So, where did it all go so wrong? | Syracusefan.com

So, where did it all go so wrong?

swish7

All Conference
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,670
Like
6,584
Throughout the season, I noticed little things that caused alarm. When you go 25-0 it is pretty ridiculous to whine. But we are now on a 2-7 streak. In our worst swoons, it seems like we would still manage to end the season on at least a 5-5 streak. So, why did this season all go so wrong? What would be the result of a root cause analysis? What is wrong with this team, and when did it start? Because something is seriously wrong.

My earliest spider sense tingles were with the strategy around Fair. I questioned why we spent so many offensive possessions running isos through him. He was and is not Melo. When he isoed, some bad things would happen. Offensive movement would stall. Grant was left without opportunities. Ennis passed up a lot of opportunities and other players to get it to Fair. And Fair would have a couple bad turnovers. Root cause result: Fair is better off as Robin, not as Batman.

I don't recall exactly when it started, but sometime in this last 3rd of the season, Ennis started looking for his own offense. He started pressing matters, and the outcome was mostly positive. There were turnovers the worst of which were against that 9 win team. Root cause: I think he's better now than he was early. He turns it over more, but he creates more and handles duress very well.

Center Play
  • Dajuan. I kept waiting for him to break out. He showed flashes. It would certainly be wonderful to have him now. But, can you truly point to him as a root cause for what is wrong with this team? I think not. JB gave him token starter minutes, but hooked him early. After his injury, we got better for a while.
  • But Rak seriously plateaued. My spidey sense would tingle when Rak would settle for fadeaway jumpers as opposed to attacking the rim. I was told the he always takes those shots and makes them more often than not. So what? It's not good ball for a center, not named Kareem, to do that.
  • In previous years, BMK was an energizer bunny. Through sheer will and effort he could cause something positive to happen. A couple bobbles were easily forgiven because his defense was frustrating the heck out of the other team. Last night, I cannot emphasize how bad it was that he passed up that dunk attempt. It was such a fundamentally unsound play. Let me reiterate, our center passed up a dunk attempt b/c he feared being blocked and instead passed it out, and turned it over.
Root cause result: Despite their McD AA status, our center trio was just not good enough. In the case of Dajuan, his development has been slow, and he continued the snakebitten trend , which started with AO. The other centers have developed very little. Who coaches these guys anyway? Is there lack of development because we don't have Fine?

Grant. It's obvious that he's too weak. He does not have the upper body strength to be a 4o minute threat on the inside. He's very, very athletic and talented. If he stays, and if he gets stronger, he will be a POY candidate like Fair. In my opinion, we should have treated Fair and Grant as equals, in terms of offensive attempts. The earned senior stuff is stupid. Play your best and reward the hardest workers in practice. Root cause: drink more milkshakes, and be treated like the stud he is.

Cooney. Hard worker. Gym rat. Big scorer from a small school. Coached by Gerry. Root cause: Not Gerry. We need a true all around scorer at this position.

Gbinje. He plays his role and gives good effort. You cannot ask for too much more. Root cause: he was allowed to transfer from Duke for a reason. Good role player, but we rely on him too much.

JB: The D was brilliant until the entire conference adjusted to it, and our players became gassed and got injured. He was drug by the ear lobe into playing Roberson. And reverted back to benching him at the first possible moment. He created his plan early. He went all in with Fair, gave major roles to Ennis and Grant, and hoped for the best from the remaining players. He made some adjustments here and there. He asked Ennis to press more. He gave Grant more rope. Practically in desparation, he broke out the press against GT (I believe). It almost got us a victory, but he never used it again. Root cause: he recruited and coached these players. He lost this team at some point, and hasn't won 'em back. He coached tight this year. And has this week, one last attempt, to correct things.

Assistant coaches: Not sure what they do besides looking constipated on the bench. I wish our bigs were more fundamentally sound, and our Cooney knew when and when not to shoot the dagger shot.

Chemistry: It doesn't seem to be off to the degree of a Me-shaun getting a hummer in a 44s bathroom wrong, but something is off. The guys seem to like each other, but there is no emotional leadership. We do not have a killer instinct. We play down or up to the level of our competition. Allowing that to happen is a lack of leadership.

My little, puny coaching experience has taught me one thing: basketball is at once, simple, and extraordinarily complex. All the little stuff, passing, boxing out, drawing fouls, spacing, movement, is really hard to teach. However, as JB once said, it is about getting as close as you can and making a shot. We do not shot well, so we've lost that battle. We also don't do the complex things well.

