Southern Pigskin on ND to ACC

[kingottoiii]

You are moving from a market where you have the benefit of proximity and history to a market where you have zero chance of being in the top three in college football draw for a sport, college football, that is at the bottom of the totem poll for sports interest for the city.

Have you ever lived in NYC?

SU football is about the 876th game in town.

I have lived here my whole life. Apparently being the 876th game in town is better than being in a one horse town. If 40k show up at MetLife, SU will make more money than 40k at the Dome. From SU's perspective what is the negative?

 

[MikeSU02]

I have lived here my whole life. Apparently being the 876th game in town is better than being in a one horse town. If 40k show up at MetLife, SU will make more money than 40k at the Dome. From SU's perspective what is the negative?

At what cost? There were less than 40k TOTAL at the game against USC. And probably half were USC fans. Do you really think any game is going to draw more than 60k total? And out of that 60k, do you really think SU can put 40k in the seats? No way.

If you live in NYC like I do, you should be acutely aware of the competition for people's dollars and how far down on the interest list college football is, let alone SU football.

If we start doing anything other than kickoff classic type stuff against a OOC team or a 1-1-1, you will be seeing even less people at the Dome.

And sorry to say, SU can't move the whole university down to NYC. Just because you are going through tough times, doesn't mean the answer is "NYC".

And I don't care what the opinion is of who bears the fault for the lack of attendance at the Dome, but it is a reality that needs to be tended to. And if your fix is to send more games to NYC, then you are teeing up our team to be playing in front of 15k per week at the Dome, regardless of whose fault it is.

We will never, ever be able to pull in the fans to do a 50/50 split with a ND or Mich or PSU at Met Life. We just played a private school based in LA that outdrew us in NYC.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I have lived here my whole life. Apparently being the 876th game in town is better than being in a one horse town. If 40k show up at MetLife, SU will make more money than 40k at the Dome. From SU's perspective what is the negative?

I think if SU wins games, you will more alumni at Met Life and more fans in the dome, I certainly have no issue with an even split 3-3 or something. I just don't think Syracuse deserves a 1A BCS program anymore, do what it takes or scrap it. May be better off for everyone

 

[IthacaBarrel]

At what cost? There were less than 40k TOTAL at the game against USC. And probably half were USC fans. Do you really think any game is going to draw more than 60k total? And out of that 60k, do you really think SU can put 40k in the seats? No way.

If you live in NYC like I do, you should be acutely aware of the competition for people's dollars and how far down on the interest list college football is, let alone SU football.

If we start doing anything other than kickoff classic type stuff against a OOC team or a 1-1-1, you will be seeing even less people at the Dome.

And sorry to say, SU can't move the whole university down to NYC. Just because you are going through tough times, doesn't mean the answer is "NYC".

And I don't care what the opinion is of who bears the fault for the lack of attendance at the Dome, but it is a reality that needs to be tended to. And if your fix is to send more games to NYC, then you are teeing up our team to be playing in front of 15k per week at the Dome, regardless of whose fault it is.

We will never, ever be able to pull in the fans to do a 50/50 split with a ND or Mich or PSU at Met Life. We just played a private school based in LA that outdrew us in NYC.

Who cares about a 50/50 split of FANS, where is the money going? Metlife= Syracuse home game, sell all the seats you can who cares about whose fans are there? I will never be sold out most likely and not really a huge homefield advantage eitherway. Keep working downstate alumni, working CNY is trying to get blood out of rock. People bitch about $10 parking and 5 minutes of traffic.

 

[GoSU96]

Make SU-ND an annual NYC game for both teams (ie, we don't travel to South Bend either. ACC goes to 8 Conference games (4 home, 3 away, 1 NYC, or 3 home, 4 away, 1 NYC) and that leaves 4 more slots for SU to schedule in the Dome.

Just like Florida v Georgia in Jacksonville, Texas v OU in Dallas, Alabama v Auburn when they played in Birmingham. What would be wrong with that?

 

[GoSU96]

Question: Do you (Tomcat, Bees & Whomever) have a problem with an "OU/Texas" type match-up between Syracuse and Notre Dame to be played annually in the NYC area? Thereby the game is always at a "neutral" site (quotation marks because there will almost always be more ND fans than SU fans) and never at either university's home stadium.

I think I'm okay with that, but would have to think it through in a bit more detail ...

But if the deal was SU home game in NYC area and ND gets an on-campus home game ... screw that and fire whomever put pen to paper to allow it.

Split the stadium down the middle. Each school gets and equal allotment.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I think if SU wins games, you will more alumni at Met Life and more fans in the dome, I certainly have no issue with an even split 3-3 or something. I just don't think Syracuse deserves a 1A BCS program anymore, do what it takes or scrap it. May be better off for everyone

wow...

 

[MikeSU02]

Who cares about a 50/50 split of FANS, where is the money going? Metlife= Syracuse home game, sell all the seats you can who cares about whose fans are there? I will never be sold out most likely and not really a huge homefield advantage eitherway

Because it is not a long-term solution.

