speaking of front runners, our fan base

[Shrmdougluvr]

To me, this collection of players beating Pitt is not a "great" win. But really, we are talking about semantics and its not the primary point of this thread.

I think Ghost is on the ball - you can be happy with the way a team performs for three games, and not happy with the fourth (or whatever increments you wish to use).

Personally, I think the team had a nice tournament overall, with some miserable moments. The team needed to get some mojo back and i think they did. However, they were dreadful (talking @ Georgetown dreadful) for the last 12 minutes or so. Regardless of the reasons (its possible they were simply gassed), that is going to draw some criticism.

To me, making excuses for poor play is as unbecoming as mindless pot shots and bitching.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Id rather have this board act like this then be apathetic.

Its not an either/or proposition.

These bashers are anything but real fans. They are heroes in their own minds basketball geniuses in their dreams and total losers when awake. They are truly pathetic.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

You give it a rest. First, southerland isn't just a starter, he has become the key to our offense. Second, this fan base is spoiled.

You ignored the point, of course.
Southerland isn't/wasn't a starter all year, until injury/senior day.
James has been my favorite player since Day 1 — but, again, that's not the point. We lost a 15 point lead in 6 minutes, and a 30+ swing in 12. If you need your 6th man to shoot 75% from 3 for the entire game, you should not expect to win. When he was in the game in the second half, he didn't get many shots off. Lville took him out of the game as much as he took himself out. If he's the "key to our offense," perhaps that should have been recognized earlier in the season and perhaps he should have been starting. I'm not saying either way. I'm saying the five guys you put on the floor as the starters should be good enough to avoid a 30 point swing in 12 minutes. And, with James, he wasn't actually helping the cause against the press.

 

[dasher]

You ignored the point, of course.
Southerland isn't/wasn't a starter all year, until injury/senior day.
James has been my favorite player since Day 1 — but, again, that's not the point. We lost a 15 point lead in 6 minutes, and a 30+ swing in 12. If you need your 6th man to shoot 75% from 3 for the entire game, you should not expect to win. When he was in the game in the second half, he didn't get many shots off. Lville took him out of the game as much as he took himself out. If he's the "key to our offense," perhaps that should have been recognized earlier in the season and perhaps he should have been starting. I'm not saying either way. I'm saying the five guys you put on the floor as the starters should be good enough to avoid a 30 point swing in 12 minutes. And, with James, he wasn't actually helping the cause against the press.

actually, I think he was. The ville couldn't just unleash the press until he was out because they were concerned about the press break to the wide open shot for him. He did just that right before the 4th foul.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Its not an either/or proposition.

These bashers are anything but real fans. They are heroes in their own minds basketball geniuses in their dreams and total losers when awake. They are truly pathetic.

Again with the "'real fans" BS. Your divisiveness is pathetic.
"La la la la la!" Eyes closed, fingers plugged into your ears like a child... Don't say anything bad! Why does it hurt you so much? Shouldn't adults be able to engage in discussion, even about difficult topics? Shouldn't adults be capable of entertaining conflicting and complicated emotions? This Simpleminded SU Glorification Forum that some people seem to insist upon is neither interesting, constructive, nor realistic. We lost. People love the team and hate to lose. They vent. That's life. You're going to have to get used to it. And every one of those people will 'live and die' with the next game, as well.

The thing is, while you're here name-calling and putting fans into boxes, if you met them in person, you'd have no idea which was a "basher" and which was a "real fan."

 

[dasher]

Again with the "'real fans" BS. Your divisiveness is pathetic.
"La la la la la!" Eyes closed, fingers plugged into your ears like a child... Don't say anything bad! Why does it hurt you so much? Shouldn't adults be able to engage in discussion, even about difficult topics? Shouldn't adults be capable of entertaining conflicting and complicated emotions? This Simpleminded SU Glorification Forum that some people seem to insist upon is neither interesting, constructive, nor realistic. We lost. People love the team and hate to lose. They vent. That's life. You're going to have to get used to it. And every one of those people will 'live and die' with the next game, as well.

The thing is, while you're here name-calling and putting fans into boxes, if you met them in person, you'd have no idea which was a "basher" and which was a "real fan."

I understand your point but I still disagree with it. The venom unleashed at our players when we lose is over the line. JB is outcoached every time we lose. I am not saying we as fans can't be critical. Sure. But the bigger point is that we don't see some of these "fans" when we win.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

actually, I think he was. The ville couldn't just unleash the press until he was out because they were concerned about the press break to the wide open shot for him. He did just that right before the 4th foul.

I dunno. Maybe. I'm not going to be able to re-watch to check it out, though. What i recall is the inability to even get over half court, which James is not usually a part of, and then the turnover/s when he did touch the ball in bail-out situations.

But, whatever - i don't even attribute the loss to the press. It was the ease with which they made simple plays after passing into the high post. That efficiency after halftime gave them their press back, and our 'deliberateness' on offense once we had the big lead didn't help. The defense lost its passion with both weariness and the acknowledgment of the zone's futility against that simple high post distribution set.

You'll tell me if my perception was off, but i thought we went into a bit of a slowdown game up 15. Not a stall, but a much more casual first ten seconds of the shot clock. Again, not the reason for the loss, but something i (think i) noticed.

It was a combination of matters that led to us falling off the cliff.