But in the end, maybe we were never that good. This was a massive wasted opportunity. The best we can hope for is start building positive momentum. I don't see any way to fix this offense. However, if we can regain some of that pre-duke magic on defense, all bets are truly off.
 
I meant to respond - I think this was a really good assessment. I admit I didn't used to enjoy many of your posts but find myself agreeing more often.
 
Law of averages caught up. Everyone has a fresh slate when the tourney begins


868395-photo-of-a-party-popper-shot-on-a-white-background.jpg


My 100th post...yay.
 
Overall good analysis, but you missed the elephant in the room. And that Jumbo was the huge role Jimmy gave to Trevor without any sort of a backup plan if he were to play like he did last year, which is what happened once the conference schedule began. This offense was put together in a way that required us to get 4 or 5 treys per game from the 2G position. When that stopped happening, we stopped scoring and eventually we stopped winning.
 
Throughout the season, I noticed little things that caused alarm. When you go 25-0 it is pretty ridiculous to whine. But we are now on a 2-7 streak. In our worst swoons, it seems like we would still manage to end the season on at least a 5-5 streak. So, why did this season all go so wrong? What would be the result of a root cause analysis? What is wrong with this team, and when did it start? Because something is seriously wrong.

My earliest spider sense tingles were with the strategy around Fair. I questioned why we spent so many offensive possessions running isos through him. He was and is not Melo. When he isoed, some bad things would happen. Offensive movement would stall. Grant was left without opportunities. Ennis passed up a lot of opportunities and other players to get it to Fair. And Fair would have a couple bad turnovers. Root cause result: Fair is better off as Robin, not as Batman.

I don't recall exactly when it started, but sometime in this last 3rd of the season, Ennis started looking for his own offense. He started pressing matters, and the outcome was mostly positive. There were turnovers the worst of which were against that 9 win team. Root cause: I think he's better now than he was early. He turns it over more, but he creates more and handles duress very well.

Center Play
  • Dajuan. I kept waiting for him to break out. He showed flashes. It would certainly be wonderful to have him now. But, can you truly point to him as a root cause for what is wrong with this team? I think not. JB gave him token starter minutes, but hooked him early. After his injury, we got better for a while.
  • But Rak seriously plateaued. My spidey sense would tingle when Rak would settle for fadeaway jumpers as opposed to attacking the rim. I was told the he always takes those shots and makes them more often than not. So what? It's not good ball for a center, not named Kareem, to do that.
  • In previous years, BMK was an energizer bunny. Through sheer will and effort he could cause something positive to happen. A couple bobbles were easily forgiven because his defense was frustrating the heck out of the other team. Last night, I cannot emphasize how bad it was that he passed up that dunk attempt. It was such a fundamentally unsound play. Let me reiterate, our center passed up a dunk attempt b/c he feared being blocked and instead passed it out, and turned it over.
Root cause result: Despite their McD AA status, our center trio was just not good enough. In the case of Dajuan, his development has been slow, and he continued the snakebitten trend , which started with AO. The other centers have developed very little. Who coaches these guys anyway? Is there lack of development because we don't have Fine?

Grant. It's obvious that he's too weak. He does not have the upper body strength to be a 4o minute threat on the inside. He's very, very athletic and talented. If he stays, and if he gets stronger, he will be a POY candidate like Fair. In my opinion, we should have treated Fair and Grant as equals, in terms of offensive attempts. The earned senior stuff is stupid. Play your best and reward the hardest workers in practice. Root cause: drink more milkshakes, and be treated like the stud he is.

Cooney. Hard worker. Gym rat. Big scorer from a small school. Coached by Gerry. Root cause: Not Gerry. We need a true all around scorer at this position.

Gbinje. He plays his role and gives good effort. You cannot ask for too much more. Root cause: he was allowed to transfer from Duke for a reason. Good role player, but we rely on him too much.

JB: The D was brilliant until the entire conference adjusted to it, and our players became gassed and got injured. He was drug by the ear lobe into playing Roberson. And reverted back to benching him at the first possible moment. He created his plan early. He went all in with Fair, gave major roles to Ennis and Grant, and hoped for the best from the remaining players. He made some adjustments here and there. He asked Ennis to press more. He gave Grant more rope. Practically in desparation, he broke out the press against GT (I believe). It almost got us a victory, but he never used it again. Root cause: he recruited and coached these players. He lost this team at some point, and hasn't won 'em back. He coached tight this year. And has this week, one last attempt, to correct things.

Assistant coaches: Not sure what they do besides looking constipated on the bench. I wish our bigs were more fundamentally sound, and our Cooney knew when and when not to shoot the dagger shot.