It alienates the local fan base (regardless if YOU personally find them culpable for the lack of attendance).

It means we will never have a neutral game there; it will be a road game.

If we give up attempting to pull in local and semi-local fans to create a relationship with NYC as a long term solution, we will be giving up more and more of local dollars, support, etc. And what players are going to come play for a team that plays in front of less fans than they did in HS? Because that is what is going to happen.

No matter how hard we try and how much money we pump into NYC marketing, we will never, ever be more than a blip on the radar of people's interest in NYC.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Agree 100%, most CNY'ers are idiots when it comes to their outlook on Syracuse sports and what it takes to be competitive for a private school in todays market. I agree either do what it takes to generate the revenue required to build a winner or drop it. **** CNY CURMUDEGONS and their negative BS attitude on everything. I hope Syracuse University athletics does what is best for Syracuse athletics and it appears that they will. The people of Syracuse don't deserve a 1A BCS football program, I am sorry they just don't. I would move all games if it makes sense financially for the University. I may miss a couple but like I said, if I am going to donate I want to know the University is doing everything they can to be competitive and if that means moving more games than so be it. The dome fans are the some of the worst in college football, The people of Syracuse don't deserve a 1a football program.

It's pretty ironic that your posts on this topic typify the CNY attitude you're railing against. You're whining and complaining about people who whine and complain...

 

[MikeSU02]

Split the stadium down the middle. Each school gets and equal allotment.

This won't work. ND would still end up with an advantage.

ND fans would just buy up part of SU's allotment on the secondary market. Heck, I know USC fans that purchased SU season tickets just to get first crack at tickets for the USC / SU game.

We are not on even footing with ND as a football program. It's not like UGA/FL or UT/OU.

 

[kingottoiii]

Because it is not a long-term solution.

It alienates the local fan base (regardless if YOU personally find them culpable for the lack of attendance).

It means we will never have a neutral game there; it will be a road game.

If we give up attempting to pull in local and semi-local fans to create a relationship with NYC as a long term solution, we will be giving up more and more of local dollars, support, etc. And what players are going to come play for a team that plays in front of less fans than they did in HS? Because that is what is going to happen.

No matter how hard we try and how much money we pump into NYC marketing, we will never, ever be more than a blip on the radar of people's interest in NYC.

Local fan base isn't loyal and doesn't support the program. Who cares if you alienate them. Local dollars simply are not there to support the program. If they were then we wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

It won't be a road game. Our opponents will not bring enough people to do so. It certainly won't be a home game though.

Players rather play in a half full, state of the art NFL facility where the Giants and Jets play. And happens to be a lot easier for family and friends to come see them play. That is a lot better than playing in a Dome in the middle of nowhere that is 80% full.

A blip on the radar in NYC/NJ is better than being the only game in town in CNY. That is what you need to compare. If the Redbull have a bigger fanbase it doesn't matter. IMO there are quite a few people in NJ who would go to SU games for the sake of seeing CFB or simply tailgating. Heck I know some who do so with Rutgers. They don't give a rat's ass about RU but go for the fun of it. There are plenty of "fans" we can get from them, especially since we are in a big boy league. Not to mention the alumni from Boston to DC would be a lot more likely to go to games. IMO if we moved all games to MetLife and are mediocre than we can get 20k SU fans per game and average close to 40k per game. That sucks but it is still better than getting close to 40k in the Dome.

 

[MikeSU02]

Local fan base isn't loyal and doesn't support the program. Who cares if you alienate them. Local dollars simply are not there to support the program. If they were then we wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

It won't be a road game. Our opponents will not bring enough people to do so. It certainly won't be a home game though.

Players rather play in a half full, state of the art NFL facility where the Giants and Jets play. And happens to be a lot easier for family and friends to come see them play. That is a lot better than playing in a Dome in the middle of nowhere that is 80% full.

A blip on the radar in NYC/NJ is better than being the only game in town in CNY. That is what you need to compare. If the Redbull have a bigger fanbase it doesn't matter. IMO there are quite a few people in NJ who would go to SU games for the sake of seeing CFB or simply tailgating. Heck I know some who do so with Rutgers. They don't give a rat's ass about RU but go for the fun of it. There are plenty of "fans" we can get from them, especially since we are in a big boy league. Not to mention the alumni from Boston to DC would be a lot more likely to go to games. IMO if we moved all games to MetLife and are mediocre than we can get 20k SU fans per game and average close to 40k per game. That sucks but it is still better than getting close to 40k in the Dome.

We can agree to disagree. I would never, ever say, "who cares if you alienate them [meaning the local fans]".

I just don't see any real long term solution with focusing on NYC more than Syracuse when we are Syracuse University.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It's pretty ironic that your posts on this topic typify the CNY attitude you're railing against. You're whining and complaining about people who whine and complain...

