Some Signs of Movement on the Missouri Front

[OrangePA]

You think it's in SU's best interest for the Big East to stay a viable, BCS auto bid conference?

I bet Coach Marrone would disagree with you.

Yeah, I do.

Because the realistic alternatives are more problematic.

 

[orangenirvana]

Obviously I disagree with you.

First, your outcome is very, very unlikely.

Second, your outcome includes way to much uncertainty and instability.

UConn is not going to the MAC and neither is Rutgers. Both are going to be around and if what you hope for occurs both could end up in the ACC - I don't want that.

Plus, the trauma that would occur if the BE were to die could boomerang the Orange somehow - maybe the ACC decides that the fall-out is too difficult and rescinds the invitation.

In any arena - business, sports - the unknown or lack of stability are not good things.

The reconstituted BE maintains stability, allows the Orange to move on, and keeps UConn and Rutgers at bay to a certain, and realistic degree.

Why do you think it's that unlikely?

Mizzou has an offer from the SEC and very well could join any day now. The Big 12 wants to expand if that happens and word has it Louisville, Cinci and WVU are atop their list. Who else would they invite? ECU? Houston? The Big East programs trump all other options.

Then - if the Big East is left with Rutgers, USF, and UConn, why would any school leave to join the Big East?

At that point, why wouldn't USF or even UConn and Rutgers (if invited) take their best (and only) option and join the MWCUSA? You can't have a 3-team football conference.

If UConn and Rutgers are then left hanging, then what else would they do?

And I've made this point to you before...if the ACC wants Rutgers and/or UConn, then they will invite them whether they are part of a stable Big East conference or not.

The ACC is not going to rescind the offer. Seems like a silly thing to worry about.

 

[kingottoiii]

Yeah, I do.

Because the realistic alternatives are more problematic.

It is problematic for the BE, but NOT for SU. You still have yet to explain any negatives from SU's perspective.

 

[orangenirvana]

It is problematic for the BE, but NOT for SU. You still have yet to explain any negatives from SU's perspective.

Don't want to speak for anyone here but based on OPA's posts over the last few weeks, he seems to feel that if the Big East crumbles the ACC as a result will either (1) invite Rutgers and/or UConn OR (2) tell SU "nevermind, we changed our minds. We don't want you anymore."

I personally can't understand how he comes up with these potential scenarios, but :noidea:

 

[Cusefan95]

It is problematic for the BE, but NOT for SU. You still have yet to explain any negatives from SU's perspective.

The core premise is that instability could make the ACC panic and pull their offers to Syracuse and Pitt. Personally I can't see why the ACC would back out now, they can't renegotiate with ESPN and unleash an ungodly amount of legal issues if they pull a bid after it's been officially offered and accepted.

Personally I think uncertainty for the other northeastern programs plays to our advantage and think the risk of the ACC pulling the bids now is 0.00%.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

FWIW, I was talking to some Rutgers fans this weekend and they were pretty psyched to be staying in the Big East and about the invited schools.

apparently, you were talking to ed Rutgers fans - which I realize may be redundant.

 

[kingottoiii]

Don't want to speak for anyone here but based on OPA's posts over the last few weeks, he seems to feel that if the Big East crumbles the ACC as a result will either (1) invite Rutgers and/or UConn OR (2) tell SU "nevermind, we changed our minds. We don't want you anymore."

I personally can't understand how he comes up with these potential scenarios, but :noidea:

That makes zero sense. The ACC added Pitt and SU because we add value. If the BE crumbles that doesn't change that fact. Actually it may add more value as there is less NE competition.

 

[OrangePA]

I mentioned at least some of the negatives in a previous post in this thread.

But since you have essentially instructed me to explain, I'll do it again for you.

Right now, the Orange is in the BE for the next 27 months.

If the BE dies there will be litigation involving Syracuse University - I have no doubt about that. That would be a negative from at least a financial standpoint. Litigation is always a bad idea - too much uncertainty and needless animosity results. UConn is still feeling the pinch of the lawsuit it filed years ago. So that would be negative for SU.

A lot can happen in 27 months - the more instability, the more uncertainty - the more likely something will happen that could derail the ACC invitation - think about all that has occurred in the last twelve months. Too much uncertainty is a negative for SU.

Complications from a legal action, or other developments, might cause the ACC to rescind its invitation during the next 27 months. That would be a negative for SU.

