Some People Aren't Going to Like Hearing This...

[baggerbob]

Need to have receivers, who can make plays in the red zone. West before this year 85 catches 4 touch downs, now is 4 in 101. Need to get Custis, Enoicy playing time, so we can use their size in the red zone, 6-6-230, 6-5-225, those are targets to throw to in the end zone. West besides not being a blocker, made a big mistake on the 2 point try. Hunt rolls right, and he runs his route short of the end zone at the 1, and gets tackled.

 

[sufandu]

Completely agree with your sentiment relative to how and why major upsets generally happen. However, we did capitalize on some of those turnovers purely by gaining possession. That first turnover came deep into our territory, If I recall, Colson fumbled at our 10-15 yard line. If he hadn't fumbled there, it appeared very likely that ND would've punched it in for a TD, and an early 7-0 lead. So, by getting that turnover, it saved us 7 points. I believe that 2nd turnover was also in our territory, albeit, not as deep. Same argument there...that turnover likely saved us another ND score of some sort...So, we did actually capitalize or benefit to some extent. I get we didn't convert those into points, but it wasn't like those turnovers happened in the red zone, etc. and we came out goose eggs...just my $.02. :noidea:

I can see looking at it that way. I don't really think of that as taking advantage. All that is doing is lessening the blowout. Without converting those turnovers into points, it makes the game 31-15 instead of 45-15. Not much of a difference really.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Think Millhouse took care of it but I think it comes down to taking a shot in the end zone whenever possible. Seems like we get down inside the 30 and the play calling is designed to get us the FG instead of taking a shot. Did we ever attempt a pass into the end zone in the first three quarters? Coach scared play scared.

That's a different thing than what I thought you were talking about, and I agree and have posted the same sentiment before that we need to throw the ball right in to the end zone more often.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

a) those passes were not downfield
a2) those passes were not playaction
a3) i don't want to redo my abcds
b) those plays were longer than 3rd and 1
c) you are horrible in every way
d) reread c

Not every way.

 

[anomander]

Everyone here takes such a depressing view… I thought we played very well and competed. Lots of positives

Depressing view? Played well? What!!!

I call it like I see it. I am positive when I see positive, and negative when I see negative. I don't stick to the same old shtick like 90% of the people here. People aren't blind the same people are always positive, the same people are always negative, and a few call it like they see it.

I'm sorry, but if you think there is anything positive to take out of the last game, or anything positive to take out of this entire season then I am afraid you fall into the always positive group. There were few people more excited, and with higher expectations for this season then me. I thought we had the potential to win 8 games, and be competitive in almost every single game. Obviously that hasn't been the case, starting with the pathetic opening performance against Nova, who we clearly had far more talent then. Hell I wouldn't even be so frustrated if we were just playing well. The undisciplined play is what gets me the most. 4 more false starts Saturday night, and 10 more penalties for the game. When we apparently have such glaring talent deficiencies that is totally unacceptable. That is what you call controlling the controlable. But then again I think that goes in line with the constant over celebration while the game is out of reach (Rob Welsh pounding his helmet late in the 4th after making his first play in about 3 games comes to mind).

So call it depressing if you want, i'm calling it frustration of watching a team with potential not improving at all. And the day I come away with a positive view of what I witnessed Saturday is the day I stop supporting the program because all that means is we accepted to be a mediocore at best program.

 

[eddie in nc]

That's a different thing than what I thought you were talking about, and I agree and have posted the same sentiment before that we need to throw the ball right in to the end zone more often.

On a third and less than a yard down 20 near the opponents 30 - you need to be play actioning and taking a shot down the field and then coming back on 4th to get stuffed. Especially with our predictable tendencies.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Is this really news? We don't have much talent... but we have done more with less. Also, it is on an upward trend, as was already stated.

I can certainly see how n NFL scout would say these things, especially put up against Notre Dame. They are Notre Dame after all. They get Top 10 recruiting classes every single year.

I was sitting in the 1st row behind one of the endzones last night. When they got to my side of the field, the difference in size of the linemen was drastic, to say the least. Each position it looked like they had 20-30 lb advantages.

