Sources: ESPN OK's option to televise ACC sports through '36

[kcsu]

How so? Short term it puts us at an even bigger disadvantage. Long term it does nothing.

The proposal is to take money out of our pocket and give schools a get out of jail free card in 5 years, and in return we get what? Peace? Big deal. I rather rip off the bandaid now. IMO this puts the B12 in better standing.

Not even close to being accurate.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Not even close to being accurate.

What is SU getting out of taking less money and allowing teams a way out in 2031 (which means they announce in 2029)?

Having non merit based compensation leads to division (see BEVO 12). Letting teams out in 2031 makes the ACC less stable. This actually moves the death date of the ACC up 5 years. How is that a good thing for the ACC or SU?

Why would a B12 team leave for a less stable ACC? Wouldn't a school like Louisville or even SMU have their eye on the B12 in 2031 knowing that UNC, UVA, Clemson, FSU, and maybe others will announce in 2029 or 2030 that they are leaving?

This new agreement is just keeping everyone together until the kids get to college. That is never a good thing.

 

[kcsu]

What is SU getting out of taking less money and allowing teams a way out in 2031 (which means they announce in 2029)?

Having non merit based compensation leads to division (see BEVO 12). Letting teams out in 2031 makes the ACC less stable. This actually moves the death date of the ACC up 5 years. How is that a good thing for the ACC or SU?
bo
Why would a B12 team leave for a less stable ACC? Wouldn't a school like Louisville or even SMU have their eye on the B12 in 2031 knowing that UNC, UVA, Clemson, FSU, and maybe others will announce in 2029 or 2030 that they are leaving?

This new agreement is just keeping everyone together until the kids get to college. That is never a good thing.

We don't know what the actual terms are. My take based on the limited information available is that teams will all get a base payout which is equal. Merit compensation i believe will be based on three things. Wins, Post season, and TV ratings. My point was that in giving Clemson and FSU extra ND games they are in essence guaranteeing them good ratings which would increase their compensation. I don't know if the increase in ratings which obviously generates additional advertising revenue for both ESPN and the ACCN/League is shared equally by all members or not. My assumption is that it will increase all members distribution but will disproportionally pay Clemson and FSU an extra amount because they are the schools that will have competed in the games that drove the viewership. Again, all speculation on my part. However, if this is true it isn't hurting Syracuse and the other schools. It is actually helping them. Just that it is helping the teams that drive the viewership more. So, in essence it stays in line with a merit-based distribution plan.

 

[Franz69]

FSU should be relegated. Bums.

 

[WoadBlue]

We don't know what the actual terms are. My take based on the limited information available is that teams will all get a base payout which is equal. Merit compensation i believe will be based on three things. Wins, Post season, and TV ratings. My point was that in giving Clemson and FSU extra ND games they are in essence guaranteeing them good ratings which would increase their compensation. I don't know if the increase in ratings which obviously generates additional advertising revenue for both ESPN and the ACCN/League is shared equally by all members or not. My assumption is that it will increase all members distribution but will disproportionally pay Clemson and FSU an extra amount because they are the schools that will have competed in the games that drove the viewership. Again, all speculation on my part. However, if this is true it isn't hurting Syracuse and the other schools. It is actually helping them. Just that it is helping the teams that drive the viewership more. So, in essence it stays in line with a merit-based distribution plan.

ND draw eyeball like the Ohio ST and Bama. It isagiven that Bama draws many more playing Auburn or Ole. its than it does playing Vandy. So ND playing Clemson will draw more than ND playing Wake. SO the more that ND plays a Wake or FSU or Miami or even UNC rather a Wake, the more that people will watch ND ON ESPN. The more TV viewers thus drawn to an ACC football game.

This math in regard to TV viewer numbers is very simple. And that is THE determining factor in TV deals.

 

[HtownOrange]

From the ESPN article: ESPN picks up option to televise ACC through '36

Between the brand and success initiatives, it is expected that the ACC schools that maximize both revenue streams could close the gap with Big Ten and SEC schools to as little as a few million annually.