The death of the BE could would likely result in some form of consolidation that would increase the likelihood of super conferences. That would likely result in Rutgers and UConn joining the ACC. That to me would be a negative for SU.

I would prefer that Rutgers and UConn stay in a BE that is stable. That would give SU an edge - not a huge edge perhaps - but an edge that would be helpful in recruiting and attendance and money.

Hoping for destruction is unrealisitc. It is unrealistic to think that Rutgers, UConn and others will end up in the MAC - that won't happen in my judgement.

So, instead of hoping for something that won't happen or that could come back to bite Syracuse University, I prefer a reconstituted BE that will continue the tradtion of a somewhat lower tier BCS conference while SU moves to a slightly better BCS conference.

 

[OrangePA]

Why do you think it's that unlikely?

Mizzou has an offer from the SEC and very well could join any day now. The Big 12 wants to expand if that happens and word has it Louisville, Cinci and WVU are atop their list. Who else would they invite? ECU? Houston? The Big East programs trump all other options.

Then - if the Big East is left with Rutgers, USF, and UConn, why would any school leave to join the Big East?

At that point, why wouldn't USF or even UConn and Rutgers (if invited) take their best (and only) option and join the MWCUSA? You can't have a 3-team football conference.

If UConn and Rutgers are then left hanging, then what else would they do?

And I've made this point to you before...if the ACC wants Rutgers and/or UConn, then they will invite them whether they are part of a stable Big East conference or not.

The ACC is not going to rescind the offer. Seems like a silly thing to worry about.

First, you have listed a series of possibilities. I understand all of that. My point was that I hope Mizzou stays put. I hope there is no mass changes because I think those mass changes could boomerang and hurt our position.

The ACC rescinded the offer in 2003. That was totally unexpected. And, though unlikely now, during a period of 27 months, it could happen again. You and I don't know what some politician might do or what some regulator might do or what some TV network might do.

I am trying to considering "what I don't know."

I just don't think your approach considers "what you don't know" and I think that's a dangerous way to operate.

The ACC will not want Rutgers or UConn if conferences remain at 10-14 teams. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I worry about the day when conferences go to 16 teams. I don't want that. I would like to see something that prevents that - prevening the ACC from having the motivation to expand to 16 teams.

I think it is more likely that Rutgers and UConn end up in the ACC than the MAC. And I don't want that. I would rather see those teams remain in the BE.

Time will tell whose analysis is right.

 

[SUATO92]

I mentioned at least some of the negatives in a previous post in this thread.

But since you have essentially instructed me to explain, I'll do it again for you.

Right now, the Orange is in the BE for the next 27 months.

If the BE dies there will be litigation involving Syracuse University - I have no doubt about that. That would be a negative from at least a financial standpoint. Litigation is always a bad idea - too much uncertainty and needless animosity results. UConn is still feeling the pinch of the lawsuit it filed years ago. So that would be negative for SU.

A lot can happen in 27 months - the more instability, the more uncertainty - the more likely something will happen that could derail the ACC invitation - think about all that has occurred in the last twelve months. Too much uncertainty is a negative for SU.

Complications from a legal action, or other developments, might cause the ACC to rescind its invitation during the next 27 months. That would be a negative for SU.

The death of the BE could would likely result in some form of consolidation that would increase the likelihood of super conferences. That would likely result in Rutgers and UConn joining the ACC. That to me would be a negative for SU.

I would prefer that Rutgers and UConn stay in a BE that is stable. That would give SU an edge - not a huge edge perhaps - but an edge that would be helpful in recruiting and attendance and money.

Hoping for destruction is unrealisitc. It is unrealistic to think that Rutgers, UConn and others will end up in the MAC - that won't happen in my judgement.

So, instead of hoping for something that won't happen or that could come back to bite Syracuse University, I prefer a reconstituted BE that will continue the tradtion of a somewhat lower tier BCS conference while SU moves to a slightly better BCS conference.

Companies in similar business space try to bump each other off all the time. SU and Pitt have contractual agreements with the ACC. The last time the Big East sued the ACC they won a bag of basketballs and and some used jockstraps. The scenarios you paint are fantastical so I will continue to hope for the utter destruction of the athletic departments of Rutgirls and UCONN...and NO i do not believe in karma. I believe in the law of the jungle...eat or be dinner.