My main concern right now is the coaching way before the talent. As I said, we have done more with less. I always liked Shafer, but as of right now, I am not convinced that he is the guy. But who knows, I felt the same way about Marrone after his first 2 years, so they could get better.

Imagine Crume 3 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier and having 4+ of him to rotate. That's essentially what we face against these upper level teams. I love Crume as a player but we need a few more of him. Same thing with Bromley last last season, Art Jones, etc. If we could get a few DT's of the like in the same recruiting cycle we'd be in business. If we could get DE's that are both big enough and fast enough vs one or the other that would be ideal as well.

 

[Alsacs]

Depressing view? Played well? What!!!

I call it like I see it. I am positive when I see positive, and negative when I see negative. I don't stick to the same old shtick like 90% of the people here. People aren't blind the same people are always positive, the same people are always negative, and a few call it like they see it.

I'm sorry, but if you think there is anything positive to take out of the last game, or anything positive to take out of this entire season then I am afraid you fall into the always positive group. There were few people more excited, and with higher expectations for this season then me. I thought we had the potential to win 8 games, and be competitive in almost every single game. Obviously that hasn't been the case, starting with the pathetic opening performance against Nova, who we clearly had far more talent then. Hell I wouldn't even be so frustrated if we were just playing well. The undisciplined play is what gets me the most. 4 more false starts Saturday night, and 10 more penalties for the game. When we apparently have such glaring talent deficiencies that is totally unacceptable. That is what you call controlling the controlable. But then again I think that goes in line with the constant over celebration while the game is out of reach (Rob Welsh pounding his helmet late in the 4th after making his first play in about 3 games comes to mind).

So call it depressing if you want, i'm calling it frustration of watching a team with potential not improving at all. And the day I come away with a positive view of what I witnessed Saturday is the day I stop supporting the program because all that means is we accepted to be a mediocore at best program.

Our offense scored 9 points and our defense have up 31 points while forcing 5 turnovers and we played well. It was so bad that Fowler showed a clip from the 1992 Ohio State-Syracuse game that Herbstreit started to show we were relevant in the past. Herbie in a completely fair and respectful way destroyed our lack of talent. He said we need more Erv Philips on offense.

 

[eddie in nc]

On a third and less than a yard down 20 near the opponents 30 - you need to be play actioning and taking a shot down the field and then coming back on 4th to get stuffed. Especially with our predictable tendencies.

All that said, McD is only in his second year but I'm not sure I see where he is going. I even gave Hackett a break in his first couple of seasons because I liked some of his intermittent artful play calling. But I'm not sure I see anything clever with McD. We shall see.

 

[anomander]

Our offense scored 9 points and our defense have up 31 points while forcing 5 turnovers and we played well. It was so bad that Fowler showed a clip from the 1992 Ohio State-Syracuse game that Herbstreit started to show we were relevant in the past. Herbie in a completely fair and respectful way destroyed our lack of talent. He said we need more Erv Philips on offense.

I totally agree with that. Erv is the only play maker I see on the team right now. If we burned his redshirt then don't waste the year. Design some plays and get him the rock. I don't want to hear he's not physically ready. If he wasn't physically ready then you should have redshirted him.

 

[Alsacs]

Imagine Crume 3 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier and having 4+ of him to rotate. That's essentially what we face against these upper level teams. I love Crume as a player but we need a few more of him. Same thing with Bromley last last season, Art Jones, etc. If we could get a few DT's of the like in the same recruiting cycle we'd be in business. If we could get DE's that are both big enough and fast enough vs one or the other that would be ideal as well.

Syracuse football reminds of Newcastle FC in the EPL. Both teams were top half of their sport. Newcastle used to be a contender at the top of the table. The GRob era was like when Newcastle got relegated out of the EPL. However, Newcastle has come back to the EPL and are now bottom half table team like Syracuse has become a 6-7 win and bowl team. Neither side has the talent to compete with the top teams constantly.

Now back to SU FB talk.

 

[Ozcuse]

All that said, McD is only in his second year but I'm not sure I see where he is going. I even gave Hackett a break in his first couple of seasons because I liked some of his intermittent artful play calling. But I'm not sure I see anything clever with McD. We shall see.

