some post-mortem thoughts on the recently Departed

[orangehomer]

disclaimer: this post is not a personal attack on any of the entities involved. rather, my intent is to neutrally eulogize the 2013-2014 season and the dearly Departed.

2013-2014: first the past year edition of the orange. we had a fast start in the acc that devolved into a poor finish. my initial reaction was that the acc coaches coached circles around JB when push came to shove. this teams best win was a home win in OT against a Duke team that won even less than us, and lost in the first round of the NCAA. upon further reflection, I wondered if JB didn't so much get outcoached but rather, had a limited group and injuries that plagued the end of the season. I could digest either argument, but the bottom line is that this team tanked at the end of the season. my opinion, and it won't go over well, is that we had 3 guys with their eyes on the pros, and winning came second. lastly, a more basketball related thought, is that we had an offense based on mid-ranged 2's. we were a bad 3-point shooting team and bad at getting to the rim and the foul line. that is basically the hardest way to win, and ultimately we weren't good enough offensively to win in a tournament setting.

baye moussa keita: a great program kid, who didn't develop as much offensively as I had hoped. I don't think he was healthy after his injury this year. in fact I think if he had another year left he may have been shut down. if memory serves, he had 0 stats in 3 minutes against Dayton, which makes 0 sense had he been 100%. he seemed to be a great kid and great ambassador, probably moreso than his actual court contributions, but I will always remember him playing very well in the final 4 run last year.

jerami grant: he had the feel of a "we hardly knew ye" type player because outside of the occasional weird acrobat type play I'm not sure how good of a basketball player this kid actually was. my inclination is to give him more of a pass than ennis because he actually went to a final 4, but on the other hand I wonder what he actually accomplished here, and I question the logic of leaving early to be a 20+ type pick. he was a ++ athlete, but he couldn't shoot, dribble or pass and I think that is a tough skill set for an nba small forward but good luck jerami.

tyler ennis: to me the biggest disappointment of the year. going in to the season when we thought cj was gone, it seemed like a developmental year for tyler and mccollough comes next year. now we waste a year on ennis, he leaves, and we are back to square one. ennis was a nice frosh point guard. that's it. as far as one and dones go, he was about as lackluster as it gets, and his time here will be some footnote that 10 years from now no one will remember he played here. I think his best attribute was assist/turnover ratio, which I think was a function of him playing slower than paint dries. his assists came largely from passes to jumpshooters, and when push came to shove he couldn't reliably shoot, score, or defend. he was terrible against Dayton and declared for the NBA 5 days later, and to me that is his legacy.

cj fair: a good soldier who deserved a better ending. a program kid who got better every season. unfortunately, JB tried to iso him this year, which is not cj's game. he is an off the ball player, and at the end of the year his inability to handle the ball and pass effectively out of double teams really hurt us. often there are players that are teetering on leaving or staying, cj was one. my opinion is that if a guy is teetering he should just go, because ultimately we want guys committed to winning, not to draft status. I think cj came back to be the man, which JB tried to facilitate. but you can't convince me that the draft hype of ennis and grant as the season wen on didn't bother cj. the kid was feeling a lot of pressure about becoming a pro, and I think it affected him as the year went on.

 

[SWC75]

"as far as one and dones go, he was about as lackluster as it gets, and his time here will be some footnote that 10 years from now no one will remember he played here."

Wow.

 

[orangehomer]

"as far as one and dones go, he was about as lackluster as it gets, and his time here will be some footnote that 10 years from now no one will remember he played here."

Wow.

so your memory of ennis was that he hit a buzzer beater against a mediocre pitt team that didn't win a game in march. meh.

 

[SWC75]

so your memory of ennis was that he hit a buzzer beater against a mediocre pitt team that didn't win a game in march. meh.

We aren't going to forget that and we aren't going to forget being 25-0, either.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't necessarily disagree with the player evaluations but I think Ennis was really the only guy doing anything in the Dayton game. Fair was ok and Silent G showed flashes but their D gave us fits. The offense became so stagnant and discombobulated that Ennis was forced to improv on his own. He just made some poor decisions at the end.

I disagree with thinking winning came second to having their eyes on the pros. I do agree that Boeheim wasn't so much outcoached but just dealing with a limited group. Having all this CJ ISO ball and so much loyalty to that and him was probably not the best tactical decision and we have all discussed the bench lack of development. Onwards to next year.

