"Special teams looked lost too"

[SaintTristan]

Below a poster says the loss wasnt on the coaches, noting that the "Special teams looked lost too"...

And thats not on the coaches? if players look lost on the field who is that on? are we trying to save money by letting the players coach themselves?

this is exactly what I was afraid of when marone was hired. I knew he wasnt going to be successful. that was a given. but what really worried me was whether SU would have cajones to pull the trigger and fire an alum. and reading posts like this only makes me worried.

hate to be blunt, but you guys are nuts. This is not a well coached team. Because GROB sucked massive wooly mammoth balls basically anyone hired was going to improve this team. But marone has plateaued and this program isnt going to get any better under his stewardship. right now we are in the bottom third of the BE. given how much the BE sucks, a good game coach should easily have us in the top half.

He cant coach the team to victory on game day and he isnt recruiting well. what else is there? I think its great that he can charm all of you at alumni lunches into eating his poo, but thats frosting on the cake. its not the cake.

Playing in the worst BCS conference and with SOSs that are not in the top 50, he is 9-17 against BCS schools (I am assuming he'll be 9-20 at the end of the yr) and we are still fighting with MAC schools for recruits. There is just no way this is acceptable. And next yr isnt going to be any better.

In four years Randy Shannon was 21-23 against BCS schools, made three bowl games and he was recruiting very well (not as well as the old days, but well). And they fired him. Bold. But fans deserve bold.

Syracuse is a hard job. we dont have millions of local kids to choose from. the school doesnt have the sort of facilities that you can find at other schools. we dont have an SEC-like following. etc To be successful at this school you need to be special. you need to have that little extra spark to convince kids that would never think to come to the upstate NY tundra to in fact come to the upstate NY tundra. and marone just does not have it. he is a gentlemen. a great short term steward of the program. he erased the shame of the GROB years. he will never bring embarrassment to the program for off the field crap. he is not a brilliant game day coach and he isnt going to convince one stud to come here.

At the time he might have been the best we could afford. but now we have ACC money coming. spend it. go out and get a proven coach and recruiter. who cares if he is only going to stay for four or five years. let him build the infrastructure for success and then the program will run itself. we have been rebuilding for over 10 years. hiring bland but nice guys isnt working for us.

I am right.

 

[longislandcuse]

Absolutely HATE, that I am starting to agree.

 

[SaintTristan]

Absolutely HATE, that I am starting to agree.

dont beat yourself up. most do.

 

[Dnyr85]

You can't look lost running down the field at full speed trying to attack the man with the ball. They flat out did not play well. They did not come off blocks and missed tackles galore. You can coach them the angles and lane routes all you want, but once on the field it's on those kids, and that is fact.

With that said, I do however believe that a strong ST coach needs to be brought in. That I do agree with.

 

[JoeCollege]

Stan has been calling his shot since day one. And on this subject, he's shooting 1000%.

 

[kingottoiii]

I think the are a lot of question marks with Marrone. It does worry me that some of the questions that I had when he was hired are still questions in year 3. And he may very well have plateaued (too early to tell though). However you have to give him credit for turning the program around. You are wrong when you say anyone could have done that.

I think both Gill and Locksley would have killed the program and kept us out of the ACC.

We are likely worse off with Kill, HCRE, Whipple, Holtz, Solich, Crowton, Orgeron, Reagan, and Mason.

OLeary, Graham, Foster, Bowden, and Keeler would be up for debate.

And we are likely better off with Strong, Golden, and Jones.

So Marrone was a pretty good hire given the place our program was. I only see three guys from the list that we were all bantering around that I think would do a better job. And two of those guys were 5 year solutions. Strong would not have been here any longer than that. Golden was possible but now with the PSU mess I bet he ends up there. So outside of June Jones, Marrone is arguably the best guy we coulda hired at the time. Then again you could argue that taking Strong or Golden would have turned the program around and left a full cupboard for the next guy. Thus making it easier to hire a long term solution. While with Marrone you might be stuck with the guy if his ceiling is 6-8 Ws every year, since he is an alumn.