4 games in and our starting QB is still tied with our punter for TD passes (1) this season.

couchburn :bang:

 

[jec1521]

I totally agree with that. Erv is the only play maker I see on the team right now. If we burned his redshirt then don't waste the year. Design some plays and get him the rock. I don't want to hear he's not physically ready. If he wasn't physically ready then you should have redshirted him.

Ishmael looks decent for a frosh to my untrained eyes. I can definitely see a difference in the bodies/talent we are getting.

 

[rrlbees]

Need to have receivers, who can make plays in the red zone. West before this year 85 catches 4 touch downs, now is 4 in 101. Need to get Custis, Enoicy playing time, so we can use their size in the red zone, 6-6-230, 6-5-225, those are targets to throw to in the end zone. West besides not being a blocker, made a big mistake on the 2 point try. Hunt rolls right, and he runs his route short of the end zone at the 1, and gets tackled.

What plays do we run in the red zone? Everyone claims Broyld is a playmaker, yet he has 1 TD and that was a run.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Syracuse football reminds of Newcastle FC in the EPL. Both teams were top half of their sport. Newcastle used to be a contender at the top of the table. The GRob era was like when Newcastle got relegated out of the EPL. However, Newcastle has come back to the EPL and are now bottom half table team like Syracuse has become a 6-7 win and bowl team. Neither side has the talent to compete with the top teams constantly.

Now back to SU FB talk.

I equate them to Liverpool which is equally sad for me on both parts. Though in college football (most) teams can't just throw money at players and have an immediate talent overhaul. Even if Cuse went Urban Meyer style dirty and offered money to recruits, we'd still get out bid for the players by Urban Meyers, and co.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I totally agree with that. Erv is the only play maker I see on the team right now. If we burned his redshirt then don't waste the year. Design some plays and get him the rock. I don't want to hear he's not physically ready. If he wasn't physically ready then you should have redshirted him.

Agree and those plays should not be running between the tackles. Has SU run a jet sweep yet this year?

 

[TheCusian]

Agree and those plays should not be running between the tackles. Has SU run a jet sweep yet this year?

His biggest runs have come between the tackles. The few times he was outside it was for a loss.

His lateral quickness and vision combined with straight away running is what makes him special.

 

[TheCusian]

So call it depressing if you want, i'm calling it frustration of watching a team with potential not improving at all. And the day I come away with a positive view of what I witnessed Saturday is the day I stop supporting the program because all that means is we accepted to be a mediocore at best program.

As said before - I respect your opinion and your take on things... but this is kind of a cop out. The day you see this team play and can't take away positives is the day you become the worst kind of Cuse fan - seeing negative no matter what... Seeing the positive and the negative at the same time is not settling for a mediocre program, it's seeing the truth about the program.

I usually shoot for the positive, because there is an overwhelming crapton of negative after a loss...

Ishmael looked pretty good on Sat. Phillips played well. Defense made a ton of plays - fumbles recovered, the Golson sandwich in the 1st, the Reddish and Eskridge INT's.

 

[Full_Rebar]

His biggest runs have come between the tackles. The few times he was outside it was for a loss.

His lateral quickness and vision combined with straight away running is what makes him special.

Well if the reason he's not going to get 10+ touches is the coaches worrying about his health, then they should get some other plays in place for him. We've got him and Estime being used in the middle of the field and Custis/Lewis catching screens.

The one touch he had in the MD game was blown up before he could move, so I'm not ready to say he's not good outside the tackles.

 

[orangecuse]

I can see looking at it that way. I don't really think of that as taking advantage. All that is doing is lessening the blowout. Without converting those turnovers into points, it makes the game 31-15 instead of 45-15. Not much of a difference really.

I guess it can be lessoning the blowout...or, perhaps, it can be looked at as keeping it closer or in the game longer...and, if we can limit their scoring, it enhances our opportunity of winning. Along the lines of...just keep it close...and anything can happen. But, of course, that also means we have to have the wherewithal to be able to score when the game is still in doubt...

 

[anomander]

As said before - I respect your opinion and your take on things... but this is kind of a cop out. The day you see this team play and can't take away positives is the day you become the worst kind of Cuse fan - seeing negative no matter what... Seeing the positive and the negative at the same time is not settling for a mediocre program, it's seeing the truth about the program.