 

[orangehomer]

We aren't going to forget that and we aren't going to forget being 25-0, either.

i don't presume to argue with board royalty and come out well, but yeah we were 25-0 and crashed 3-6 afterward. its like an nfl team going 12-0 and then crashing out in the first round of the playoffs. no one cares that we were 25-0. it was not an achievement. it will not be remembered, and neither will ennis.

 

[SWC75]

i don't presume to argue with board royalty and come out well, but yeah we were 25-0 and crashed 3-6 afterward. its like an nfl team going 12-0 and then crashing out in the first round of the playoffs. no one cares that we were 25-0. it was not an achievement. it will not be remembered, and neither will ennis.

We'll agree to disagree on that for now and time will tell who is right. I certainly won't forget either the schools' longest winning streak or the man most responsible for it.

 

[Cowtown]

i don't presume to argue with board royalty and come out well, but yeah we were 25-0 and crashed 3-6 afterward. its like an nfl team going 12-0 and then crashing out in the first round of the playoffs. no one cares that we were 25-0. it was not an achievement. it will not be remembered, and neither will ennis.

I'm hardly "board royalty," but I'll remember 25-0 and Ennis' game winner vs. Pitt a lot longer than I'll remember such a specious assertion as we "wasted a year on Ennis."

 

[obliterata]

tyler ennis: to me the biggest disappointment of the year. going in to the season when we thought cj was gone, it seemed like a developmental year for tyler and mccollough comes next year. now we waste a year on ennis, he leaves, and we are back to square one. ennis was a nice frosh point guard. that's it. as far as one and dones go, he was about as lackluster as it gets, and his time here will be some footnote that 10 years from now no one will remember he played here. I think his best attribute was assist/turnover ratio, which I think was a function of him playing slower than paint dries. his assists came largely from passes to jumpshooters, and when push came to shove he couldn't reliably shoot, score, or defend. he was terrible against Dayton and declared for the NBA 5 days later, and to me that is his legacy.

Wow indeed.

1) The biggest disappointment to me was not having a natural point guard to back up Ennis and to play along side him at times. If we had one I think we'd have had more post-season success.

2) If the temporary injury Ennis suffered in that Pitt game - which at first looked like it could've been serious - kept him from playing the rest of the season the team probably would not have won another game.

3) 10 years from now people will remember he played here, the shot he hit at Pitt, and the 25-0 start. 30 years ago Pearl Washington hit a somewhat similar shot and people remember that. Ennis's shot was even better than Pearl's in every way except distance.

4) Pearl is my all-time favorite player. His 3 SU teams went 1-1 each year in the NCAAT just like Ennis's.

5) I wish Ennis returned for at least one more year. He made the right decision regardless what the future brings.

 

[Briancuse]

Wow indeed.

1) The biggest disappointment to me was not having a natural point guard to back up Ennis and to play along side him at times. If we had one I think we'd have had more post-season success.

2) If the temporary injury Ennis suffered in that Pitt game - which at first looked like it could've been serious - kept him from playing the rest of the season the team probably would not have won another game.

3) 10 years from now people will remember he played here, the shot he hit at Pitt, and the 25-0 start. 30 years ago Pearl Washington hit a somewhat similar shot and people remember that. Ennis's shot was even better than Pearl's in every way except distance.

4) Pearl is my all-time favorite player. His 3 SU teams went 1-1 each year in the NCAAT just like Ennis's.

5) I wish Ennis returned for at least one more year. He made the right decision regardless what the future brings.

Ten years from now only the die hard fans will remember his year at Su, unless he goes on to a really good pro career.

Pearl Washington was a legendary, program changing player, Ennis was a nice player, that is why Pearl's shot will be remembered more than Ennis'.

