Sometimes in life, the one you want and need

[Cusefan95]

They don't even need to hug it out; if they want to act like rivals... BB might be able to channel that to SU's benefit.

Can you expand on that - what might that look like? Keep in mind that AWs use of social media was a (the?) major issue, any solution is going to require a radically different approach by AW going forward.

 

[HenryC]

Anyone being honest with themselves will realize hiring GMac is a high variance decision. That’s inherent in hiring a guy with a total of two years experience - there isn’t a lot of history to judge. It could work out great. It could also be a disaster. High ceiling, very low floor. I’d rather we get a coach with a much higher floor, even if that means a lower ceiling, because we absolutely need this hiring to be successful. I’ll consider successful a guy who gets us into the tournament most years, even if Syracuse is generally a #6-11 seed.

I’m not generally risk averse - I’ve said I will consider the Fran Brown hiring a success no matter how it plays out from here. We needed an outside the box hire with a chance to be a grand slam - part of that is taking on the risk of a guy with a low ceiling. We’ve already seen “high ceiling, low floor” play out in just two years in football (which is frankly astonishing, I can’t think of any other time I’ve seen that).

I don’t think this is the time for Syracuse basketball to be trying to hit a grand slam with a big risk of a strikeout. It’s the time for a high OBP guy who will get us a single. I’ll settle for a walk. A strikeout is probably fatal to the program’s relevance.

For G-Mac it is risky. Win you are a hero. Lose and your head coach career goes off the rails. With a young family probably wise to wait build a resume see If Cuse can rebuild.

 

[xc84]

Wasn’t the biggest fan of BH, would have preferred him over GMac.

Floors and ceilings are a subjective assessment of actual available quantifiable data. There’s very, very, very, very little data to actually justify GMac - it’s all incredibly subjective non-data. How tough he was as a player is irrelevant. That he won as a player is irrelevant. That he would “win the press conference” doesn’t matter. That we might sell more tickets next year doesn’t matter (long term). Hiring Gerry comes down to - he took a decent team in a terrible conference to the NCAAs and played Duke tough. It’s a two game sample size that we’re going to hire a coach on? That’s not ideal. If his name was John Smith and he just took Siena to the NCAAs, and the media announced he was a candidate - this board would be losing its mind with rage. If you’re honest with yourself, wanting him as coach has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with him as a coach. It’s a purely emotional decision people here are finding ways to rationalize. (One of the ways it’s obvious this is pure emotion is people getting upset at fans not excited about GMac claiming it’s all not wanting to hire a Syracuse guy, or “dumping” on him. It’s irrational stupidity driven by emotion). Very seldom in life do purely emotional decisions that you find ways to rationalize work out well.

If we hire GMac, maybe we’ll get lucky. But that’s what we’re hoping for - luck. And much more than if we hired a candidate with a longer track record of success.

To say he has a “2 game sample size” is disingenuous. In his first year as a HC, he improved the number of wins relative to the prior year +10. In his second year, +9. So in two years +19. It is not “subjective non-data” and a significant achievement. It is part of why he is being considered by SU and others.

 

[Cusefan95]

To say he has a “2 game sample size” is disingenuous. In his first year as a HC, he improved the number of wins relative to the prior year +10. In his second year, +9. So in two years +19. It is not “subjective non-data”.

A coach takes a four win team to 14 wins in year one, a third place finish in one of the worst leagues in basketball in year two, then loses the championship game. Are we still talking about him as a candidate?

No. He’s a candidate because of one win and a close loss to Duke. It’s a two game sample size.

I get that the GMac glazers really want to buff that resume up to look spectacular - but it’s objectively not a resume any of us would be remotely excited about if his name wasn’t McNamara. And the gaslighting about “people don’t want him because they just want a guy not tied to Syracuse” is what’s actually disingenuous. His ties to Syracuse is the only reason people are excited about him - if you look at the resume and not the name, there is no chance you or anyone else here would be excited.

 

[xc84]

A coach takes a four win team to 14 wins in year one, a third place finish in one of the worst leagues in basketball in year two, then loses the championship game. Are we still talking about him as a candidate?