Chemistry: It doesn't seem to be off to the degree of a Me-shaun getting a hummer in a 44s bathroom wrong, but something is off. The guys seem to like each other, but there is no emotional leadership. We do not have a killer instinct. We play down or up to the level of our competition. Allowing that to happen is a lack of leadership.

My little, puny coaching experience has taught me one thing: basketball is at once, simple, and extraordinarily complex. All the little stuff, passing, boxing out, drawing fouls, spacing, movement, is really hard to teach. However, as JB once said, it is about getting as close as you can and making a shot. We do not shot well, so we've lost that battle. We also don't do the complex things well.

But in the end, maybe we were never that good. This was a massive wasted opportunity. The best we can hope for is start building positive momentum. I don't see any way to fix this offense. However, if we can regain some of that pre-duke magic on defense, all bets are truly off.
With all these "flawed" players we got to number one in the country. Dickie V proclaimed us number one, not that that means much. But it was not all smoke n mirrors. You cant fake it for 25 games. We were legit considering everyone has flaws this yr. Then Keita and Grant (not to mention DC) get injured and we have a thin bench. Go study MSUs season with all their injuries...but you know what. Cuse and MSU still get to lace em up in the tourney. Go Cuse!
 
I think it was those BC. Miami, and VTech games early in the ACC season.. those teams hung around for way too long. We either pulled away comfortably in the last 5 minutes or just got by (like Miami).

The signs were there that we were not great and we knew the schedule was backloaded. I think we wanted to believe the team was really clutch and that thought exploded after the victory over Pitt. But when the same "Magic" happended against NC St some of the fears rose again.

We still went 3-2 in that tough road stretch in February (Pitt, Duke, Virginia, Florida St, Maryland)... I think many of us would have taken that. Just never expected to lose to BC and GTech at home.
 
I meant to respond - I think this was a really good assessment. I admit I didn't used to enjoy many of your posts but find myself agreeing more often.

You didn't like them b/c I can be a posting-douche. I've been trying to do less of that for a few years now. I appreciate your not hitting ignore years ago. But, like anyone, I have my triggers. I'll never be a populist, but came to realize that being grating all the time is tiresome. Just like, IMO, being a pollyanna all the time is delusional.
 
With all these "flawed" players we got to number one in the country. Dickie V proclaimed us number one, not that that means much. But it was not all smoke n mirrors. You cant fake it for 25 games. We were legit considering everyone has flaws this yr. Then Keita and Grant (not to mention DC) get injured and we have a thin bench. Go study MSUs season with all their injuries...but you know what. Cuse and MSU still get to lace em up in the tourney. Go Cuse!

You're right, you can't fake it for 25 games. Which is why last night was so painful. But you can hit miracle shots, turning 2 sure losses into victories. Even with that, the losses to bc and vt make no sense.

We've made no progress "unslumping" our O.
 
well we don't push on transition opportunities. we don't move the ball well enuf in the half court set to create any open shots. and we're shooting roughly 20% deep on a good day.
and that mi amigos is an offensive sinkhole de mayo...


f0a1d3246c98380a719a85962cb2b309.jpg
 
You're right, you can't fake it for 25 games. Which is why last night was so painful. But you can hit miracle shots, turning 2 sure losses into victories. Even with that, the losses to bc and vt make no sense.

We've made no progress "unslumping" our O.
We made the extra pass and the inside out pass in nov, dec and january. We dont anymore (unless you count cooney passing up a wide open three to give it to Tyler at the end last night. )
My own opinion is injuries and the pressure of being number one caught up to us. But we have to get back to unselfish play. Look at the final play last night. It was Tyler driving down, NOT ONE PASS, he jacks up an off balance shot that misses badly and then it was all downhill from there. The selfish play needs to stop. Just let it come to us and play like we did in Maui and pray some shots fall.
 
I feel the same way about Fair that I felt about KJo. Just because he's a senior doesn't mean he needs to be the focal point in the offense, especially when there are two more talented players out there with him. Not to mention CJ is not a good defender or rebounder. People say, we will go as far as CJ takes us. If that's the case, this season will end real quick.

Ennis and Grant need to be the focal points. I honestly think we'd be better letting them run the offense and replacing CJ with a shooter like BJJ but I realize I have an extreme view of CJ and his limitations.

If CJ plays within the offense, he's a weapon but neither he or JB will let that happen.

The more simplistic view of this team.. Cooney needs to shoot better and Rak can't get in foul trouble.
 
I feel the same way about Fair that I felt about KJo. Just because he's a senior doesn't mean he needs to be the focal point in the offense, especially when there are two more talented players out there with him. Not to mention CJ is not a good defender or rebounder. People say, we will go as far as CJ takes us. If that's the case, this season will end real quick.