The discussion is internal to the ACC and there are proposals. However, if a proposal will get the top ACC teams to within "a few million annually" there must be a large increase coming forth. I have no inside info, but I find it hard to believe the lesser teams will agree to a severe cut in their revenue. If FSU and Clemson are going, why not take the money now and build the best AD you can to grab a potential open slot, maybe knock them out of contention (eleven years is a long time), and by no means assist Clemson and FSU to get out easy?

I am guessing, but I think there is probably a decent sized adjustment in the future to make the ACC a solid #3 conference and close enough for ESPN to preserve the conference without losing anything to the B1G and keeping the SEC "as is". Recall that the ACC is a profit center for ESPN/The Mickey Corp. There remains no business basis for ESPN conceding the northeast to Fox and essentially cutting themselves out of the northeast college sports scene for decades to come.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[baggerbob]

From the ESPN article: ESPN picks up option to televise ACC through '36

Between the brand and success initiatives, it is expected that the ACC schools that maximize both revenue streams could close the gap with Big Ten and SEC schools to as little as a few million annually.

The discussion is internal to the ACC and there are proposals. However, if a proposal will get the top ACC teams to within "a few million annually" there must be a large increase coming forth. I have no inside info, but I find it hard to believe the lesser teams will agree to a severe cut in their revenue. If FSU and Clemson are going, why not take the money now and build the best AD you can to grab a potential open slot, maybe knock them out of contention (eleven years is a long time), and by no means assist Clemson and FSU to get out easy?

I am guessing, but I think there is probably a decent sized adjustment in the future to make the ACC a solid #3 conference and close enough for ESPN to preserve the conference without losing anything to the B1G and keeping the SEC "as is". Recall that the ACC is a profit center for ESPN/The Mickey Corp. There remains no business basis for ESPN conceding the northeast to Fox and essentially cutting themselves out of the northeast college sports scene for decades to come.

Anyway, just a thought.

2 things happened this year that have changed things, Fran Brown, and Bill Belichick.
Personalities who win football games, is always a selling point for TV.
I believe the referees are going to be fairer in their calls this year, especially when we boat race Tennessee.
Having a charismatic winning coach at Syracuse is good for the conference.

 

[HtownOrange]

2 things happened this year that have changed things, Fran Brown, and Bill Belichick.
Personalities who win football games, is always a selling point for TV.
I believe the referees are going to be fairer in their calls this year, especially when we boat race Tennessee.
Having a charismatic winning coach at Syracuse is good for the conference.

I hope you are correct. A few calls in our direction instead of automatically going south would be beneficial.

 

[Toga]

2 things happened this year that have changed things, Fran Brown, and Bill Belichick.
Personalities who win football games, is always a selling point for TV.
I believe the referees are going to be fairer in their calls this year, especially when we boat race Tennessee.
Having a charismatic winning coach at Syracuse is good for the conference.

Let's be very very sure we don't commit some grievous uniform violation.

 

[HtownOrange]

Let's be very very sure we don't commit some grievous uniform violation.

I am sure the SEC refs will be well schooled in uniform and other obscure infractions which may be used in a pinch to ensure Tennessee has a "fair" chance of winning.

 

[WoadBlue]

From the ESPN article: ESPN picks up option to televise ACC through '36

Between the brand and success initiatives, it is expected that the ACC schools that maximize both revenue streams could close the gap with Big Ten and SEC schools to as little as a few million annually.

The discussion is internal to the ACC and there are proposals. However, if a proposal will get the top ACC teams to within "a few million annually" there must be a large increase coming forth. I have no inside info, but I find it hard to believe the lesser teams will agree to a severe cut in their revenue. If FSU and Clemson are going, why not take the money now and build the best AD you can to grab a potential open slot, maybe knock them out of contention (eleven years is a long time), and by no means assist Clemson and FSU to get out easy?

I am guessing, but I think there is probably a decent sized adjustment in the future to make the ACC a solid #3 conference and close enough for ESPN to preserve the conference without losing anything to the B1G and keeping the SEC "as is". Recall that the ACC is a profit center for ESPN/The Mickey Corp. There remains no business basis for ESPN conceding the northeast to Fox and essentially cutting themselves out of the northeast college sports scene for decades to come.