No. He’s a candidate because of one win and a close loss to Duke. It’s a two game sample size.

I get that the GMac glazers really want to buff that resume up to look spectacular - but it’s objectively not a resume any of us would be remotely excited about if his name wasn’t McNamara. And the gaslighting about “people don’t want him because they just want a guy not tied to Syracuse” is what’s actually disingenuous. His ties to Syracuse is the only reason people are excited about him - if you look at the resume and not the name, there is no chance you or anyone else here would be excited.

“then loses the championship game.”

??

His team won the championship game. That’s why they played Duke in the NCAA tournament. They beat the top seed. At least get your facts straight.

 

[OttosShoes]

Ties to Syracuse are a valid impact though.

We know he doesn't mind living here, and that he'll have close family support. We know our (non-hardcore) fans like him. He'll get up to speed more quickly. It will draw more media coverage. Especially after yesterday; the Duke-Syracuse rivalry has all but fizzled out, but bringing him back could start that up again with a GMac/Scheyer yarn. The two wunderkind players that became wunderkind coaches battling it out.

Given two resumes that are otherwise reasonably close that's enough.

 

[Cusefan95]

“then loses the championship game.”

??

His team won the championship game. That’s why they played Duke in the NCAA tournament. They beat the top seed. At least get your facts straight.

So it’s a two game sample size we’re deciding on, just like I said. Glad we’re finally on the same page!

 

[Cuseregular]

“then loses the championship game.”

??

His team won the championship game. That’s why they played Duke in the NCAA tournament. They beat the top seed. At least get your facts straight.

Dude it’s not worth it, these haters are hopeless

 

[xc84]

So it’s a two game sample size we’re deciding on, just like I said. Glad we’re finally on the same page!

Using your logic, Hodgeson only has a 2 game sample size. Like Gerry, he is 1-1 in that sample. Hard to take you seriously with that logic. Gerry has coached 67 games… not 2.

 

[Niastri]

One thing in the GM vs BH discussion - despite USF being a better league- Doty I think is a better player at this level than Enis ( especially given his size) and the second guy you would want from either team favors GM too in a super physical guy like Folefac who is still just a freshman. The second player after Enis is hard to figure maybe it’s Hightower or CJ Brown but as for value I think oddly enough you get more with bringing those two from Siena than any combo from USF. Obviously if Nelson and Pinion or even Omajofo had eligibility that would be a different answer.

All that said Martelli would have the most he could bring with him player wise for sure of nearly any of the candidates.

If we are considering who the new coach can bring to the ACC and Syracuse up from a lower level as even a hint of a criteria for the hiring, we are already sunk.

The two best players on sienna and their top recruit are all guys that should be nine through 12 in our rotation.

If we hire McNamara, or anybody else, it's because we think they can recruit at a high-level manage the program at a high leve, raise NIL Funds at a high-levelNIL Funds at a high-level, and coach at a high level.

If they happen to pull the best players from their previous team to Syracuse, to be part of the rotation, I guess that's OK. But it definitely shouldn't be a priority of the hiring process for the new coach.

 

[Cusefan95]

Using your logic, Hodgeson only has a 2 game sample size. Like Gerry, he is 1-1 in that sample. Hard to take you seriously with that logic. Gerry has coached 67 games… not 2.

If you want to look at 67 games - he took a team from terrible to mediocre at best in year one, then third place in one of the worst leagues in college basketball. Hodgson’s overall body of work is better. And - note extremely well that I was not one of the people advocating for BH.

Would you be excited about a MAAC coach with two years as head coach, with 14 wins in year one and a third place finish and tournament title in year two if he was NOT named Gerry McNamara? Because if you lie and say “yes, absolutely!” - then I would say it’s hard to take you seriously. This is 100% about a name and not about actual coaching performance.

 

[Niastri]

For G-Mac it is risky. Win you are a hero. Lose and your head coach career goes off the rails. With a young family probably wise to wait build a resume see If Cuse can rebuild.

I would argue exactly that… If McNamara can get a three-year contract $2 million salary annually, that's after taxes $3.3 million in his pocket irrespective of every other dollar he ever made or will make in the future.