 

[Jack Hall]

A tad cynical/negative and I dont agree necassarily on Ennis' legacy but you make some interesting points. To recap our season, the team, CJ, Grant and Ennis all played their best ball in late nov, dec and jan and not in feb and most importantly March. Why was that? I have seen lots of ideas thrown around but to me it was either they ran out of gas (the thin bench and three guys regularly playing 37-40 mins/game certainly could have been a primary culprit for that) and/or we had chemistry problems (and anyone who watched our offense down the stretch could see evidence of suboptimal chemistry). I personally thought it was both. And some of the things you mention could explain the poor chemistry. Maybe, maybe not. Ill never really know, this season will always go down as an enigma to me as i thought this was a great group of young men that represented SU well. in the end i wish Baye, CJ, Jerami and Tyler nothing but the best. at same time cant wait to see what the team will look like next year with Roberson, Patterson, BJ, Gbinje, McC, Kaleb, Obokoh etc all (hopefully) playing bigger roles.....one thing thats evident to me, JB tends to do his best work when expectations are low (which they will be next season for sure (ie we already have that zone guy saying the best we can possibly finish in acc is fifth). Its interesting that after MCW , BT, and JS all departed, expectations were low at the beginning season, we went 25-0, got to #1...then expectations got SKY HI (ie i saw more guys claiming that that they were booking their tix for msg and texas) and the rest is history....

 

[Cheriehoop]

We'll agree to disagree on that for now and time will tell who is right. I certainly won't forget either the schools' longest winning streak or the man most responsible for it.

To be honest I think the reason we were 25-0 was because there wasn't any one man totally responsible for getting there. Ennis was a distributor with a great assist/turnover ratio who as a freshman impressed everyone with his steadiness, judgement and confidence - not his ability to takeover games. He was an efficient, opportunistic scorer in the first 25 games.

In our 25 game win streak CJ was the leading scorer in 12 of them and was tied in another for the leader.
Tyler Cooney was the leader in 6 games, Tyler Ennis in 3 games and tied for the leader in one game. Rak and Dajuan each led us in scoring one game , while Rak and Jerami tied in scoring in another.

In the last 9 games where we went 3-6, CJ led us in scoring in 3 of them and was tied as the leader in another one, Ennis was also the leader in 3 games and tied as the leader in another while Cooney and Jerami each led in scoring one game.

 

[wallacecuse]

I don't necessarily disagree with the player evaluations but I think Ennis was really the only guy doing anything in the Dayton game. Fair was ok and Silent G showed flashes but their D gave us fits. The offense became so stagnant and discombobulated that Ennis was forced to improv on his own. He just made some poor decisions at the end.

I disagree with thinking winning came second to having their eyes on the pros. I do agree that Boeheim wasn't so much outcoached but just dealing with a limited group. Having all this CJ ISO ball and so much loyalty to that and him was probably not the best tactical decision and we have all discussed the bench lack of development. Onwards to next year.

After the Dayton game, someone had mentioned that it was not so much about what they did, but what we didn't. That was my take away. The first half was a comedy of errors - missed layups, missed jumpers. We were getting good looks, but nothing was dropping. In the 2nd half they hit some late 3 s we had no ability to match, but even so, we were two late jumpers away from winning.

 

[SWC75]

Ten years from now only the die hard fans will remember his year at Su, unless he goes on to a really good pro career.

Pearl Washington was a legendary, program changing player, Ennis was a nice player, that is why Pearl's shot will be remembered more than Ennis'.

Of course I remember everything- each season and each point guard.

Without looking it up, here are the starting point guards in the JB era:

Jim Williams, Ross Kindell, Eddie Moss, Gene Waldron, Pearl Washington, Sherman Douglas, Stevie Thompson, Michael Edwards, Adrian Autry, Michael Lloyd, Lazarus Sims, Jason Hart, Allen Griffin, James Theus, Gerry McNamara, Josh Wright, Eric Devenforf, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Michael Carter Williams and Tyler Ennis. I remember every teams, lots of games and lots of shots.


So I guess I'm not the person to judge what other fans will remember.

 

[SWC75]

To be honest I think the reason we were 25-0 was because there wasn't any one man totally responsible for getting there. Ennis was a distributor with a great assist/turnover ratio who as a freshman impressed everyone with his steadiness, judgement and confidence - not his ability to takeover games. He was an efficient, opportunistic scorer in the first 25 games.

In our 25 game win streak CJ was the leading scorer in 12 of them and was tied in another for the leader.
Tyler Cooney was the leader in 6 games, Tyler Ennis in 3 games and tied for the leader in one game. Rak and Dajuan each led us in scoring one game , while Rak and Jerami tied in scoring in another.