Bottomline we could have done a lot worse than Marrone.

 

[Scooch]

I don't agree with your conclusions, but this in 100% correct:

Syracuse is a hard job. we dont have millions of local kids to choose from. the school doesnt have the sort of facilities that you can find at other schools. we dont have an SEC-like following. etc To be successful at this school you need to be special. you need to have that little extra spark to convince kids that would never think to come to the upstate NY tundra to in fact come to the upstate NY tundra.

I'd add, as I've been yammering about on these boards for years, that in order to be successful at SU you need a "moneyball" like approach to the game. Find and exploit the undervalued assets. That's what Mac, P and D did a great job with for over a decade.

I'm not at all convinced that Marrone can't be successful here. I think he's a bright, introspective guy, all things considered. I don't see any harm in giving him a few more years (like 4-5) before we make any final judgements. As long as we don't collapse back to GumpRobian levels, why not? No one's coming in here and Chip Kellying us into the top 10 anyway.

 

[SaintTristan]

No one's coming in here and Chip Kellying us into the top 10 anyway.

Why not? and we dont have to be top 10. top 25 is a great start. but thats not happening under mac-marroni.

just to be really clear - we were beat by a team with worse talent and a frosh QB that sucked salamander balls. thats scary

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why not? and we dont have to be top 10. top 25 is a great start. but thats not happening under mac-marroni.

just to be really clear - we were beat by a team with worse talent and a frosh QB that sucked salamander balls. thats scary

Thanks, Tristan. Now I'm left wondering if salamanders do in fact have balls.

Ruined my Sunday.

 

[kingottoiii]

I don't agree with your conclusions, but this in 100% correct:

I'd add, as I've been yammering about on these boards for years, that in order to be successful at SU you need a "moneyball" like approach to the game. Find and exploit the undervalued assets. That's what Mac, P and D did a great job with for over a decade.

I'm not at all convinced that Marrone can't be successful here. I think he's a bright, introspective guy, all things considered. I don't see any harm in giving him a few more years (like 4-5) before we make any final judgements. As long as we don't collapse back to GumpRobian levels, why not? No one's coming in here and Chip Kellying us into the top 10 anyway.

I agree with the moneyball like approach to talent and think we are doing that. What I have an issue with is that the style of play. The Rays have it right. Use good SP and small ball to combat the power hitting teams. You cannot compete by being a station to station team. You need talent to do that. Which is why IMO the As never got over the hump. And that is why a pro style O will never work here at SU.

 

[orangenirvana]

We need an upgrade at Quarterback more than anything. That's ultimately on Marrone for not being able to get it done. But it's obvious that Nassib doesn't have what it takes to lead the team to consistent victories.

 

[suthrills]

Why not? and we dont have to be top 10. top 25 is a great start. but thats not happening under mac-marroni.

just to be really clear - we were beat by a team with worse talent and a frosh QB that sucked salamander balls. thats scary

To add to that I think it's scary that we've been beaten by 3 freshman QB's on below average teams in the worst conference in the country (Nova, Bridgewater, and Uconn).
You have to ask where is the progress. As IB has been saying it's year 3, not year 1.

 

[suthrills]

We need an upgrade at Quarterback more than anything. That's ultimately on Marrone for not being able to get it done. But it's obvious that Nassib doesn't have what it takes to lead the team to consistent victories.

As I stated in another post the problems run so much deeper than Nassib and the QB position.

 

[orangenirvana]

As I stated in another post the problems run so much deeper than Nassib and the QB position.

I didn't say QB isn't the only problem...but it's certainly the biggest.

He's been a major disappointment. The coaching staff was expecting more out of him.

 

[suthrills]

I didn't say QB isn't the only problem...but it's certainly the biggest.

He's been a major disappointment. The coaching staff was expecting more out of him.