I usually shoot for the positive, because there is an overwhelming crapton of negative after a loss...

Ishmael looked pretty good on Sat. Phillips played well. Defense made a ton of plays - fumbles recovered, the Golson sandwich in the 1st, the Reddish and Eskridge INT's.

I'll preface this by admitting I have yet to watch the replay on television, and admit sometimes the view from the stands, and television is a bit different. I actually felt a little better watching the Maryland game back, then I initially had from the stadium, but my live take wasn't too great. I felt the defense game plan was to not get embarrassed on national television. There were no adjustments to their bubble screen. We literally let Golston complete pass after pass for 5-7 yards a pop. We did do a good job of forcing turnovers, but what did we do with it? Every game is going to have a some bright spots, and not so bright spots, but I felt we were at the point where the overall performance is what matters? The icing is the penalties. It's been a problem for a while now, and for a program fighting an uphill battle we can't afford to give yards away. A lot seem to happen in crucial situations as well (inside 30).

I am mostly just frustrated right now. I guess my expectations were a bit too high.

 

[TheCusian]

I'll preface this by admitting I have yet to watch the replay on television, and admit sometimes the view from the stands, and television is a bit different. I actually felt a little better watching the Maryland game back, then I initially had from the stadium, but my live take wasn't too great. I felt the defense game plan was to not get embarrassed on national television. There were no adjustments to their bubble screen. We literally let Golston complete pass after pass for 5-7 yards a pop. We did do a good job of forcing turnovers, but what did we do with it? Every game is going to have a some bright spots, and not so bright spots, but I felt we were at the point where the overall performance is what matters? The icing is the penalties. It's been a problem for a while now, and for a program fighting an uphill battle we can't afford to give yards away. A lot seem to happen in crucial situations as well (inside 30).

I am mostly just frustrated right now. I guess my expectations were a bit too high.

I'm with you on the penalties. I throw stuff at my TV every procedural penalty.

Shafer thought that they would have to rely on the screen game and that our corners and safeties would be "putting a hit on playmakers in space" (that's what he said after the game anyways). I don't know how sound that is/was. I think when you watch the replay, you'll see us adjust to the the screen - problem was the gaping hole for their run game. I guess I would have preferred to die that way then bubble screened to death.

To me this was a "losing on the recruiting trail thread two years ago" game. They were bigger and faster and that accounted for most of the issues, penalties aside. Our QB is too limited to pull off a magic game through the air. They knew that.
--

I think people mistake accepting a moral victory and seeing the positives as the same thing around here. I hate losing - but can still see improvement. I honestly think the offense is ready to break out. I may get killed for that - but I think we could roll Louisville (unless T.Hunt can't go).

 

[cuseguy]

I thought our ceiling was 8 wins provided we started 3-0. After the Maryland loss, we were going to be 7-5, at best, and more likely 6-6. If we lose to Louisville, were probably looking at 5-7.

 

[TheCusian]

I thought our ceiling was 8 wins provided we started 3-0. After the Maryland loss, we were going to be 7-5, at best, and more likely 6-6. If we lose to Louisville, were probably looking at 5-7.

I still think we are at the point where the only sure losses are FSU and Clemson. If we were averaging less yards, or turnover prone, or giving up a ton of sacks, unable to stop the run, etc. - I think we would be bottom dweller in our division. But there are some signs of a bunch of wins yet to be had.

And ... FSU sure looks sloppy compared to last season. At home vs this years team we have a much better chance of keeping it close than last years team at their place. Clemson looks really, really good with their young QB.

 

[timkay99]

On a third and less than a yard down 20 near the opponents 30 - you need to be play actioning and taking a shot down the field and then coming back on 4th to get stuffed. Especially with our predictable tendencies.

Honestly, we can't block long enough to not get stopped on a 3rd and 1 and you think our OL can hold on against a run blitz with enough time for Hunt to set his feet and throw? And which WR is the one wide open down the field?

If we did a play-action on 3rd and 1 and threw incomplete and then got stopped on 4th and 1, people would be complaining that you only needed 2 plays to get 1 yard and Kool Kid is an idiot.

The way some people see the game really, really confuses me.