 

[OrangePA]

That makes zero sense. The ACC added Pitt and SU because we add value. If the BE crumbles that doesn't change that fact. Actually it may add more value as there is less NE competition.

That's my question too. Respectfully, OPA, I still have not heard one good rationale for why it is in SU's best interests for the BE to rebuild successfully and retain their BCS bid.

I understand.

It seems that I have explained my point of view many times - a few times to you specifically I think.

No need need to do it again.

Lets see what happens.

 

[kingottoiii]

I mentioned at least some of the negatives in a previous post in this thread.

But since you have essentially instructed me to explain, I'll do it again for you.

Right now, the Orange is in the BE for the next 27 months.

If the BE dies there will be litigation involving Syracuse University - I have no doubt about that. That would be a negative from at least a financial standpoint. Litigation is always a bad idea - too much uncertainty and needless animosity results. UConn is still feeling the pinch of the lawsuit it filed years ago. So that would be negative for SU.

A lot can happen in 27 months - the more instability, the more uncertainty - the more likely something will happen that could derail the ACC invitation - think about all that has occurred in the last twelve months. Too much uncertainty is a negative for SU.

Complications from a legal action, or other developments, might cause the ACC to rescind its invitation during the next 27 months. That would be a negative for SU.

The death of the BE could would likely result in some form of consolidation that would increase the likelihood of super conferences. That would likely result in Rutgers and UConn joining the ACC. That to me would be a negative for SU.

I would prefer that Rutgers and UConn stay in a BE that is stable. That would give SU an edge - not a huge edge perhaps - but an edge that would be helpful in recruiting and attendance and money.

Hoping for destruction is unrealisitc. It is unrealistic to think that Rutgers, UConn and others will end up in the MAC - that won't happen in my judgement.

So, instead of hoping for something that won't happen or that could come back to bite Syracuse University, I prefer a reconstituted BE that will continue the tradtion of a somewhat lower tier BCS conference while SU moves to a slightly better BCS conference.

Everything you mentioned is waaaay more unrealistic than UConn or Ru ending up in the MAC.

-There is no possible litigation vs SU. We did not break any contract. It would be laughed out of the courts.

-The remaining BE schools could try a law suit vs the ACC but as 2004 should us, it would fail.

-SU HAS CERTAINTY. Why do we care about the uncertain?

-The ACC has no reason to rescind an invitation. First it would COST them money in lost TV revenue. Second it would likely cause a law suit from SU and Pitt for future income damages, that the ACC would HAVE to settle. SU and Pitt would win easily some sort of settlement. Why would the ACC make that move that will cost each school $2 million a year plus the settlement.

-If there is no BE FB then SU doesn't have to stay 27 months.

-Why would the ACC add RU and UConn if the BE died? If they wanted those two they would have taken them already. ACC ain't going to 16 with ND still in play. And ND won't be in play as long as the BE exists.

 

[Orangemen]

First, you have listed a series of possibilities. I understand all of that. My point was that I hope Mizzou stays put. I hope there is no mass changes because I think those mass changes could boomerang and hurt our position.

The ACC rescinded the offer in 2003. That was totally unexpected. And, though unlikely now, during a period of 27 months, it could happen again. You and I don't know what some politician might do or what some regulator might do or what some TV network might do.

I am trying to considering "what I don't know."

I just don't think your approach considers "what you don't know" and I think that's a dangerous way to operate.

The ACC will not want Rutgers or UConn if conferences remain at 10-14 teams. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I worry about the day when conferences go to 16 teams. I don't want that. I would like to see something that prevents that - prevening the ACC from having the motivation to expand to 16 teams.

I think it is more likely that Rutgers and UConn end up in the ACC than the MAC. And I don't want that. I would rather see those teams remain in the BE.

Time will tell whose analysis is right.

I see where you are coming from. From your standpoint, it sounds like your concerns revolve around possible litigation.

Based on UConn's 2003 experience, I wonder if they are less likely to litigate. That lawsuit is the reason they're not in the ACC now. If they feel like they are in a position with nothing to lose, maybe they'll go down that road again, but it's really a scorched earth strategy at that point.

I can't see any scenario where the ACC offer is pulled. From my understanding, the ACC never offered in 2003. I can't remember any conference pulling an accepted offer. It could happen, but it seems so remote as not to warrant any concern.

