Some people are not going to like this | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com
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Some people are not going to like this

David321 said:
I'll tell you who wouldn't like this thread, Fran Brown. And probably anyone else on the team.
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"I would never be satisfied with 2nd or 3rd place, that is like losers mentality." ~ Fran Brown

I can only imagine what HCFB thinks of this thread.
 
JeremyCuse said:
There's good points being made on both sides here but people are also falling into the same trap they did in 2019 after Babers won 10 games. Now I am not comparing Dino to Fran, I think Fran clearly has shown an ability to recruit at levels Dino simply couldn't dream of and 10 wins in 1st year (albeit against a lighter schedule when you look at our OOC but still) shows he will likely will be the better overall coach as well.

However, just like in 2019 there appears to be a number of people who think we can replicate the prior 10 win season or will have 8+ wins just because of how last year went. That's simply not how this works. This year schedule is infinitely harder and SU has to essentially redo the entire offense from a skill position standpoint or close to it. Most importantly this team doesn't have Kyle MCcord or its top 4 playmakers that is a huge burden to overcome. SU's made strides already under Fran but were not Bama, PSU or Clemson, we just don't reload at least not yet. This team getting to 7-5 this year would be a huge accomplishment when you look at how tough the schedule is this year with zero gimmies beyond Colgate, even Uconn will be a battle.

I hope people will adjust their expectations as I fear there's going to be a lot of fans facing a reality check next fall especially if this team ends up at .500 which would not be a huge surprise even if they played reasonably well.
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Happy to elaborate more on why I think to the OP of 6-6 being a big success got me so fired up

It came less than 24 hours after the biggest verbal we've gotten in 20+ years. I understand that's not a signed NLI but still

'Falling into the same trap' is silly. Yes we won 10 games in 2018 and there are parallels to the 2024 team but you killed that narative right away because Fran is not Dino. However, yes this schedule on paper is going to be a top 10 most difficult in the country and 2019 was like mid to late 70s for toughness. I get the arguments being made and understand the concerns, but the timing of this OP was so so bad.

I don't think we do X because of last year. I look at truly a 1st year coaching staff completely blowing expectations out of the water. 1st time HC. 1st time play-calling OC AND DC. I see what they did in 1 year and get so excited for year 2.

A 'big success' is 10+ wins. The timing trying to let all the air out of the sails saying 6-6 is a big success is just sad. The football board was so enthused and energized and then we get posters saying our goal is the pinstripe bowl

We went 5-7 in 2019. 1 game better than that in 2025 is not a big success.
 


I’m just going to leave this here. Very strange waters that I think the program has much higher expectations than some of its fan base. I get why people want to pump the breaks. I want to make it clear I wouldn’t turn on Fran Brown if we went 1-11 next season, since I think 11 out of our 12 opponents are good football teams with talent and good coaches. Some more than others. Now maybe 1-11 and struggling really bad during the games may make me think about it. I can see us going 1-11 to 12-0. I’m just approaching this season being a fan of Syracuse and not a college football analyst.
 
UnknownOrange said:
Happy to elaborate more on why I think to the OP of 6-6 being a big success got me so fired up

It came less than 24 hours after the biggest verbal we've gotten in 20+ years. I understand that's not a signed NLI but still

'Falling into the same trap' is silly. Yes we won 10 games in 2018 and there are parallels to the 2024 team but you killed that narative right away because Fran is not Dino. However, yes this schedule on paper is going to be a top 10 most difficult in the country and 2019 was like mid to late 70s for toughness. I get the arguments being made and understand the concerns, but the timing of this OP was so so bad.

I don't think we do X because of last year. I look at truly a 1st year coaching staff completely blowing expectations out of the water. 1st time HC. 1st time play-calling OC AND DC. I see what they did in 1 year and get so excited for year 2.

A 'big success' is 10+ wins. The timing trying to let all the air out of the sails saying 6-6 is a big success is just sad. The football board was so enthused and energized and then we get posters saying our goal is the pinstripe bowl

We went 5-7 in 2019. 1 game better than that in 2025 is not a big success.
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Nixon is not a 1st time OC, he had 3 years at Baylor. Last year we had almost no depth, because of all the young people Fran brought in. But a lot of young players got experience, and the measurables of the players size and speed is much better then past recruiting.
The staff has a full year together, much better depth especially on the DL.
And the Special teams were terrible, couldn't kick extra points or field goals and still won 10 games.
I still expect 8 or 9 wins , better coaching, more depth and until the games are played the first week you really don't know how tough the schedule is.
 
