Stall ball

[Jasonrob44]

Stall ball never works when you fight the entire half for the lead and momentum. It always works when you've played extended minutes in the lead and in control.

It kills momentum every time in a close game of runs. Almost every single time.

Exactly

 

[SyracuseFan]

So everyone is agreeing the decision to stall was a good one today? OMFG this place is seriously afraid of criticizing our HC. Obviously in some situations the stall is great and has worked for years, that means nothing in the debate of today's game.

Momentum in mens college basketball is the most important thing to have, today like sometimes in the past the stall has killed our momentum. For people to have watched that game and agree that our best chance of winning was holding the ball then I'm just flabbergasted.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

 

[Jake]

Why? Is there some guarantee that you get a better shot?

College kids don't reset like pros do. Pros run a play, then if it fails, quickly run a second in 24 seconds.

College kids simply can't do that. It's best to run the clock, run a set and hit the boards.

Jb likes the high screen rub, the problem has been MCWs decision making after the big hedges on the screen. It was awful today and when he did split them today, he didn't finish.

I would have rather had Brandon attack from the ft line extended. He was getting free rather easily.

 

[bevosu]

I don't think the stall ball call was all that bad, but the execution was not good.

MCW dribbling way too much and then trying to split a couple of defenders instead of passing the ball around the perimeter. We could move the ball and let someone else get a pass and pass it around.

MCW just doesn't handle the stall strategy very well. Surprised that JB lets that happen.

 

[Jake]

So everyone is agreeing the decision to stall was a good one today? OMFG this place is seriously afraid of criticizing our HC. Obviously in some situations the stall is great and has worked for years, that means nothing in the debate of today's game.

Momentum in mens college basketball is the most important thing to have, today like sometimes in the past the stall has killed our momentum. For people to have watched that game and agree that our best chance of winning was holding the ball then I'm just flabbergasted.

Have a wonderful afternoon.

Not sure you understand the debate. People are clearly criticizing jb for not getting Brandon touches, just not the decision to shorten the game given the circumstances.

 

[KingOtis]

This is the first time we've lost a game playing stall ball since the Flynn/Devo/Harris days. Can't get much more effective than that when it comes late-game strategy.

 

[SyracuseFan]

Thanks for the clarification but it is entirely not necessary, I understand you guys think the stall was a good tactic today. IMO that is ludicrous!

After MCW fell down, then you HAVE TO call it off! clearly you can't think leaving the stall on with 2:45 to go when you are only up 3 points is the right decision? Here is the problem, maybe JB thought it was the right decision up 6 with three to play AND THE BALL but when things change rapidly and your coach doesn't adjust the strategy then that's where mistakes are made. Frustrating when it happens and we lose, due to stubbornness. Debate any point you want it's what's great about this.

The strategy is what kept BT from getting the ball. Without the stall, the ball is already in BT's hands.

 

[CuseGrad94]

Why? Is there some guarantee that you get a better shot?

College kids don't reset like pros do. Pros run a play, then if it fails, quickly run a second in 24 seconds.

College kids simply can't do that. It's best to run the clock, run a set and hit the boards.

Jb likes the high screen rub, the problem has been MCWs decision making after the big hedges on the screen. It was awful today and when he did split them today, he didn't finish.

I would have rather had Brandon attack from the ft line extended. He was getting free rather easily.

Jake I agree with this completely. Not to try and get into JB's head (scary thought), but I think that he stayed with MCW becuase of the huge shots he hit down the stretch in the last few games...Just a guess...and have a good afternoon!!

 

[KingOtis]

Thanks for the clarification but it is entirely not necessary, I understand you guys think the stall was a good tactic today. IMO that is ludicrous!

After MCW fell down, then you HAVE TO call it off! clearly you can't think leaving the stall on with 2:45 to go when you are only up 3 points is the right decision? Here is the problem, maybe JB thought it was the right decision up 6 with three to play AND THE BALL but when things change rapidly and your coach doesn't adjust the strategy then that's where mistakes are made. Frustrating when it happens and we lose, due to stubbornness. Debate any point you want it's what's great about this.

The strategy is what kept BT from getting the ball. Without the stall, the ball is already in BT's hands.

That's a lot of speculation on your part. All we needed was a free throw from MCW.

 

[Marsh01]

That's a lot of speculation on your part. All we needed was a free throw from MCW.

My point exactly. That post sucked


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[VaBeachOrFan]

There is nothing wrong with the strategy when it is executed properly. It has been executed correctly atleast a half dozen times this year and once it has not. I will take that win % in close games. Our guards need to make free throws and lay ups down the stretch. I can understand the issue with not fouling on the last possesion of regulation, but not the "stall ball", becuase as a coach you need to believe that your players will make lay ups and free throws.

There's nothing wrong with "stall ball" except for the fact that it's not the Cuse's way. Other teams play out the clock on us all the time and drive us crazy with a last-second bucket or a rebound and a fresh clock. All we lacked today was execution on any one of several plays. Bottom line: (1) get some kind of points out of the possession or (2) get the rebounds. We did neither three times in a row. Game over.-VBOF

 

[CuseGrad94]

Thanks for the clarification but it is entirely not necessary, I understand you guys think the stall was a good tactic today. IMO that is ludicrous!