 

[OrangePA]

Companies in similar business space try to bump each other off all the time. SU and Pitt have contractual agreements with the ACC. The last time the Big East sued the ACC they won a bag of basketballs and and some used jockstraps. The scenarios you paint are fantastical so I will continue to hope for the utter destruction of the athletic departments of Rutgirls and UCONN...and NO i do not believe in karma. I believe in the law of the jungle...eat or be dinner.

Yeah, it was "fantastical" when Swofford called Jake in the summer of 2003 and rescinded the ACC offer.

And, it's "fantastical" that the lawsuit UConn filed - the BE did not sue the ACC - would have ramifications today - oops it did!

What's "fantastical" is the notion you have advanced that the States of New Jersey and Connecticut will allow their programs to be destroyed.

Paybacks are a bitch.

I have no desire to engage in or hope for the kind of "utter destruction" you mention.

Though you view them as enemies apparently, they are in fact business partners. Trying to destroy is not a good idea.

Better to make their situation palatable and move on to the ACC.

Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

 

[OrangePA]

I see where you are coming from. From your standpoint, it sounds like your concerns revolve around possible litigation.

Based on UConn's 2003 experience, I wonder if they are less likely to litigate. That lawsuit is the reason they're not in the ACC now. If they feel like they are in a position with nothing to lose, maybe they'll go down that road again, but it's really a scorched earth strategy at that point.

I can't see any scenario where the ACC offer is pulled. From my understanding, the ACC never offered in 2003. I can't remember any conference pulling an accepted offer. It could happen, but it seems so remote as not to warrant any concern.

Actually if you read Jake C's recollections the ACC offerred and we accepted.

And then the Governor of VA got involved.

Who knows if something like that could happen again.

I don't want to put anybody in a position of desperation.

 

[OrangePA]

Everything you mentioned is waaaay more unrealistic than UConn or Ru ending up in the MAC.

-There is no possible litigation vs SU. We did not break any contract. It would be laughed out of the courts.

-The remaining BE schools could try a law suit vs the ACC but as 2004 should us, it would fail.

-SU HAS CERTAINTY. Why do we care about the uncertain?

-The ACC has no reason to rescind an invitation. First it would COST them money in lost TV revenue. Second it would likely cause a law suit from SU and Pitt for future income damages, that the ACC would HAVE to settle. SU and Pitt would win easily some sort of settlement. Why would the ACC make that move that will cost each school $2 million a year plus the settlement.

-If there is no BE FB then SU doesn't have to stay 27 months.

-Why would the ACC add RU and UConn if the BE died? If they wanted those two they would have taken them already. ACC ain't going to 16 with ND still in play. And ND won't be in play as long as the BE exists.

As is usually the case, we disagree.

Your certainty in matters of the law is remarkable to me. Are you an attorney?

I have tried to be a good lawyer for nearly 30 years with varying degrees of success.

One thing I have learned is that nothing in the law is certain. That's what makes it so frustrating and so invigorating at the same time.

Look. I hope that all of this turns out well for Syracuse University.

But, I always feel funny about hoping for the destruction of others including my opponents in legal matters. Things have a way of boomeranging and I don't want that here.

I want stability and predictability and I don't want to create an environment where Rutgers and UConn and others feel so much desparation that they take action that we never anticipated.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Actually if you read Jake C's recollections the ACC offerred and we accepted.

And then the Governor of VA got involved.

Didn't the ACC need 7 votes to officially extend SU an offer?

 

[sufan]

First, you have listed a series of possibilities. I understand all of that. My point was that I hope Mizzou stays put. I hope there is no mass changes because I think those mass changes could boomerang and hurt our position.

The ACC rescinded the offer in 2003. That was totally unexpected. And, though unlikely now, during a period of 27 months, it could happen again. You and I don't know what some politician might do or what some regulator might do or what some TV network might do.

I am trying to considering "what I don't know."

I just don't think your approach considers "what you don't know" and I think that's a dangerous way to operate.

The ACC will not want Rutgers or UConn if conferences remain at 10-14 teams. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I worry about the day when conferences go to 16 teams. I don't want that. I would like to see something that prevents that - prevening the ACC from having the motivation to expand to 16 teams.

I think it is more likely that Rutgers and UConn end up in the ACC than the MAC. And I don't want that. I would rather see those teams remain in the BE.