Anyway, just a thought.

Does a business lose money when it stops trying to force a region that barely notices its products to buy them?

The simple fact is that pro capita the northeast just does not care much for Major CFB. There are 2, and only 2, exceptions: ND and Penn St. So the entire region has only 1 school located in it that has a large and passionate CFB fan base. Now, I do think that if ND and PSU were Biot in the same conference with Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and Rutgers, then there wounds a good possibility that over time, the Northeast could become a much better region for passionate following of CFB. That would be the football version of what Gavotte did for CBB in the northeast - and unlike the hoops version, that league still would need to have as many teams located outside the northeast as in the northeast to be truly widely watched and respected.

The BT has PSU and so has all the power over the per capita small northeastern TV audience for Major CFB.

For the ACC to become, and remain, the clear and permanent #3 in terms of TV revenue, it must become the one and only Major conference to have teams in MT. That is a lot of space, and many of those states now have growing populations. Growth potential in a region that historically has always been left out of Major Conference participation (until Colorado joined the then Big 7 and later the Pac added the AZ. schools - and even with that trio plus Utah would be somewhat underrepresented among major conferedceees per its TV viewers numbers per capita). Also add Cincy, which is a very large state school in a state that is as HS and CFB obsessed as any Southern state - making Cincy an anti-BC of sorts.

 

[All4SU]

FSU and Clemson are looking for reduced penalties if they leave as early as 2031. That’s when the other conference’s TV deals are up.

I have a hunch they’ll get that concession. It gives the league membership 5-7 years to plan their future. Because it’s inevitable that at least a handful of ACC schools are going to leave for the B1G and/or SEC.

I’ll just keep repeating that the left-behinds of the ACC (which will likely include us) should start overtures to the Big 12 soon-ish. We’ll need to form the 3rd best conference behind the Power 2.

You can’t get increased shares for brand “rating” AND reduced penalties. Pick one.

I’d love to hear Wildhack’s take on all of this.

 

[Red2003]

You can’t get increased shares for brand “rating” AND reduced penalties. Pick one.

I’d love to hear Wildhack’s take on all of this.

No one cares what Wildhack thinks in the ACC. I think they'd pick up the phone for Fran over him. Now if somehow next year there's a miracle and Tenn or Clemson or ND get clipped somehow or are coming up to the dome to play the next few years and we're derailing their playoff runs maybe the opinions of our CNY football team will matter more. Right now we're just along for the ride though.

 

[HtownOrange]

Does a business lose money when it stops trying to force a region that barely notices its products to buy them?

The simple fact is that pro capita the northeast just does not care much for Major CFB. There are 2, and only 2, exceptions: ND and Penn St. So the entire region has only 1 school located in it that has a large and passionate CFB fan base. Now, I do think that if ND and PSU were Biot in the same conference with Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and Rutgers, then there wounds a good possibility that over time, the Northeast could become a much better region for passionate following of CFB. That would be the football version of what Gavotte did for CBB in the northeast - and unlike the hoops version, that league still would need to have as many teams located outside the northeast as in the northeast to be truly widely watched and respected.

The BT has PSU and so has all the power over the per capita small northeastern TV audience for Major CFB.

For the ACC to become, and remain, the clear and permanent #3 in terms of TV revenue, it must become the one and only Major conference to have teams in MT. That is a lot of space, and many of those states now have growing populations. Growth potential in a region that historically has always been left out of Major Conference participation (until Colorado joined the then Big 7 and later the Pac added the AZ. schools - and even with that trio plus Utah would be somewhat underrepresented among major conferedceees per its TV viewers numbers per capita). Also add Cincy, which is a very large state school in a state that is as HS and CFB obsessed as any Southern state - making Cincy an anti-BC of sorts.

I think you misunderstand the northeast. Sure, if you think you can force CFB into a vacuum and separate it from all else, you may have a valid point. However, the northeast is far different than your analysis.