I agree that he can play better but I also think the team can win with him.
Nassibs receivers had 4 critical drops yesterday, the line can't block, the D can't tackle, the kicker can't kick, the punter can't punt, the ST can't tackle or contain, the DB's can't find receivers or locate the ball, we have absolutely no playmakers on the field. He has to be perfect for us to win and sustain drives.
He can be a functional D1 QB if he had an iota of help.
Would I love the QB positon to be upgraded, yes. Is he a star, no. Do I think it's the biggest problem on the team, no.

 

[SaintTristan]

I didn't say QB isn't the only problem...but it's certainly the biggest.

He's been a major disappointment. The coaching staff was expecting more out of him.

I am sorry, this is confusing. was there a QB controversy in camp? because i could have sworn this board's consensus coming out of camp were that the other guys were not close to being ready to play. marone has three yrs of recruits at his disposal.

if our QB sucks, thats on marone.

 

[007]

...At the time he might have been the best we could afford. but now we have ACC money coming. spend it. go out and get a proven coach and recruiter. who cares if he is only going to stay for four or five years. let him build the infrastructure for success and then the program will run itself. we have been rebuilding for over 10 years. hiring bland but nice guys isnt working for us.

I am right.

Massive woolly mammoth balls notwithstanding, you are pissing in the wind if you think Marrone is not going to be given every opportunity to play out his hand. I fully realize you are advocating this is what "should" be done, not that it will be done. It's kind of a contrarian position of convenience and self indulgence to assert that Marrone's status as an alum, his passion, his ability to articulate his vision, the "balls" to hold players accountable, and winning a bowl game in year two have not earned him the "right" to stay at the table. I am not saying that will ultimately be the "right" decision for the program. I am saying that it is too early to know, and way too early to take a potentially disastrous risk that "ACC money" will guarantee the finding of the savior for the program.

Given the talent on this team (who is responsible for finding that talent is another issue), the ceiling for this team was never going to be more than 7 plus or minus 1 wins, IMO, no matter who coached. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

 

[orangenirvana]

I am sorry, this is confusing. was there a QB controversy in camp? because i could have sworn this board's consensus coming out of camp were that the other guys were not close to being ready to play. marone has three yrs of recruits at his disposal.

if our QB sucks, thats on marone.

What part of "That's ultimately on Marrone for not being able to get it done" is confusing for you?

 

[Scooch]

Why not? and we dont have to be top 10. top 25 is a great start. but thats not happening under mac-marroni.

just to be really clear - we were beat by a team with worse talent and a frosh QB that sucked salamander balls. thats scary

Well, for starters, as much as I have begun to loathe the GRob Defense, it is fair to acknowledge that this program was turrrible when Marrone took over. Getting it to even top 25 level would have been an tremendous accomplishment in year 3, and the fact that we're not there isn't the end of the world.

Also, despite all the obvious deficiencies in the program right now, we're still 17-17 in Marrone's tenure. I get all the caveats about SOS, but the simple fact is that at this point he's dug us out of the abyss and there's no reason not to give him the chance to do more.

Honestly, what's the harm? SU is not going to be a revolving door for coaches, so give him every last chance to succeed.

 

[timkay99]

Below a poster says the loss wasnt on the coaches, noting that the "Special teams looked lost too"...

And thats not on the coaches? if players look lost on the field who is that on? are we trying to save money by letting the players coach themselves?

I am sure Marrone is the first to admit that his ST by committee isn't working and I am sure that will be changed this offseason.
this is exactly what I was afraid of when marone was hired. I knew he wasnt going to be successful. that was a given. but what really worried me was whether SU would have cajones to pull the trigger and fire an alum. and reading posts like this only makes me worried.

Define successful. What were your expectations after 3 years of Marrone? Because I think this team is going to 2 bowls in 3 years and that far exceeds my own.

He cant coach the team to victory on game day and he isnt recruiting well. what else is there? I think its great that he can charm all of you at alumni lunches into eating his poo, but thats frosting on the cake. its not the cake.