Time will tell whose analysis is right.

----------

The ACC did NOT rescind an offer to SU to join the conference in 2003.

The initial ACC vote was to invite SU, BC and Miami to submit applications for membership. If you remember, the ACC sent an evaluation committee to visit SU.

It turned out SU lacked the votes for ACC membership.

This time around, the ACC voted and SU accepted the ACC offer to join. There are no other votes scheduled. It's done.

 

[Chip]

As is usually the case, we disagree.

Your certainty in matters of the law is remarkable to me. Are you an attorney?

I have tried to be a good lawyer for nearly 30 years with varying degrees of success.

One thing I have learned is that nothing in the law is certain. That's what makes it so frustrating and so invigorating at the same time.

Look. I hope that all of this turns out well for Syracuse University.

But, I always feel funny about hoping for the destruction of others including my opponents in legal matters. Things have a way of boomeranging and I don't want that here.

I want stability and predictability and I don't want to create an environment where Rutgers and UConn and others feel so much desparation that they take action that we never anticipated.

Couple things, and I'll admit, I'm tackling them from a position of not at all being in the know.

I don't believe that SU really had an offer to the ACC. I think we had an agreement, a handshake, whatever. But whatever it is that formalizes that process, the VA Governor beat us to it. Wasn't it made public record that the schools hadn't voted on the offer? This time around, they've all voted, they've all accepted, they've had a press conference to announce it, which means somewhere in this great world there has to be something written that has formalized this per ACC bylaws. Short of SU doing something completely unethical (knock knock...wood...wood), how could they rescind at this point? Seemed easy to rescind last time, because the only thing that was ever announced was that they were doing a site visit.

As far as a Big East lawsuit, again, I'm talking out of school, but who would that lawsuit be against if the BE football folds. Would it be against the ACC? the Big 12? Both? And if the "Big East" is the suing party, does that mean that whatever schools that remain are the ones whose names are on the lawsuit? Can you imagine any scenario right now where UConn or Rutgers would sign up for that? They are both hoping to be either the ACC's 16th or the Big 10's 14th team. Jump into a lawsuit, and you can probably close the book on that.

Short of some Rutgers or UConn whack job fan bringing a gun to accompany their instability and anger to a game, I'm not worried about playing out the 27 months of the Deadweight East. I don't want to do it, but it's not something I worry about. Maybe I'll be wrong.

 

[OrangePA]

----------

The ACC did NOT rescind an offer to SU to join the conference in 2003.

The initial ACC vote was to invite SU, BC and Miami to submit applications for membership. If you remember, the ACC sent an evaluation committee to visit SU.

It turned out SU lacked the votes for ACC membership.

This time around, the ACC voted and SU accepted the ACC offer to join. There are no other votes scheduled. It's done.

I don't think you're right.

According to Jake "we were invited" to the ACC.

Listen to interview with Axe.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2011/09/former_syracuse_athletic_direc.html

 

[fanfanclubclub]

That's my question too. Respectfully, OPA, I still have not heard one good rationale for why it is in SU's best interests for the BE to rebuild successfully and retain their BCS bid.

Here is why.

First, the part that everybody understands: right now, the Cuse stands to benefit HUGELY from "product scarcity." Cuse, BC, Pitt, and Penn State are the only northeast major sports programs, and of those 4 teams, Syracuse and Penn State have the most appeal in the media capital of the world. Syracuse even has a minor competitive advantage relative to Penn State regarding East Coast media appeal because of ACC membership, whereas Penn State is stuck playing Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Iowa, etc.

Second, the part that many Syracuse fans seem to have missed: Rutgers and UConn are very high on the list for ACC and BIG10 expansion, partly because Notre Dame considers these schools to bring valuable tv markets and east coast lil sister competition. Much of the commercial appeal that Syracuse has, is replicated in crappier degrees by UConn and Rutgers. So as much as we want to pretend otherwise, UConn and Rutgers are not going to be left out in the cold. UConn will not go to the MAAC or A-10, and Rutgers will not cancel it's football program.

So, for UConn and Rutgers, there are only three outcomes:
(1) ACC,
(2) Big10,
(3) some-weird-Notre-Dame-driven-monstrosity, contrived merely to serve N.D's interests through leverage vis-a-vis TV executives and the NCAA (also known as the Newest Big East).