UnknownOrange said:
Happy to elaborate more on why I think to the OP of 6-6 being a big success got me so fired up

It came less than 24 hours after the biggest verbal we've gotten in 20+ years. I understand that's not a signed NLI but still

'Falling into the same trap' is silly. Yes we won 10 games in 2018 and there are parallels to the 2024 team but you killed that narative right away because Fran is not Dino. However, yes this schedule on paper is going to be a top 10 most difficult in the country and 2019 was like mid to late 70s for toughness. I get the arguments being made and understand the concerns, but the timing of this OP was so so bad.

I don't think we do X because of last year. I look at truly a 1st year coaching staff completely blowing expectations out of the water. 1st time HC. 1st time play-calling OC AND DC. I see what they did in 1 year and get so excited for year 2.

A 'big success' is 10+ wins. The timing trying to let all the air out of the sails saying 6-6 is a big success is just sad. The football board was so enthused and energized and then we get posters saying our goal is the pinstripe bowl

We went 5-7 in 2019. 1 game better than that in 2025 is not a big success.
Expand...

I understand that you feel the timing was a bit off but your talking about a recruit who will have zero impact on this season. It's simply coincidental on the timing I wouldn't read anything into it especially with the season less then 2 months away. Talking about this years outcome does nothing to let the sails out of landing an unbelieve recruit. It's the reality of where we are on the calendar.

I don't think saying 6-6 is a big success, I think 8-4 would be for sure and I think you can even make an argument for 7-5 depending on how some of our opponents do. I totally agree Fran is a much better coach then Dino (or has at least been so far) but Fran isn't playing on Saturdays, SU still has to replace a huge number of impact players especially on offense, it's very hard to do that unless your a blue blood and as good a job as Fran has done so far recruiting SU is clearly nowhere near that point yet. Giving an opinion on where SU may end up after this season isn't "letting the wind out of the sails" its in his opinion and I think others including myself taking a realistic look at how things could play out.

Comparing 2019 to 2025 isn't apples to oranges when you look at the schedule. Playing so many difficult road games and playing essentially on the road vs Tenn to start is asking a lot of any team especially one replacing so many key players on offense that Syracuse is. I certainly hope we can have another big year but I again encourage you to also keep expectations in check, this team could play fairly well and struggle to get above .500.
 
orangecuse said:

"I would never be satisfied with 2nd or 3rd place, that is like losers mentality." ~ Fran Brown

I can only imagine what HCFB thinks of this thread.
Expand...

Of course he's pursuing a 1st place finish/national tile, what coach isn't? What coach is going to openly admit that they may have some struggles with a new year and different players? I don't want Fran to hope for 3rd place but that doesn't mean that when you take a look at the schedule you can see a 1st place finish isn't remotely realistic.
 
AngryOtto said:
I would not say last years schedule was weak. 9 teams we played went to a bowl. I believe we were in top three teams that played bowl eligible teams.
This year on paper seems real difficult but again that’s on paper. We have no idea the product the teams put out or the strides Syracuse has made in the off season.
Concerning Fran and an extension. Based on recruiting alone I would extend him. Add in his community outreach, work ethic and player development both on and off the field I would get it done now. I know people are gun shy because of Dino but there is a clear difference between Fran and Dino.
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I would be very open to extending Fran but I would like to see how at least the first half of the schedule plays out first. He's done an unreal job so far so I don't have any issue if they want to do it now but I also think if SU gets off to a crazy start you can get something done before the season is over to ensure he is locked in versus waiting another year if there are some struggles.
 
We find out pretty fast how good the Nixon system is. For sur Kyle drove it. but a QB that was playing traditional QB style still needs a solid system. We didnt have Lamaar back there saving 40% of the plays.

Can we get about 75% of the QB reads done as well and some level of accuracy?

Can we get better oline play so we don't have to run the quick read every time or the check down

Can we get a few more home run plays to get a few more scores that dont require sequencing 15 plays together.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Of course he's pursuing a 1st place finish/national tile, what coach isn't? What coach is going to openly admit that they may have some struggles with a new year and different players? I don't want Fran to hope for 3rd place but that doesn't mean that when you take a look at the schedule you can see a 1st place finish isn't remotely realistic.
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Serious. Every coach should strive to be undefeated. After G-Rob, Marrone taught fans that it is possible to have a different game plan for next week's opponent. I remember us not getting embarrassed by Penn State and thinking "progress." But we also did not have to play Penn State five times.