Ennis and Grant need to be the focal points. I honestly think we'd be better letting them run the offense and replacing CJ with a shooter like BJJ but I realize I have an extreme view of CJ and his limitations.

If CJ plays within the offense, he's a weapon but neither he or JB will let that happen.

The more simplistic view of this team.. Cooney needs to shoot better and Rak can't get in foul trouble.
Better off replacing a 2nd team AA with a kid who has rarely played because he was not physically ready to play this year - and in the limited action he has seen is 6-22 from the field?!?!?! This board has really gone nuts today.
 
Better off replacing a 2nd team AA with a kid who has rarely played because he was not physically ready to play this year - and in the limited action he has seen is 6-22 from the field?!?!?! This board has really gone nuts today.
Is CJ physically ready because TJ Warren straight up punked him last night. CJ is constantly out of position and gets bodied out of rebounds. I'd rather have a shooter in there than him. It's just my opinion.

If Fair was utilized the way he should be, he'd be a beast, but he's not and it hurts our team.
 
So your point is we should have fired JB and hired Pitino?! JB went 48-10 in his first 2 seasons.

Like I said in another thread, "good" is no longer good enough. At what should arguably be the best program in the country from a structural standpoint, JB has one in 38 years.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
1978, the year we let Rick Pitino take the job at Boston U. and we kept JB.
Really? That's the most asinine response imaginable. Given his track record, how long would Pitino have stayed at SU if he had the success you obviously think he would have had? He would have been gone by 1988. We would probably be on the 4th or 5th coach after Pitino. I am not happy with the way this team has played the last 6 weeks, but to say it is because SU chose Boeheim instead of Pitino 35 years ago is just silly.
 
Throughout the season, I noticed little things that caused alarm. When you go 25-0 it is pretty ridiculous to whine. But we are now on a 2-7 streak. In our worst swoons, it seems like we would still manage to end the season on at least a 5-5 streak. So, why did this season all go so wrong? What would be the result of a root cause analysis? What is wrong with this team, and when did it start? Because something is seriously wrong.

My earliest spider sense tingles were with the strategy around Fair. I questioned why we spent so many offensive possessions running isos through him. He was and is not Melo. When he isoed, some bad things would happen. Offensive movement would stall. Grant was left without opportunities. Ennis passed up a lot of opportunities and other players to get it to Fair. And Fair would have a couple bad turnovers. Root cause result: Fair is better off as Robin, not as Batman.

I don't recall exactly when it started, but sometime in this last 3rd of the season, Ennis started looking for his own offense. He started pressing matters, and the outcome was mostly positive. There were turnovers the worst of which were against that 9 win team. Root cause: I think he's better now than he was early. He turns it over more, but he creates more and handles duress very well.

Center Play
  • Dajuan. I kept waiting for him to break out. He showed flashes. It would certainly be wonderful to have him now. But, can you truly point to him as a root cause for what is wrong with this team? I think not. JB gave him token starter minutes, but hooked him early. After his injury, we got better for a while.
  • But Rak seriously plateaued. My spidey sense would tingle when Rak would settle for fadeaway jumpers as opposed to attacking the rim. I was told the he always takes those shots and makes them more often than not. So what? It's not good ball for a center, not named Kareem, to do that.
  • In previous years, BMK was an energizer bunny. Through sheer will and effort he could cause something positive to happen. A couple bobbles were easily forgiven because his defense was frustrating the heck out of the other team. Last night, I cannot emphasize how bad it was that he passed up that dunk attempt. It was such a fundamentally unsound play. Let me reiterate, our center passed up a dunk attempt b/c he feared being blocked and instead passed it out, and turned it over.
Root cause result: Despite their McD AA status, our center trio was just not good enough. In the case of Dajuan, his development has been slow, and he continued the snakebitten trend , which started with AO. The other centers have developed very little. Who coaches these guys anyway? Is there lack of development because we don't have Fine?

Grant. It's obvious that he's too weak. He does not have the upper body strength to be a 4o minute threat on the inside. He's very, very athletic and talented. If he stays, and if he gets stronger, he will be a POY candidate like Fair. In my opinion, we should have treated Fair and Grant as equals, in terms of offensive attempts. The earned senior stuff is stupid. Play your best and reward the hardest workers in practice. Root cause: drink more milkshakes, and be treated like the stud he is.

Cooney. Hard worker. Gym rat. Big scorer from a small school. Coached by Gerry. Root cause: Not Gerry. We need a true all around scorer at this position.

