "recruit" him back for next season.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

FWIW, I've heard that he is positioned to graduate after three years [meaning that he'd graduate at the end of 2018]. So if he returned, he'd be able to finish his degree.

In no way suggesting that this factor would outweigh the allure of NBA $$$, but this is bound to be a significant selling point that the coaches will be pitching to the Lydon family as they attempt to "recruit" him back for next season.

that is fantastic news. good on you for sharing, and good on him for working that hard.

 

[kuethstheman]

The one play they called a travel on him on the baseline should absolutely have been called a foul. The secondary defender guy slid right in under tyler on that play. I can't remember if he actually had another one.

Thought he traveled before the dribble.

 

[Cheriehoop]

He loses his balance an astonishing number of times each game.

I maintain he has never recovered from the achilles injury he had early this season and is doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

Regardless, he has clearly lost confidence shooting the ball, be it jumpers from the perimeter or shots with his back to the basket in the paint.

It is quite unfortunate.

I agree it appears that something is affecting his feet/ankle/lower leg. He has trouble when planting, pivoting. Amazing how well he's rebounding.

 

[Col. Bleep]

He was sensational in December...especially against G-town.
Calling for the ball, getting it and delivering.
Shortly thereafter getting him the ball in the post seemed to become a low priority.
If it happened it was an accident.

It does seem though that to play in the NBA he needs to improve his strength, quickness and handle.
And lose the mandatory pump fake.

 

[Jasoncuse]

that is fantastic news. good on you for sharing, and good on him for working that hard.

Yeah, assuming RF's info is correct, that's a great job by Lydon. I would guess the summer sessions have helped him and countless others, too.

 

[OttoMets]

The one play they called a travel on him on the baseline should absolutely have been called a foul. The secondary defender guy slid right in under tyler on that play. I can't remember if he actually had another one.

Sequence involving the travel call:

1) Lydon gave the defender a forearm,
2) Defender fouled Lydon,
3) Lydon never traveled,
4) Ref didn't want to decide who fouled whom, so he made up a whistle.

Hate that crap. Wasn't the only time a ref did that last night. (Though Lydon did get away with a couple actual travels.)

 

[Consigliere]

FWIW, I've heard that he is positioned to graduate after three years [meaning that he'd graduate at the end of 2018]. So if he returned, he'd be able to finish his degree.

In no way suggesting that this factor would outweigh the allure of NBA $$$, but this is bound to be a significant selling point that the coaches will be pitching to the Lydon family as they attempt to "recruit" him back for next season.

Seconded. We must be talking to the same old man. ;-)