But this schedule is just absurd for a non-elite team. I am sorry, it just is. If McCord and one other skill player had come back, then I think we would have reason for fan optimism. But we swap Ohio (H) for Tennessee (N), we swap UNLV (A) for Notre Dame (A), we swap Cal (A) for SMU (A), BC (A) for Clemson (A)... and so on.
 
JeremyCuse said:
I understand that you feel the timing was a bit off but your talking about a recruit who will have zero impact on this season. It's simply coincidental on the timing I wouldn't read anything into it especially with the season less then 2 months away. Talking about this years outcome does nothing to let the sails out of landing an unbelieve recruit. It's the reality of where we are on the calendar.

I don't think saying 6-6 is a big success, I think 8-4 would be for sure and I think you can even make an argument for 7-5 depending on how some of our opponents do. I totally agree Fran is a much better coach then Dino (or has at least been so far) but Fran isn't playing on Saturdays, SU still has to replace a huge number of impact players especially on offense, it's very hard to do that unless your a blue blood and as good a job as Fran has done so far recruiting SU is clearly nowhere near that point yet. Giving an opinion on where SU may end up after this season isn't "letting the wind out of the sails" its in his opinion and I think others including myself taking a realistic look at how things could play out.

Comparing 2019 to 2025 isn't apples to oranges when you look at the schedule. Playing so many difficult road games and playing essentially on the road vs Tenn to start is asking a lot of any team especially one replacing so many key players on offense that Syracuse is. I certainly hope we can have another big year but I again encourage you to also keep expectations in check, this team could play fairly well and struggle to get above .500.
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Absolutely agree to most of this other than 'coincidental timing'

this is a february/march conversation to me -- not one to strike out out of thin air the day after a big recruiting win
 
baggerbob said:
Nixon is not a 1st time OC, he had 3 years at Baylor. Last year we had almost no depth, because of all the young people Fran brought in. But a lot of young players got experience, and the measurables of the players size and speed is much better then past recruiting.
The staff has a full year together, much better depth especially on the DL.
And the Special teams were terrible, couldn't kick extra points or field goals and still won 10 games.
I still expect 8 or 9 wins , better coaching, more depth and until the games are played the first week you really don't know how tough the schedule is.
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1st time as a play calling OC. He was co-OC at baylor (not to diminish his resume, but 2024 the reigns were all his for the first time)
 
UnknownOrange said:
Happy to elaborate more on why I think to the OP of 6-6 being a big success got me so fired up

It came less than 24 hours after the biggest verbal we've gotten in 20+ years. I understand that's not a signed NLI but still

'Falling into the same trap' is silly. Yes we won 10 games in 2018 and there are parallels to the 2024 team but you killed that narative right away because Fran is not Dino. However, yes this schedule on paper is going to be a top 10 most difficult in the country and 2019 was like mid to late 70s for toughness. I get the arguments being made and understand the concerns, but the timing of this OP was so so bad.

I don't think we do X because of last year. I look at truly a 1st year coaching staff completely blowing expectations out of the water. 1st time HC. 1st time play-calling OC AND DC. I see what they did in 1 year and get so excited for year 2.

A 'big success' is 10+ wins. The timing trying to let all the air out of the sails saying 6-6 is a big success is just sad. The football board was so enthused and energized and then we get posters saying our goal is the pinstripe bowl

We went 5-7 in 2019. 1 game better than that in 2025 is not a big success.
Expand...
Offended over timing. It’s possible to carry multiple threads at once.

There’s also nothing wrong with taking an objective look at the upcoming season at anytime.

The one way this isn’t a season long struggle is if the three transfer linemen play up to their 4/5 star HS ratings.

Collins is a replacement level guy for Reed. The other three need to perform much better than they gave to date in college.
 
I like the creativity I saw from Nixon enough to think the offense should be solid despite all the pieces we lost. That is assuming the OL isn't dreadful which you never know with that group.

I have no confidence in the defense. I don't think the DC is good at his job. I'll believe it when I see it.

Special teams was historically terrible at the start of the year but I think they turned it around by the end. Just don't be historically terrible.

The schedule is tougher definitely. 6 or 7 wins would be a good season assuming we don't get blown out by 4 TDs against all the playoff teams. Play them competitively, maybe sneak a win or two out.

I think people expecting 8 or more are kind of downplaying how great McCord and the offense were last season. A bit rude imo.
 
GoSU96 said:
Offended over timing. It’s possible to carry multiple threads at once.

There’s also nothing wrong with taking an objective look at the upcoming season at anytime.