Syracuse would be best served with Rutgers and UConn "surviving" in the Newest Big East. Any other realistic outcome would put Rutgers and UConn roughly on par with the Cuse and diminish the product scarcity we are currently projected to enjoy.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

I mentioned at least some of the negatives in a previous post in this thread.

But since you have essentially instructed me to explain, I'll do it again for you.

Right now, the Orange is in the BE for the next 27 months.

If the BE dies there will be litigation involving Syracuse University - I have no doubt about that. That would be a negative from at least a financial standpoint. Litigation is always a bad idea - too much uncertainty and needless animosity results. UConn is still feeling the pinch of the lawsuit it filed years ago. So that would be negative for SU.

A lot can happen in 27 months - the more instability, the more uncertainty - the more likely something will happen that could derail the ACC invitation - think about all that has occurred in the last twelve months. Too much uncertainty is a negative for SU.

Complications from a legal action, or other developments, might cause the ACC to rescind its invitation during the next 27 months. That would be a negative for SU.

The death of the BE could would likely result in some form of consolidation that would increase the likelihood of super conferences. That would likely result in Rutgers and UConn joining the ACC. That to me would be a negative for SU.

I would prefer that Rutgers and UConn stay in a BE that is stable. That would give SU an edge - not a huge edge perhaps - but an edge that would be helpful in recruiting and attendance and money.

Hoping for destruction is unrealisitc. It is unrealistic to think that Rutgers, UConn and others will end up in the MAC - that won't happen in my judgement.

So, instead of hoping for something that won't happen or that could come back to bite Syracuse University, I prefer a reconstituted BE that will continue the tradtion of a somewhat lower tier BCS conference while SU moves to a slightly better BCS conference.

As we both know only to well, anyone can sue anyone else for anything at anytime. However, that does not mean the suit will have merit. And in the hypothetical that the Big East or some combination of schools would sue SU/Pitt for their "within rights" (at least according to the Big East charter) move to another conference, there would be very little merit. This is even more the case when the Big East goes out and "takes" schools from another conference to fill the void left by SU/Pitt.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is little worry on the part of those involved regarding any potential lawsuit. I realize you talk to different folks then I do ... but that is at least the consensus opinion. It is a done deal. We are patiently waiting on the Big East to do what they are doing and then we will have "serious" discussions regarding those 27-months.

Peace

 

[Scooch]

I don't think you're right.

According to Jake "we were invited" to the ACC.

Listen to interview with Axe.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2011/09/former_syracuse_athletic_direc.html

Jake's using "invited" pretty loosely.

SU was never voted for by the ACC membership to receive a formal invite in 2003.

Why do you think things went down the way they did this time?

 

[fanfanclubclub]

The death of the BE could would likely result in some form of consolidation that would increase the likelihood of super conferences. That would likely result in Rutgers and UConn joining the ACC. That to me would be a negative for SU.

Lot's of good points from OrangePA. This point seems the most important to me.

All the narratives about the Big 12 or Big East surviving, merging, or expanding are all just back stories to the Notre Dame and Texas leverage strategies.

If the Big East survives, it means that Notre Dame has a few years left of playing games and bucking the 4 superconference system, thereby keeping UConn and Rutgers twisting in the wind, riddled with uncertainty.

Whether we end up with 4 superconferences, or stay with 5 or 6 AQs, both Rutgers and UConn will have a seat. IMO, the best we can hope is that Notre Dame screws Rutgers and UConn for a few more years.

 

[orange79]

I don't think you're right.

According to Jake "we were invited" to the ACC.

Listen to interview with Axe.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2011/09/former_syracuse_athletic_direc.html

I think Jake was using the term 'invited' not literally, but generally. We were told they were interested. They visited the campus, doing their 'due diligence" (although I'm not sure what they needed to see that they couldn't have found out - probably just a chance to shmooze). They told us that they were going to vote on making an offer and that they believed an offer would then be forthcoming. Then VA politics intervened. End of story.

I agree with some of your thoughts. Disagree with others. I agree I would rather have UConn and RU in a weakened BE, or the MAC. Not a lawyer, but I highly doubt there would be a lawsuit, at least one involving us. The remaining teams can't afford another loss (which I have to believe would be the outcome). They also should not want to bite the potential hand that feeds them. If there is room for expansion in the future, they can't take the chance of our being vindictive and trying to blackball them (see BC-UConn).