Wonderful...

 

[longtimefan]

One guy's view on the end game:

http://www.southernpigskin.com/ACC/view/nd-to-acc-for-football-is-inevitable

So he thinks Notre Dame ends up joining all in with Navy. That's all well and good but what about this:

"Swarbrick's demands should not stop there. He should demand that Syracuse agree to play all its home games versus ND inside the NYC TV market, in either Yankee Stadium or Giants Stadium. It is obvious ND would prefer that and why. But why would it work for Syracuse? Because to reach its football potential, Syracuse must truly become New York's team, and easily the best way to reach that goal is to play a game every year in the NYC TV market with that game every other year being against the Irish."

So he thinks SU and Duke should follow the Navy model, and bow down to the Irish. It's the old "heads I win, tails you lose" bit. There is no defending such unequal treatment.

The Orange hoops team had better stay at the top, because that program, and its 30,000 crowds, is the best bargaining chip SU has.

 

[Scooch]

You guys argue about the silliest things.

Why would half the ACC agree to never play ND?

Yeah, ND joining full-time would increase the league's media payout-per-team, but we're talking about the Presidents, ADs, BOTs, and fanbases of FSU, Clemson, VaTech, etc. having to agree to never playing them. Can you see that?

Silly scenario, ain't happening.

 

[dollarbill44]

It would always be a road game. Home conference games should always be played at home. I'm fine with the 1-1-1.

Are you okay with a 1-2 split, meaning 1 game in the Dome and 2 at ND? Because if you're saying it would always be a road game, then essentially you're saying it's the same as one home, two away.

 

[Moontan]

How about only half the games at MetLife? They'd play in the Dome once every four years and in South Bend once every four years.

If the upcoming games against ND are part of the 5-game conference tie-in (a they should be) then either drop the two South Bend games or revert the MetLife games to the Dome. I suspect that the former has the best chance of succeeding.

 

[alphaorange]

Are you okay with a 1-2 split, meaning 1 game in the Dome and 2 at ND? Because if you're saying it would always be a road game, then essentially you're saying it's the same as one home, two away.

It's a road game in the sense that we would not enjoy the benefits of the home crowd, stadium, lack of travel. In other words: a road game. Obviously it isn't the same as playing in South Bend, but it isn't SU, either. Are you deliberately being obtuse?

 

[Cadillac]

A yearly game against Notre Dame would be all kinds of awesome.

I can't feel slighted when we'd only see ND in the Dome every few years anyway.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

I'm fine with a 1-1-1 but don't want to play an annual neutral game in NYC with ND. There's no sense in giving any kind of additional recruiting leverage to ND in the NYC area. 1-1-1 provides more benefit to Syracuse from a recruiting perspective while also giving them the best chance for a home field advantage (whenever we actually get a consistent home field advantage again).

 

[rrlbees]

SU will never win over the CNY market it is not a college football market. So follow the $. No one is coming to home games in the Dome anyway so where is the risk? And again if CNYers really cared about SU FB and not themselves they would still go for the good of the program. Issue is CNYers are selfish and only care about their own good. Even the "good" fans.

Sure.

And they'll never win over the alumni either.

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[rrlbees]

Agree 100%, most CNY'ers are idiots when it comes to their outlook on Syracuse sports and what it takes to be competitive for a private school in todays market. I agree either do what it takes to generate the revenue required to build a winner or drop it. **** CNY CURMUDEGONS and their negative BS attitude on everything. I hope Syracuse University athletics does what is best for Syracuse athletics and it appears that they will. The people of Syracuse don't deserve a 1A BCS football program, I am sorry they just don't. I would move all games if it makes sense financially for the University. I may miss a couple but like I said, if I am going to donate I want to know the University is doing everything they can to be competitive and if that means moving more games than so be it. The dome fans are the some of the worst in college football, The people of Syracuse don't deserve a 1a football program.

This one is a keeper. Gotta add it to my bookmarks.

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[rrlbees]

I have lived here my whole life.

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[Scooch]

Sure.

And they'll never win over the alumni either.

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The alumni turn out pretty amazingly for hoops.

Being in the top 25 for most of three decades has that affect I suppose.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

This thread:

:rolling:

Now, I'd be in favor of a yearly game against Notre Dame in Metlife. If it were a "neutral" game for both teams. If we don't lose a home game then I'm all for it.

 

[ithacat]

I'm fine with a 1-1-1 but don't want to play an annual neutral game in NYC with ND. There's no sense in giving any kind of additional recruiting leverage to ND in the NYC area. 1-1-1 provides more benefit to Syracuse from a recruiting perspective while also giving them the best chance for a home field advantage (whenever we actually get a consistent home field advantage again).

I think a 1-1-1 would be pretty cool. If it were an annual game SU should try to make the basketball program benefit. Perhaps the ND series could be SU-ND-SU-MSG, repeat. Try to get some concession out of it.