The one way this isn’t a season long struggle is if the three transfer linemen play up to their 4/5 star HS ratings.

Collins is a replacement level guy for Reed. The other three need to perform much better than they gave to date in college.
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And there’s nothing wrong that my definition of a big success isn’t 6-6 record.

Offended at the timing - if you want to call it that sure. Just find it odd you brought it up within 24 hours like we needed some deflating
 
orange_in_VA said:
I expect the offense to regress a bit but really hopeful the defense somehow gets better. If the defense is as bad as last year and the offense is worse it's gonna be a long season. I'm very excited about the young talent on this team but they are young. Anything better than 6 wins with this schedule is a great segway into 2026 when we should have one of the highest rates of returning production (assuming top players don't transfer out).
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If the defense is as bad as last year then ERob needs to move on.
 
dwilmont44 said:
I like the creativity I saw from Nixon enough to think the offense should be solid despite all the pieces we lost. That is assuming the OL isn't dreadful which you never know with that group.

I have no confidence in the defense. I don't think the DC is good at his job. I'll believe it when I see it.

Special teams was historically terrible at the start of the year but I think they turned it around by the end. Just don't be historically terrible.

The schedule is tougher definitely. 6 or 7 wins would be a good season assuming we don't get blown out by 4 TDs against all the playoff teams. Play them competitively, maybe sneak a win or two out.

I think people expecting 8 or more are kind of downplaying how great McCord and the offense were last season. A bit rude imo.
Expand...

Right on. I get the concerns -- and not just about the schedule. We have a LOT of unknowns / question marks right now, across MANY positional units:
  • Losing the most prolific QB in program history
  • Losing a stud RB who had 1000+ yards rushing / 500+ yards receiving [only achieved something like 6 times since 2000 in college football]
  • Losing the top three WRs [counting OG here]
  • OL turnover
  • Losing a key DT
  • Losing our most versatile rush specialist
  • Losing our best LB
  • Losing several key players in the secondary

So on paper, massive losses on both sides of the ball. So I get why the pundits and people who don't follow the team as closely as we do would have doubts.

However, we have potential answers to each of those question marks:
  • Angeli could be ready to break out, and could be poised to thrive in our system
  • Willis gained experience last year, and is bigger than Allen
  • Return several key WRs ready to step up, and got two key portal transfers [including a 5 star]
  • Landed several portal transfer OL, who COULD [emphasis on "could"] improve the unit
  • We brought in two experienced portal transfer DTs, who could IMPROVE the DT unit
  • Brought in a productive portal transfer who is similar to Diggs [probably not as good]
  • Brought in a stud LB portal transfer, who was prolific at a lower level conference
  • Safety experience could stabilize the secondary, and we have recruited well here [HS and portal]

But those things are unproven until they prove it on the field. So... it isn't hopeless. We just need some things to fall into place favorably, which certainly could happen -- but also isn't a guarantee.

I believe in Fran. And it looks like on paper we re-stocked. But we really won't know until the Tennessee game.
 
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UnknownOrange said:
Happy to elaborate more on why I think to the OP of 6-6 being a big success got me so fired up

It came less than 24 hours after the biggest verbal we've gotten in 20+ years. I understand that's not a signed NLI but still

'Falling into the same trap' is silly. Yes we won 10 games in 2018 and there are parallels to the 2024 team but you killed that narative right away because Fran is not Dino. However, yes this schedule on paper is going to be a top 10 most difficult in the country and 2019 was like mid to late 70s for toughness. I get the arguments being made and understand the concerns, but the timing of this OP was so so bad.

I don't think we do X because of last year. I look at truly a 1st year coaching staff completely blowing expectations out of the water. 1st time HC. 1st time play-calling OC AND DC. I see what they did in 1 year and get so excited for year 2.

A 'big success' is 10+ wins. The timing trying to let all the air out of the sails saying 6-6 is a big success is just sad. The football board was so enthused and energized and then we get posters saying our goal is the pinstripe bowl

We went 5-7 in 2019. 1 game better than that in 2025 is not a big success.
Expand...
I agree,their running of the program and recruiting were both excellent right from the get go... Their play calling and in game coaching was generally "good enough" but not great for much of the season. Then came the first quarter of the Miami game where we got punched in the mouth.

That was the turning point for me where all my expectations of future success derives. They came back and beat a very good team after digging a very big hole.

The pounding of an undermanned team in the bowl helped cement that excitement, because it was a very businesslike beating of a team we were supposed to beat. But they did it with an eye to the future. Lots of young guys that had redshirts going or players that hadn't played much got some snaps and even with that effort to work in some newer players, the whole team took care of business anyway.
 