First, the northeast will follow a winner. Historically, the greatest concentration of pro teams is in the northeast which affects the college scene, to be sure. Yet fans will follow a winner, your point verifies this. When Syracuse was winning in football, the state followed. When Pitt was winning in football, they had a following.

Second, the northeast, though more compact than other regions geographically, still maintains the greatest concentration of people.

Third, PSU and ND don’t carry all fans. There is a large group of fans refusing to watch either or both. With a large concentration of smaller schools, it is easier to simply ignore that these same schools have loyal followings and would be loyal to winning teams in their region (I.e. SU, Pitt) not named PSU or ND.

Fourth, the northeast does not separate one sport out a in a vacuum. This is a costly mistake many people assume but the networks understand. In a region where CBB rivals CFB or may even exceed it, cutting off the nose to spite one’s face is not recommended. See, Second point.

Fifth, assuming an attempt to place CFB in a vacuum, I think you force the government’s hand with respect to Title IX, NIL, etc. Government involvement is the last thing anyone wants in college sports.

Sixth, upstate New York has roughly the same population as New Jersey or Virginia. That places upstate NY just outside the top 10 most populous states. This number matters far more than you think as PUS and ND fans are largely concentrated in downstate, which explains why Rutgers has so little market penetration into NYC. SU has better market penetration in NYC than Rutgers.

Anyway, dismiss the northeast, you have a right to your opinion. The networks and streamers think otherwise based on their actions.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I think you misunderstand the northeast. Sure, if you think you can force CFB into a vacuum and separate it from all else, you may have a valid point. However, the northeast is far different than your analysis.

First, the northeast will follow a winner. Historically, the greatest concentration of pro teams is in the northeast which affects the college scene, to be sure. Yet fans will follow a winner, your point verifies this. When Syracuse was winning in football, the state followed. When Pitt was winning in football, they had a following.

Second, the northeast, though more compact than other regions geographically, still maintains the greatest concentration of people.

Third, PSU and ND don’t carry all fans. There is a large group of fans refusing to watch either or both. With a large concentration of smaller schools, it is easier to simply ignore that these same schools have loyal followings and would be loyal to winning teams in their region (I.e. SU, Pitt) not named PSU or ND.

Fourth, the northeast does not separate one sport out a in a vacuum. This is a costly mistake many people assume but the networks understand. In a region where CBB rivals CFB or may even exceed it, cutting off the nose to spite one’s face is not recommended. See, Second point.

Fifth, assuming an attempt to place CFB in a vacuum, I think you force the government’s hand with respect to Title IX, NIL, etc. Government involvement is the last thing anyone wants in college sports.

Sixth, upstate New York has roughly the same population as New Jersey or Virginia. That places upstate NY just outside the top 10 most populous states. This number matters far more than you think as PUS and ND fans are largely concentrated in downstate, which explains why Rutgers has so little market penetration into NYC. SU has better market penetration in NYC than Rutgers.

Anyway, dismiss the northeast, you have a right to your opinion. The networks and streamers think otherwise based on their actions.

all of this is why fixing football was a critical step one. and basketball needs to come quickly behind. we can't afford to wait.

 

[baggerbob]

all of this is why fixing football was a critical step one. and basketball needs to come quickly behind. we can't afford to wait.

That's why finding a way to get JB's billionaire friend back in the fold, and buy Red out now is important.
Basketball is a train wreak going downhill fast with no brakes.

 

[All4SU]

No one cares what Wildhack thinks in the ACC. I think they'd pick up the phone for Fran over him. Now if somehow next year there's a miracle and Tenn or Clemson or ND get clipped somehow or are coming up to the dome to play the next few years and we're derailing their playoff runs maybe the opinions of our CNY football team will matter more. Right now we're just along for the ride though.

I would think they’d listen to a top ESPN exec.

 

[kcsu]

all of this is why fixing football was a critical step one. and basketball needs to come quickly behind. we can't afford to wait.

