some post-mortem thoughts on the recently Departed

[HOFCeluck]

I don' t think Patterson or Johnson were ready at all which leaves me to believe we really should of gone after another good one to shore up our guard play.

We did.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Of course I remember everything- each season and each point guard.

Without looking it up, here are the starting point guards in the JB era:

Jim Williams, Ross Kindell, Eddie Moss, Gene Waldron, Pearl Washington, Sherman Douglas, Stevie Thompson, Michael Edwards, Adrian Autry, Michael Lloyd, Lazarus Sims, Jason Hart, Allen Griffin, James Theus, Gerry McNamara, Josh Wright, Eric Devenforf, Jonny Flynn, Brandon Triche, Scoop Jardine, Michael Carter Williams and Tyler Ennis. I remember every teams, lots of games and lots of shots.


So I guess I'm not the person to judge what other fans will remember.

You missed Billy Edelin. He started alongside Gerry and was very much the PG when he was out there and Gerry moved to the 2.

 

[SWC75]

You missed Billy Edelin. He started alongside Gerry and was very much the PG when he was out there and Gerry moved to the 2.

I missed him. But I haven't forgotten him.

 

[stuckinbig11]

my initial reaction was that the acc coaches coached circles around JB when push came to shove.

Sorry, but I don't recall that any of the other coaches had a better shooting percentage than JB. They all shot 0.0%. Were they better at telling their players to make the ball go through the hoop? Our nose dive was due to poor shooting.

 

[SUbear]

We aren't going to forget that and we aren't going to forget being 25-0, either.

I have already forgotten, because the upshot is if you do nothing in the tournament ultimately you have done nothing.

 

[rottweiler44]

IMO, Ennis brought more, but from a historical perspective will fall in the same category as Donte Green when it is all said and done. Grant will be remembered in the same way as a Johnny Flynn. CJ Fair = Demetrius Nichols...

All in all, despite the 25-0 start, this team belongs in the same category as SYR versions 2011, 2009, 2006, 2005, 2001, 1998, 1995, which is not a terrible thing, but firmly in the 2nd tier of SU teams.

 

[AZOrange]

You are a die hard, most people on here are die hards, I meant the casual fan. If you asked 50 college basketball fans what school donte greene played for, how many would know?

Depends on which fan base you ask. Do you think anyone here forgets Carl krauser? Or dikembe? Or thabeet? Or Chris Thomas? Or mother Keith smart?

 

[SWC75]

I have already forgotten, because the upshot is if you do nothing in the tournament ultimately you have done nothing.

How many SU teams have "done something" in the tournament by your standard? I guess the rest are irrelevant and forgotten.

 

[Briancuse]

Depends on which fan base you ask. Do you think anyone here forgets Carl krauser? Or dikembe? Or thabeet? Or Chris Thomas? Or mother Keith smart?

I pride myself on having a good memory for sports, but I don't remember everyone. Without looking it up, What is the name of the byu kid who scorched us in the game that gmac scored 43?

 

[IthacaMatt]

How many SU teams have "done something" in the tournament by your standard? I guess the rest are irrelevant and forgotten.

Sweet 16 has always been our benchmark, IMO. If you don't make it to the second weekend of the tournament, it's almost like you weren't in it at all.

 

[RoysRunts]

Iv'e seen every Point Guard at SU since they weren't even called point Guards and Tyler Ennis was GREAT.. ......................................................
The BEST POINT Guard since Sherm

 

[AZOrange]

I pride myself on having a good memory for sports, but I don't remember everyone. Without looking it up, What is the name of the byu kid who scorched us in the game that gmac scored 43?

You member rivals and killers. Ennis is both to Pitt fans.

Rafael arjuao or something. Big stiff

 

[orangehomer]

How many SU teams have "done something" in the tournament by your standard? I guess the rest are irrelevant and forgotten.

it's not just that, for some teams a sweet sixteen is an achievement on its own. for this team, all they had to do was beat a 14 and an 11 for a sweet sixteen, 2 mid majors. this was a team that was ranked in the top 5 for the majority of the season, and ennis was the man on the team. he was the lottery pick, one and done. he went 7-21 with a bad turnover and 2 bricks in the last minute against Dayton, then he declared 5 days later. it just seems so empty to point to 25-0. there are goals for any team, for this team it was regular season ACC, ACC tourney, and NCAA tourney. we did good in the ACC but didn't win the regular season. we didn't win a game in the ACC tourney, and we didn't make it out of the first weekend of the NCAA as a 3 seed. no one is saying the team will be totally forgotten, but I just think 10 years from now it will be a very forgettable season.