RF2044 said:
Right on. I get the concerns -- and not just about the schedule. We have a LOT of unknowns / question marks right now, across MANY positional units:
  • Losing the most prolific QB in program history
  • Losing a stud RB who had 1000+ yards rushing / 500+ yards receiving [only achieved something like 6 times since 2000 in college football]
  • Losing the top three WRs [counting OG here]
  • OL turnover
  • Losing a key DT
  • Losing our most versatile rush specialist
  • Losing our best LB
  • Losing several key players in the secondary

So on paper, massive losses on both sides of the ball. So I get why the pundits and people who don't follow the team as closely as we do would have doubts.

However, we have potential answers to each of those question marks:
  • Angeli could be ready to break out, and could be poised to thrive in our system
  • Willis gained experience last year, and is bigger than Allen
  • Return several key WRs ready to step up, and got two key portal transfers [including a 5 star]
  • Landed several portal transfer OL, who COULD [emphasis on "could"] improve the unit
  • We brought in two experienced portal transfer DTs, who could IMPROVE the DT unit
  • Brought in a productive portal transfer who is similar to Diggs [probably not as good]
  • Brought in a stud LB portal transfer, who was prolific at a lower level conference
  • Safety experience could stabilize the secondary, and we have recruited well here [HS and portal]

But those things are unproven until they prove it on the field. So... it isn't hopeless. We just need some things to fall into place favorably, which certainly could happen -- but also isn't a guarantee.

I believe in Fran. And it looks like on paper we re-stocked. But we really won't know until the Tennessee game.
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and there it is....was trying to put into words or paper (computer) to my out of town friends what to maybe expect this year and here it is! Thank you my friend for doing the hard lifting and leg work, gonna steal this post and link it to many going forward and I give you a big hearty "thank you" my good man! Good stuff, lol
 
Cuseregular said:
and there it is...was trying to put into words or paper (computer) to my out of town friends what to maybe expect this year and here it is! Thank you my friend for doing the hard lifting and leg work, gonna steal this post and link it to many going forward and I give you a big hearty "thank you" my good man! Good stuff, lol
Expand...
That's why all the woe is me, about the schedule being so tough is premature. Fran's recruiting is nothing like Dino's. Fran expects the players who have had a year in the system to step in and produce.
Dino was always 2 or 3 years down the road, maybe they will.
 
baggerbob said:
That's why all the woe is me, about the schedule being so tough is premature. Fran's recruiting is nothing like Dino's. Fran expects the players who have had a year in the system to step in and produce.
Dino was always 2 or 3 years down the road, maybe they will.
Expand...
With all due respect, that isn’t accurate

Last year was about three things:

1. a unicorn 4th Qb
2. a schedule full of peer teams and zero physical heavyweights that would wear on the team
3. a team built around 3 and 4 year starters

There wasn’t one team on the schedule last year that was coming off a top 15 season, this year there are 4 playoff teams and Miami that just missed. There’s nothing premature about projecting the difficulty of the schedule vs last year.

Last years team was not 1 year players contributing a great deal. Last year the only kids that would fit that description would be Gill, Watson, Willis, and Kerr

Based on his transfer portal activity he isn’t relying on 1st or 2nd year guys this year either.
 
GoSU96 said:
But the Theme of the year is Survive in 25.

6-6 will be a big success this year.

The loss of returning starts, production, and leadership cannot be emphasized enough.

I believe this year is about building the core for next year. There is a lot of potential on the roster, but it’s a huge ask to expect a winning season against this schedule.

2026 is the year to thrive. ND, Clemson, SMU, Louisville, Cal, Toledo, New Hampshire at home. BC, Pitt, UNC, UVA, UConn on the road. Great home schedule, manageable road schedule. OL gels this year, find a Qb, influx of some high end depth in the 26 class and it could be an all timer.
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Agreed. But we'll see. We have a lot of talent on this team but except for a few starters not much experience, especially at the most important position QB.
Maybe we get a few unexpected wins and get to a bowl and perhaps one of the two Angeli /Collins will show out and we have more than enough games for a bowl. We're going to find out.
Experience and seeing which players handle this schedule well will determine a lot.
Hopefully there are not a plethora of injuries, and we go into 2026 with confidence knowing who can play SU Football.
 
I haven’t always agreed with takes from GoSU96 but have to say I think he’s locked in here.

But it’s good that people are challenging him. Shows some pride returning to the program.
 
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