Weve got time. Basketball will start getting fixed next year

 

[kcsu]

No one cares what Wildhack thinks in the ACC. I think they'd pick up the phone for Fran over him. Now if somehow next year there's a miracle and Tenn or Clemson or ND get clipped somehow or are coming up to the dome to play the next few years and we're derailing their playoff runs maybe the opinions of our CNY football team will matter more. Right now we're just along for the ride though.

sure

 

[GHLF]

Weve got time. Basketball will start getting fixed next year

Great, Lay out the blueprint?

 

[WoadBlue]

I think you misunderstand the northeast. Sure, if you think you can force CFB into a vacuum and separate it from all else, you may have a valid point. However, the northeast is far different than your analysis.

First, the northeast will follow a winner. Historically, the greatest concentration of pro teams is in the northeast which affects the college scene, to be sure. Yet fans will follow a winner, your point verifies this. When Syracuse was winning in football, the state followed. When Pitt was winning in football, they had a following.

Second, the northeast, though more compact than other regions geographically, still maintains the greatest concentration of people.

Third, PSU and ND don’t carry all fans. There is a large group of fans refusing to watch either or both. With a large concentration of smaller schools, it is easier to simply ignore that these same schools have loyal followings and would be loyal to winning teams in their region (I.e. SU, Pitt) not named PSU or ND.

Fourth, the northeast does not separate one sport out a in a vacuum. This is a costly mistake many people assume but the networks understand. In a region where CBB rivals CFB or may even exceed it, cutting off the nose to spite one’s face is not recommended. See, Second point.

Fifth, assuming an attempt to place CFB in a vacuum, I think you force the government’s hand with respect to Title IX, NIL, etc. Government involvement is the last thing anyone wants in college sports.

Sixth, upstate New York has roughly the same population as New Jersey or Virginia. That places upstate NY just outside the top 10 most populous states. This number matters far more than you think as PUS and ND fans are largely concentrated in downstate, which explains why Rutgers has so little market penetration into NYC. SU has better market penetration in NYC than Rutgers.

Anyway, dismiss the northeast, you have a right to your opinion. The networks and streamers think otherwise based on their actions.

A large passionate fan base is always there, even with losing seasons. Syracuse football may have had that in the 1960s, but it sure as all Hell does not have anything close to that now. Neither does Pitt, which had that as late as the Sherrill years and began losing it very quickly thereafter. BC really didn't even have that when Flutie played. And it has lessened considerably since then. PSU has that still - and always will.

That is what the northeast is for Major CFB. The 3 northeastern states schools in the ACC plus Rutgers all have trouble regularly bringing in more TV viewers than Vanderbilt, which will always dead last in the SEC.

CBB is a very different animal as Dave Gavitte grasped. And the BE can be truly major in very basketball sense without playing any level of football. That is simply not possible in any other region of the country. And as Major CFB seems to be 10 times more valuable than CBB, what relay matters to. plague is having members that always have passionate CFB fans, not just when the team wins 9 or more games. That is the quandary the ACC faces in trying to cut that TV money disparity.

The really ugly part of the northeastern basketball thing for the ACC is that the only way to fully maximize the value of Syracuse is to have UConn, which would be worse for ACC football than even BC because UConn football has 0 history and legacy and has never developed any following even from among its alums and within CT.

The ACC is never going to get any appreciable money from any TV network for having 3 schools located in northeastern states. The four very large AAU state schools located in MT would bring value. Dropping Wake would bring some value even if the replacement were not a large state Flagship and/or Land Grant in a new state.

 

[Toga]

A large passionate fan base is always there, even with losing seasons. Syracuse football may have had that in the 1960s, but it sure as all Hell does not have anything close to that now. Neither does Pitt, which had that as late as the Sherrill years and began losing it very quickly thereafter. BC really didn't even have that when Flutie played. And it has lessened considerably since then. PSU has that still - and always will.

That is what the northeast is for Major CFB. The 3 northeastern states schools in the ACC plus Rutgers all have trouble regularly bringing in more TV viewers than Vanderbilt, which will always dead last in the SEC.

CBB is a very different animal as Dave Gavitte grasped. And the BE can be truly major in very basketball sense without playing any level of football. That is simply not possible in any other region of the country. And as Major CFB seems to be 10 times more valuable than CBB, what relay matters to. plague is having members that always have passionate CFB fans, not just when the team wins 9 or more games. That is the quandary the ACC faces in trying to cut that TV money disparity.