Gbinje. He plays his role and gives good effort. You cannot ask for too much more. Root cause: he was allowed to transfer from Duke for a reason. Good role player, but we rely on him too much.

JB: The D was brilliant until the entire conference adjusted to it, and our players became gassed and got injured. He was drug by the ear lobe into playing Roberson. And reverted back to benching him at the first possible moment. He created his plan early. He went all in with Fair, gave major roles to Ennis and Grant, and hoped for the best from the remaining players. He made some adjustments here and there. He asked Ennis to press more. He gave Grant more rope. Practically in desparation, he broke out the press against GT (I believe). It almost got us a victory, but he never used it again. Root cause: he recruited and coached these players. He lost this team at some point, and hasn't won 'em back. He coached tight this year. And has this week, one last attempt, to correct things.

Assistant coaches: Not sure what they do besides looking constipated on the bench. I wish our bigs were more fundamentally sound, and our Cooney knew when and when not to shoot the dagger shot.

Chemistry: It doesn't seem to be off to the degree of a Me-shaun getting a hummer in a 44s bathroom wrong, but something is off. The guys seem to like each other, but there is no emotional leadership. We do not have a killer instinct. We play down or up to the level of our competition. Allowing that to happen is a lack of leadership.

My little, puny coaching experience has taught me one thing: basketball is at once, simple, and extraordinarily complex. All the little stuff, passing, boxing out, drawing fouls, spacing, movement, is really hard to teach. However, as JB once said, it is about getting as close as you can and making a shot. We do not shot well, so we've lost that battle. We also don't do the complex things well.

But in the end, maybe we were never that good. This was a massive wasted opportunity. The best we can hope for is start building positive momentum. I don't see any way to fix this offense. However, if we can regain some of that pre-duke magic on defense, all bets are truly off.
We did go 5-5 in our last 10. That said I agree with what you're saying.
 
Is CJ physically ready because TJ Warren straight up punked him last night. CJ is constantly out of position and gets bodied out of rebounds. I'd rather have a shooter in there than him. It's just my opinion.

If Fair was utilized the way he should be, he'd be a beast, but he's not and it hurts our team.

He just isn't someone who should be playing full games (and certainly not as the focus of our offense).

Roberson -- a player with real offensive skills -- should have been integrated into the lineup from the get-go, playing 20 minutes a game and spelling both forwards for stretches. I was concerned in November and December that this was not sustainable - Fair and Grant were not, in my opinion, talented enough to get us through six games at the end of the year. That assessment stands - for this team to reach its potential, they need help. Without a third forward, this team would need a streak of perfect basketball to win a championship. That's too much to ask.
 
FWIW, I agree with a lot of the OP. But looking at it from a macro point I think to answer "where it all went wrong" you have to look at factors well beyond this season:

- The Bernie Fine scandal costing us our only big man coach. I have no idea how good of a coach he was but we have had a run of MCD AA big men with all of the talent in the world who haven't improved one iota in their 4 years here.
- The day JB decided his schtick was the 2-3 zone and that's it and started recruiting long and rangy fast twitch explosive "athletes" for the zone rather than basketball players... you know guys who can actually put the ball in the hoop. It's inexcusable in this day an age that a top 5 program like ours which selects players only has ONE guy who can shoot. We haven't recruited a good scorer since Dion... and before that it was Devo, Flynn and Green. I personally blame this on the ill fated dynasty era which cause JB to go all in on the D. He stopped wanting to deal with the egos that tend to come with really skilled scorers.
- The day GMAC and Melo won us a title... That season convinced JB to move away from ball-movement and more to a craptastic combo of one on one scoring and screens to free up a shooter. Well guess what when you don't have Melo (or Dion) and you don't have GMAC our offense stinks. There is zero ball movement, zero creativity, zero anything beyond run off of turnovers or long misses the zone causes. Another guess what... if you can't rebound on D or if your point guard stinks in the open floor you are not going to do much in transition.
- The day 30 or 40 years ago JB decided it wasn't worth his time to develop a bench and that "with all these timeouts, kids don't need a rest and can play all day"... this I believe has been JB's #1 weakness in his storied hall of fame career.

I think all of the macro factors have resulted in this perfect storm which has caused us to have a pretty non-satisfying stretch run. Having said all that that, if Coonecy gets hot, we are going to make the final four... such is the state of college basketball this year. I applaud the heart of this team in going 25-0 which is an amazing feat given the limits of this team.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
169,670
Messages
4,844,564
Members
5,981
Latest member
SYRtoBOS

Online statistics

Members online
208
Guests online
1,595
Total visitors
1,803


...
Top Bottom