 

[SUbear]

How many SU teams have "done something" in the tournament by your standard? I guess the rest are irrelevant and forgotten.

Exactly.

 

[llandz]

Since only ONE team can win the NCAA championship every year, I look for the other things that make a season special. This year it was 25-0. The season starts in November and goes into March and if even luckier into April. Are you going to tell me that you did not have fun and were not super excited from November through February? Was that not the best? How can you belittle 25-0? For those of us who have been watching the team for many years, that was a big deal. Also being number 1 for several weeks. Seriously how much higher can you go? Who cares how we accomplished it...we accomplished it. Yes, we fell flat in the end. But for 85% of the season, I was on top of the world. Did Wichita State also have a failure of a season? How about Duke? Will anyone remember that Jabari who ever person? They went out a round before us. Seriously learn to enjoy things in life a little more, and don't make everything so one sided. Would we all like to win a NC, yes... but I can still enjoy my team without it. Otherwise the past 42 years would have been awfully disappointing.

 

[SWC75]

So I guess the upshot of this thread is that the hardcore fan sees something to remember in every season but the casual fan only cares about the post season. But of course, being a casual fan, what happens there shouldn't be too upsetting.

My view is that being a Syracuse fan should be fun and if you only care about what happens in a single elimination tournament at the end of the season where 90% of the games could go either way, you aren't going to have as much fun as fans who appreciate the talents of every player and all the accomplishments of each team.

 

[SWC75]

Naturally I had to look it up and of course I over-stated the closeness of the NCAA games. 3 of the 67 games were won by single digits. Of those, 7 went onto overtime, (including one of the double figure games).

Dayton, who we would have beaten had Ennis' last shot gone in, went to the Elite 8 and lost to #1 Florida. if we had done that, would that have satisfied those "casual" fans?

Connecticut beat St. Joseph's in the first round in overtime in a game they pulled out of the fire late in regulation. If hey'd lost in the first round would they be a different team with a different coach? They won their games by 8(ot), 12, 5, 6, 10 and 6. Credit to them for winning close games but it doesn't suggest that they won because they play a brand of basketball that is over an above their opposition. You could play the tournament over again and get totally different results and a completely different post-mortem.

 

[swish7]

We aren't going to forget that and we aren't going to forget being 25-0, either.

I'll forget 25-0, just like I forgto 21-0 (or whatever it was), and the stupid T-shirt sale that preceded the fall that year. 25-0 is meaningless if you don't make it past the 1st weekend in the NCAAs. I know, bad fan.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well of course you are going to remember, I meant the more casual fan. Ten years from now pitt fans will be asking each other "What was the name of that syracuse kid who hit that shot against us"

 

[sufan4eva13]

This thread has been disappointing considering how much we accomplished and how fun the year was. One bad month soured you guys on the season? Not I. One thing I always measure seasons by is how much fun I had following the team that particular year, and this year was a BLAST. I gotta tell you guys, during the 25-0 stretch I really thought we were unbeatable, and I have NEVER been more excited to watch every single game. I thought I was seeing our greatest team ever. It was irrational looking back, but it just felt to me like when the game was on the line we were on another level, and I really thought we could run the table. That is what I am going to remember most from this past season, that feeling I had during our streak when we were unbeaten, ranked #1, with 4 threats on offense and a defense that suffocated teams, with a point guard who was the greatest thing this lifelong 21 year old SU fan has ever seen at this school. I will remember beating Duke in front of the biggest crowd ever, I will remember winning Maui, I will remember 0ur awesome tour through Canada and that epic clash with Carleton, I will remember coming down from almost 20 down against Nova to win by almost 20 points, I will remember Ennis's miracle against Pitt. This was a GREAT season of basketball to watch, last month or so notwithstanding.
When I look back at this team, it will be a VERY fond memory. Maybe I am alone in that, but I thoroughly enjoyed the time I spent watching them. I hope next year is half as exciting.