The really ugly part of the northeastern basketball thing for the ACC is that the only way to fully maximize the value of Syracuse is to have UConn, which would be worse for ACC football than even BC because UConn football has 0 history and legacy and has never developed any following even from among its alums and within CT.

The ACC is never going to get any appreciable money from any TV network for having 3 schools located in northeastern states. The four very large AAU state schools located in MT would bring value. Dropping Wake would bring some value even if the replacement were not a large state Flagship and/or Land Grant in a new state.

 

[richmondcuse03]

A large passionate fan base is always there, even with losing seasons. Syracuse football may have had that in the 1960s, but it sure as all Hell does not have anything close to that now. Neither does Pitt, which had that as late as the Sherrill years and began losing it very quickly thereafter. BC really didn't even have that when Flutie played. And it has lessened considerably since then. PSU has that still - and always will.

That is what the northeast is for Major CFB. The 3 northeastern states schools in the ACC plus Rutgers all have trouble regularly bringing in more TV viewers than Vanderbilt, which will always dead last in the SEC.

CBB is a very different animal as Dave Gavitte grasped. And the BE can be truly major in very basketball sense without playing any level of football. That is simply not possible in any other region of the country. And as Major CFB seems to be 10 times more valuable than CBB, what relay matters to. plague is having members that always have passionate CFB fans, not just when the team wins 9 or more games. That is the quandary the ACC faces in trying to cut that TV money disparity.

The really ugly part of the northeastern basketball thing for the ACC is that the only way to fully maximize the value of Syracuse is to have UConn, which would be worse for ACC football than even BC because UConn football has 0 history and legacy and has never developed any following even from among its alums and within CT.

The ACC is never going to get any appreciable money from any TV network for having 3 schools located in northeastern states. The four very large AAU state schools located in MT would bring value. Dropping Wake would bring some value even if the replacement were not a large state Flagship and/or Land Grant in a new state.

Based on actual ratings that is not true. I’m not going to waste time pulling all the data because you’re a NC troll. But I will say that NC averaged only 750k fans a game last year for tv. Way below Syracuse and many other schools. The acc football ratings problem is more than just Syracuse and Pittsburgh.

 

[phil77]

Do you think it would come to a point where SEC and BIG start letting go of certain schools for bigger brands to keep conferences at certain numbers? For example, we want to keep the numbers how they are but add FSU so we are going to drop Vandy and add FSU?

If they are going to consolidate then really consolidate right?

 

[HtownOrange]

A large passionate fan base is always there, even with losing seasons. Syracuse football may have had that in the 1960s, but it sure as all Hell does not have anything close to that now. Neither does Pitt, which had that as late as the Sherrill years and began losing it very quickly thereafter. BC really didn't even have that when Flutie played. And it has lessened considerably since then. PSU has that still - and always will.

That is what the northeast is for Major CFB. The 3 northeastern states schools in the ACC plus Rutgers all have trouble regularly bringing in more TV viewers than Vanderbilt, which will always dead last in the SEC.

CBB is a very different animal as Dave Gavitte grasped. And the BE can be truly major in very basketball sense without playing any level of football. That is simply not possible in any other region of the country. And as Major CFB seems to be 10 times more valuable than CBB, what relay matters to. plague is having members that always have passionate CFB fans, not just when the team wins 9 or more games. That is the quandary the ACC faces in trying to cut that TV money disparity.

The really ugly part of the northeastern basketball thing for the ACC is that the only way to fully maximize the value of Syracuse is to have UConn, which would be worse for ACC football than even BC because UConn football has 0 history and legacy and has never developed any following even from among its alums and within CT.

The ACC is never going to get any appreciable money from any TV network for having 3 schools located in northeastern states. The four very large AAU state schools located in MT would bring value. Dropping Wake would bring some value even if the replacement were not a large state Flagship and/or Land Grant in a new state.

Don't let facts get in the way of a poor narrative, it rarely ends well.