 

[temery]

3 great wins mean nothing here. One bad half and it's off to the races. Throw everything else out. The refs. the missed free throws. Anyone think we lose that game if Southerland doesn't get that 4th foul? That was the game. They got the mo and turned it on. End of story.

The saddest stat is the fact that new registrations to post here are ten times greater after a loss, than a win. Most sites see the same pattern.

 

[anomander]

Again with the "'real fans" BS. Your divisiveness is pathetic.
"La la la la la!" Eyes closed, fingers plugged into your ears like a child... Don't say anything bad! Why does it hurt you so much? Shouldn't adults be able to engage in discussion, even about difficult topics? Shouldn't adults be capable of entertaining conflicting and complicated emotions? This Simpleminded SU Glorification Forum that some people seem to insist upon is neither interesting, constructive, nor realistic. We lost. People love the team and hate to lose. They vent. That's life. You're going to have to get used to it. And every one of those people will 'live and die' with the next game, as well.

The thing is, while you're here name-calling and putting fans into boxes, if you met them in person, you'd have no idea which was a "basher" and which was a "real fan."

there is a difference between discussion, and some of the venom and hatred that is spewed after losses. how do you think these kids feel? do you really think they want to play for their fan base after the BS that is plastered all over the internet after losses. it's not like they are out there rolling over and quitting. it goes way too far

 

[dasher]

I dunno. Maybe. I'm not going to be able to re-watch to check it out, though. What i recall is the inability to even get over half court, which James is not usually a part of, and then the turnover/s when he did touch the ball in bail-out situations.

But, whatever - i don't even attribute the loss to the press. It was the ease with which they made simple plays after passing into the high post. That efficiency after halftime gave them their press back, and our 'deliberateness' on offense once we had the big lead didn't help. The defense lost its passion with both weariness and the acknowledgment of the zone's futility against that simple high post distribution set.

You'll tell me if my perception was off, but i thought we went into a bit of a slowdown game up 15. Not a stall, but a much more casual first ten seconds of the shot clock. Again, not the reason for the loss, but something i (think i) noticed.

It was a combination of matters that led to us falling off the cliff.

We did the same thing in all three games. You knew the style we had been playing that the game would get real close. Yes, we did try to slow it down a bit. JB also took a bad time out at the end of the first half.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I understand your point but I still disagree with it. The venom unleashed at our players when we lose is over the line. JB is outcoached every time we lose. I am not saying we as fans can't be critical. Sure. But the bigger point is that we don't see some of these "fans" when we win.

I'm glad we're coming toward consensus.
Maybe it's just that i incidentally avoid those venomous posts to which you refer. I seriously don't even recall reading any 'sky is falling,' 'player X sucks' posts. I guess i'm successfuller in editing what i read? Bees suggests he moderates/censors a bunch of stuff, so maybe i'm getting to the pity party late. After a loss, i like to let it fester for a bit before i come here.

JB outcoached? Well, sometimes it happens. I'm not one of the people who won't acknowledge it. I'm also not one who gives him credit for wins and blame for losses. His contribution is involved, but just like i don't tout the 900+, i'm not going to crucify him when Triche can't shoot all of a sudden. What sucks is when "900+" and "HOF" are used in lieu of actual intelligent arguments... Particularly odd, when the number of wins by other coaches who do things differently than JB far outnumber those 900, yet the rabid JB apologists continue to spout 'JB knows more than the internet forum guy.' Does 900 by JB mean he can't/doesn't make mistakes? Should we not discuss alternate ways of considering what happens? A forum where everyone accepts what JB does as the appropriate way to doing things would be a forum populated by brainless simpletons. There obviously has to be a mix. And there's no effective way to decide what the mix should be. Everyone can't be happy about the mix, though they continue to insist upon a tilt in their favor.

I'm not sure why we need to "see some of these 'fans' when we win." Again, that's about 'the mix.' If we beat Seton Hall, wouldn't you expect to find fans with NOT so much of a reaction? We were supposed to beat Seton Hall. If we lost to them, we should expect more activity about it. And we win more games than we lose. We should expect to see more activity when the fanbase is inflamed than when it's content.

When we win, i personally don't feel a need to come here and 'congratulate ourselves' very much. If there's something particularly interesting about what happened, sure, it might warrant comment. But, "rah-rah" doesn't seem interesting. And i don't see the forum as a way to "support the team." Others obviously feel differently. I also don't see it as subversive if we're critical. If rational people felt it were actually damaging to the program, i'm sure you'd see a different type of post/thread.

We ALL love SU. Period.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

there is a difference between discussion, and some of the venom and hatred that is spewed after losses. how do you think these kids feel? do you really think they want to play for their fan base after the BS that is plastered all over the internet after losses. it's not like they are out there rolling over and quitting. it goes way too far

I agree with you that "venom" and "hatred" are out of place. I don't post that kind of stuff. I rarely even read it here. And, actually, when i have read it, i've defended the players. Either way, i don't begrudge someone for feeling that way. I might decide he's an idiot, and i might try to debate the issue, but whatever — people are going to feel what they feel, and like someone said above: passion is better than apathy. There are a lot of programs that do not have a fanbase that cares one iota. A community that truly gives a is something to be grateful for — not something that needs to be transformed into a pollyanna-ish pep rally.