If you get offered a job at that level, you take it.

That would be looking out for his family, not slogging along at a low major hoping another opportunity comes up.

 

[orangepassion]

For G-Mac it is risky. Win you are a hero. Lose and your head coach career goes off the rails. With a young family probably wise to wait build a resume see If Cuse can rebuild.

As opposed to any other job?

 

[Hawknate144]

If you want to look at 67 games - he took a team from terrible to mediocre at best in year one, then third place in one of the worst leagues in college basketball. Hodgson’s overall body of work is better. And - note extremely well that I was not one of the people advocating for BH.

Would you be excited about a MAAC coach with two years as head coach, with 14 wins in year one and a third place finish and tournament title in year two if he was NOT named Gerry McNamara? Because if you lie and say “yes, absolutely!” - then I would say it’s hard to take you seriously. This is 100% about a name and not about actual coaching performance.

Ok, that's basically the resume Hodgson had last year, sans the tournament appearance and I'm guessing if we had hired him last year you would not have been like this.

 

[Teddy19]

As opposed to any other job?

He's got a young family that only knows Syracuse, other than the last two years in the Capital Region. I don't think there's a better prospect for stability for a head coach's young family than going back to Cuse and potentially staying there for good.

 

[Cusefan95]

Ok, that's basically the resume Hodgson had last year, sans the tournament appearance and I'm guessing if we had hired him last year you would not have been like this.

Wrong. But thanks for continuing to prove that GMac supporters need to invent positions people like me never had and never expressed to argue against.

You guys are phenomenal at strawmanning.

 

[xc84]

If you want to look at 67 games - he took a team from terrible to mediocre at best in year one, then third place in one of the worst leagues in college basketball. Hodgson’s overall body of work is better. And - note extremely well that I was not one of the people advocating for BH.

Would you be excited about a MAAC coach with two years as head coach, with 14 wins in year one and a third place finish and tournament title in year two if he was NOT named Gerry McNamara? Because if you lie and say “yes, absolutely!” - then I would say it’s hard to take you seriously. This is 100% about a name and not about actual coaching performance.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I’m out

 

[Cusefan95]

Ties to Syracuse are a valid impact though.

We know he doesn't mind living here, and that he'll have close family support. We know our (non-hardcore) fans like him. He'll get up to speed more quickly. It will draw more media coverage. Especially after yesterday; the Duke-Syracuse rivalry has all but fizzled out, but bringing him back could start that up again with a GMac/Scheyer yarn. The two wunderkind players that became wunderkind coaches battling it out.

Given two resumes that are otherwise reasonably close that's enough.

That is using Syracuse ties as a cherry on top of a great resume. That’s fine. I’d rather we be looking at candidates with much deeper and successful resumes than two years coaching at one of the worst leagues in college basketball. That it’s even arguable that there are no such viable candidates out there and Syracuse ties could be a cherry on top for Gerry should scare the crap out of people.

Fran McCaffery had 14 years as a head coach with 5 NCAA tournament appearances before he left Siena for Iowa. That’s not what we’re looking at with McNamara. That’s scary, and means whoever we hire is going to be a very high risk hire. Not good.

 

[OttosShoes]

That is using Syracuse ties as a cherry on top of a great resume. That’s fine. I’d rather we be looking at candidates with much deeper and successful resumes than two years coaching at one of the worst leagues in college basketball. That it’s even arguable that there are no such viable candidates out there and Syracuse ties could be a cherry on top for Gerry should scare the crap out of people.

Fran McCaffery had 14 years as a head coach with 5 NCAA tournament appearances before he left Siena for Iowa. That’s not what we’re looking at with McNamara. That’s scary, and means whoever we hire is going to be a very high risk hire. Not good.

Yeah that's fair. I think this year's coaches carousel is a bit of a sellers market. Coaches are happy to stay put because there's a lot of really lucrative jobs on the hot seat that may open next year.

If there were some sort of "lease a coach for a year" service where you could do a 1-yr trial on this year's carousel and then in 2027 check that [likely much larger] market we'd be all over it.