He is .500 (17-17). He is 5-5 in conference the last 2 years. I really think your expectations for this program are not in line with the actual program.

Playing in the worst BCS conference and with SOSs that are not in the top 50, he is 9-17 against BCS schools (I am assuming he'll be 9-20 at the end of the yr) and we are still fighting with MAC schools for recruits. There is just no way this is acceptable. And next yr isnt going to be any better.

We aren't fighting with MAC schools. What MAC schools have we lost recruits to?

In four years Randy Shannon was 21-23 against BCS schools, made three bowl games and he was recruiting very well (not as well as the old days, but well). And they fired him. Bold. But fans deserve bold.

Really? You are now comparing the Miami and Syracuse jobs? If your expectations are to be what Miami was, then your going to be disappointed no matter who the HC is.

Syracuse is a hard job. we dont have millions of local kids to choose from. the school doesnt have the sort of facilities that you can find at other schools. we dont have an SEC-like following. etc To be successful at this school you need to be special. you need to have that little extra spark to convince kids that would never think to come to the upstate NY tundra to in fact come to the upstate NY tundra. and marone just does not have it. he is a gentlemen. a great short term steward of the program. he erased the shame of the GROB years. he will never bring embarrassment to the program for off the field crap. he is not a brilliant game day coach and he isnt going to convince one stud to come here.

Isn't going to convince one stud to come here? The guy has recruited 2 full recruiting cycles after this year. What do you consider a stud? A 5-star? Reddish chose Syracuse over Penn State. If you believe it, a few guys this cycle chose Syracuse over Penn State. Get off the stars.


I am right.

Sadly, you are not right.

 

[OrangeHeel]

This. ^^^^^^^^ (Tim's post)

Don't know for sure how Marrone will turn out, but if you step back and look objectively the progress to year 3 is clear. The question is the future & Marrone has earned the right to get us there. I think he will. If he doesn't, we're still in better shape than in 2008.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rrlbees]

Nassibs receivers had 4 critical drops yesterday

I'm one to give more credit to Nassib than others do. I don't think he is really that bad. But when yesterday did the WR's drop 4 balls? I remember 1 real drop by West, that's it.

 

[Cuseman78]

I'm one to give more credit to Nassib than others do. I don't think he is really that bad. But when yesterday did the WR's drop 4 balls? I remember 1 real drop by West, that's it.

There were 3 drops yesterday. Stevens, Graham, and West. A couple of them om 3rd down. The receivers haven't been that bad this year in the hands dept but yesterday wasn't heir finest day (except for Lemon and Provo)

 

[kingottoiii]

I'm one to give more credit to Nassib than others. I don't think he is really that bad. But when yesterday did the WR's drop 4 balls? I remember 1 real drop by West, that's it.

West dropped a perfect pass. Stevens dropped a pass that was a tad hot but still should have been caught. Graham dropped a pass. Rene dropped a pass that was a tad behind him but still should have been caught.

Then there was the INT that Lemon could have caught. Not Lemon's fault, give credit to UConn. And the deep pass to Chew, he gave him a chance to go get it but Chew was waiting for it to come down. Not Chew's fault, it would have been a difficult catch. But a guy like Mike Williams comes down with it.

Nassib had three awful passes yesterday, all in the 1st Q and a half. A third down that killed a drive, not even close to Provo. Another 3rd down drive killer to Lemon that was high. And the INT that wasn't even close to Provo. Besides that he was pretty good. I believe before the INT he was 13-15 in the half with the 2 INCs as drops. His strikes to Lemon allowing for all that YAC were a thing of beauty.

 

[rrlbees]

There were 3 drops yesterday. Stevens, Graham, and West. A couple of them om 3rd down. The receivers haven't been that bad this year in the hands dept but yesterday wasn't heir finest day (except for Lemon and Provo)

If it is the one to Stevens that I am thinking of, it was too far out of his reach and he barely got fingertips on it. Graham I don't recall but you may be right.