 

[MikeSU02]

Naturally I had to look it up and of course I over-stated the closeness of the NCAA games. 3 of the 67 games were won by single digits. Of those, 7 went onto overtime, (including one of the double figure games).

Dayton, who we would have beaten had Ennis' last shot gone in, went to the Elite 8 and lost to #1 Florida. if we had done that, would that have satisfied those "casual" fans?

Connecticut beat St. Joseph's in the first round in overtime in a game they pulled out of the fire late in regulation. If hey'd lost in the first round would they be a different team with a different coach? They won their games by 8(ot), 12, 5, 6, 10 and 6. Credit to them for winning close games but it doesn't suggest that they won because they play a brand of basketball that is over an above their opposition. You could play the tournament over again and get totally different results and a completely different post-mortem.

Everyone knows the end goal is determined by a one and done tournament. So yes, a team's ability to win the games that we, as fans, deem lucky absolutely matters.

Over the course of 6 games, there will be at least a few close games that you have to win.

Regular season success should be a by-product of preparation for a a one and done tournament, not something that you keep reaching back to for defining a successful season. The goal is to win a national title and that is determined by the tourney.

And it does suggest that they play a brand of basketball that lends itself to tournament victories. In 1999 and 2004, they had awesome talent, great guards and great bigs. 2011 and 2014, they had awesome guards. Yes, the outcome could be different, but UConn was still set up for success.

 

[SUbear]

Since only ONE team can win the NCAA championship every year, I look for the other things that make a season special. This year it was 25-0. The season starts in November and goes into March and if even luckier into April. Are you going to tell me that you did not have fun and were not super excited from November through February? Was that not the best? How can you belittle 25-0? For those of us who have been watching the team for many years, that was a big deal. Also being number 1 for several weeks. Seriously how much higher can you go? Who cares how we accomplished it...we accomplished it. Yes, we fell flat in the end. But for 85% of the season, I was on top of the world. Did Wichita State also have a failure of a season? How about Duke? Will anyone remember that Jabari who ever person? They went out a round before us. Seriously learn to enjoy things in life a little more, and don't make everything so one sided. Would we all like to win a NC, yes... but I can still enjoy my team without it. Otherwise the past 42 years would have been awfully disappointing.

The plain fact is that if you do not get to at least the sweet sixteen, the season is a disappointment. The regular season is fun and entertaining but in the grand scheme of things not terribly significant. If you feel differently great for you. Sorry, I just feel this team was a total failure when it came to games that really mattered. I am not particularly impressed by any team that does not show development as the season progresses and this team did not.
I never said you have to win an NC every year or any year, though admittedly it would be nice to win more than one in 42 years.

 

[SWC75]

The goal is to win a national title and that is determined by the tourney.

That's a goal. So is winning the conference regular season and the conference tournament. So is having a program that produces a good team with the potential for something great to happen every year. And that may be the real accomplishment.

They all matter.

 

[MikeSU02]

That's a goal. So is winning the conference regular season and the conference tournament. So is having a program that produces a good team with the potential for something great to happen every year. And that may be the real accomplishment.

They all matter.

It's not a goal, it's the goal. At least for me, as a fan of a top 10 program. Conference titles are great and tournament titles are fun, but in reality, all those secondary accomplishments should be a result of building for NCAA Tournament success.

I'm happy for all the memories those secondary accomplishments create, but in reality, it doesn't trump the post-season runs we have. I'll always value a Final Four run over any conference tournament title. Maybe I'm in the minority.

 

[SWC75]

It's not a goal, it's the goal. At least for me, as a fan of a top 10 program. Conference titles are great and tournament titles are fun, but in reality, all those secondary accomplishments should be a result of building for NCAA Tournament success.

I'm happy for all the memories those secondary accomplishments create, but in reality, it doesn't trump the post-season runs we have. I'll always value a Final Four run over any conference tournament title. Maybe I'm in the minority.

Goals may have different priorities but you don't want to put all your eggs in one, leaky, basket.

JB has said that he got as much pleasure out of having a limited team find a way to make the NCAAs, (such as 2005-06), as from making the Final Four. it's about seeing how far each team can go- and appreciating each team for what they did manage to achieve. That doesn't erase the memory of the disappointments but it should co-exist with them.