In the last 9 games where we went 3-6, CJ led us in scoring in 3 of them and was tied as the leader in another one, Ennis was also the leader in 3 games and tied as the leader in another while Cooney and Jerami each led in scoring one game.

By the same token I have a hard time blaming Tyler for the 3-6 finish. I think he was our bets player in that stretch.

 

[SWC75]

I'm hardly "board royalty," but I'll remember 25-0 and Ennis' game winner vs. Pitt a lot longer than I'll remember such a specious assertion as we "wasted a year on Ennis."

Or that 25-0 "was not an achievement".

 

[Orangefan1]

I won't forget going 6 and 9 down the stretch either. Being 25 and 0 was great, but as everyone knows it's how you finish. I don't know pointing the blame on one thing would make a difference. I will say that I think we did a poor job of recruiting from the year before other than Ennis. I don' t think Patterson or Johnson were ready at all which leaves me to believe we really should of gone after another good one to shore up our guard play.

 

[LennX6]

I'm hardly "board royalty," but I'll remember 25-0 and Ennis' game winner vs. Pitt a lot longer than I'll remember such a specious assertion as we "wasted a year on Ennis."

I'll remember that a large part of that 25-0 was about 15 of those games Ennis put the team on his back for large portions of the second halves of those games. The others, CJ did.
Noone is giving the role of injuries in this equation. I seriously thought Tyler was done after that hit he took on his arm at Pitt. Jerami, Baye, even Cooney.

 

[SoBeCuse]

After the Dayton game, someone had mentioned that it was not so much about what they did, but what we didn't. That was my take away. The first half was a comedy of errors - missed layups, missed jumpers. We were getting good looks, but nothing was dropping. In the 2nd half they hit some late 3 s we had no ability to match, but even so, we were two late jumpers away from winning.

I don't know. That's part of it. But, as in the heart of the slump, the offense got stagnant and not enough playmakers emerged. Dayton played aggressive D and Jerami/Cooney were taken out of the game by stronger more physical players. Could've been his back as well. 4 assists as a team. 4. That's not all on missed shots. That's called offense with no clue and in an abominable funk.

 

[Briancuse]

Of course I remember everything- each season and each point guard.

Without looking it up, here are the starting point guards in the JB era:

Jim Williams, Ross Kindell, Eddie Moss, Gene Waldron, Pearl Washington, Sherman Douglas, Stevie Thompson, Michael Edwards, Adrian Autry, Michael Lloyd, Lazarus Sims, Jason Hart, Allen Griffin, James Theus, Gerry McNamara, Josh Wright, Eric Devenforf, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Michael Carter Williams and Tyler Ennis. I remember every teams, lots of games and lots of shots.


So I guess I'm not the person to judge what other fans will remember.

Well of course you are going to remember, I meant the more casual fan. Ten years from now pitt fans will be asking each other "What was the name of that syracuse kid who hit that shot against us"

 

[dasher]

Well of course you are going to remember, I meant the more casual fan. Ten years from now pitt fans will be asking each other "What was the name of that syracuse kid who hit that shot against us"

Really? They wouldn't be much of a fan. I remember every kid that hurt us that way.

 

[Briancuse]

Really? They wouldn't be much of a fan. I remember every kid that hurt us that way.

You are a die hard, most people on here are die hards, I meant the casual fan. If you asked 50 college basketball fans what school donte greene played for, how many would know?

 

[Dave85]

so your memory of ennis was that he hit a buzzer beater against a mediocre pitt team that didn't win a game in march. meh.

My memory of Ennis is the Pitt game and that his name rhymes funny.

 

[Cheriehoop]

By the same token I have a hard time blaming Tyler for the 3-6 finish. I think he was our bets player in that stretch.

I didn't and would never blame Tyler for the 3-6 finish. I was addressing your statement that our 25 game winning streak, Tyler "was the man most responsible for it".

I do agree with you that Tyler Ennis won't be forgotten - no one has forgotten Jonny Flynn, Dion.

 

[SWC75]

I didn't and would never blame Tyler for the 3-6 finish. I was addressing your statement that our 25 game winning streak, Tyler "was the man most responsible for it".

I do agree with you that Tyler Ennis won't be forgotten - no one has forgotten Jonny Flynn, Dion.

"Most responsible" and "leading scorer" are two different things.