After MCW fell down, then you HAVE TO call it off! clearly you can't think leaving the stall on with 2:45 to go when you are only up 3 points is the right decision? Here is the problem, maybe JB thought it was the right decision up 6 with three to play AND THE BALL but when things change rapidly and your coach doesn't adjust the strategy then that's where mistakes are made. Frustrating when it happens and we lose, due to stubbornness. Debate any point you want it's what's great about this.

The strategy is what kept BT from getting the ball. Without the stall, the ball is already in BT's hands.

How does that strategy keep the ball out of BT's hands?? You just pass him the ball and he stands there and pounds the ball into the court???

 

[SyracuseFan]

This is the first time we've lost a game playing stall ball since the Flynn/Devo/Harris days. Can't get much more effective than that when it comes late-game strategy.

Ok I agree and it is lovely we have been on such a great run. It's beautiful, in fact. However it doesn't change that some people do make mistakes and today we pissed away a game that we had locked up primarily due to a strategic mistake, of course it's just my opinion. I love JB and I'm amazed and blessed at our success but sometimes the light gets blocked on JB's solar calculator and he doesn't adjust.

 

[Orangezoo]

i made a comment in another thread a while ago but having brandon get the ball of a screen starting stall ball at the 15 second mark seems more like the way we ran it last year than waiting until the 9 second mark.. i was screaming at the tv to no avail to get brandon the ball and start moving at the 14 second mark... least efficient stall ball ive seen in a while with this team.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There is nothing wrong with the strategy when it is executed properly. It has been executed correctly atleast a half dozen times this year and once it has not. I will take that win % in close games. Our guards need to make free throws and lay ups down the stretch. I can understand the issue with not fouling on the last possesion of regulation, but not the "stall ball", becuase as a coach you need to believe that your players will make lay ups and free throws.

"Yes, let's stop increasing our lead."

Just because we implemented the stall "at least a half dozen times this year" and won does not mean the stall was necessarily the best option. It only means we didn't lose those games. End of game, we had the leads... we should have won those games.

Saying we would have won if it had been executed well is a ridiculous argument. Any option would work if executed well. You can't assume shots will be made. You can't assume the other team won't have a say in the outcome.

The stall has purpose. But only up 4 points, on the road, against a team that wants to shoot 3s and is confident, having just beaten a #1? It was too early, and put too much pressure on MCW to make plays, which he doesn't do so well down the stretch against strong competition. Yeah, he has a lot of assists. But, lately, he's making a lot of bad decisions and strength has been an issue in the conference. MCW has talent, guts, fire. He doesn't have the head or the strength.

 

[KingOtis]

There's nothing wrong with "stall ball" except for the fact that it's not the Cuse's way. Other teams play out the clock on us all the time and drive us crazy with a last-second bucket or a rebound and a fresh clock. All we lacked today was execution on any one of several plays. Bottom line: (1) get some kind of points out of the possession or (2) get the rebounds. We did neither three times in a row. Game over.-VBOF

Not the Cuse's way? This is the first time we've lost a game playing stall ball since the Flynn/Devo/Harris era. MCW makes a free throw, game over.

 

[SyracuseFan]

How does that strategy keep the ball out of BT's hands?? You just pass him the ball and he stands there and pounds the ball into the court???

I don't know how or why this happens but watching 20 years of hoops proves that it does. Stall ball will usually always keep the ball in the PG's hands for too long into the shot clock. It's a mental thing I guess. When you start passing the ball around maybe you get tempted on an open look. But with JB's and most other coaches the stall does exactly what I said and it has forever.

Basically your telling a bunch of kids to play but not really play and it almost always affects their mental makeup. If your already dominating it is a safer strategy, when you feel your gonna sneak out the victory it usually has a devastating effect.

 

[Marsh01]

There's nothing wrong with "stall ball" except for the fact that it's not the Cuse's way. Other teams play out the clock on us all the time and drive us crazy with a last-second bucket or a rebound and a fresh clock. All we lacked today was execution on any one of several plays. Bottom line: (1) get some kind of points out of the possession or (2) get the rebounds. We did neither three times in a row. Game over.-VBOF

Not our way? Have you been in a coma for the past 35 years?

Stall ball worked to perfection today. If you cant see that then i cant help you


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[KingOtis]

Ok I agree and it is lovely we have been on such a great run. It's beautiful, in fact. However it doesn't change that some people do make mistakes and today we pissed away a game that we had locked up primarily due to a strategic mistake, of course it's just my opinion. I love JB and I'm amazed and blessed at our success but sometimes the light gets blocked on JB's solar calculator and he doesn't adjust.

Why would he adjust to something that had been 100% effective for as long as Triche has been on the team? One hundred percent effective. So it didn't work one time in four years for what will eventually be viewed as a meaningless game in January.

 

[KingOtis]

I don't know how or why this happens but watching 20 years of hoops proves that it does. Stall ball will usually always keep the ball in the PG's hands for too long into the shot clock. It's a mental thing I guess. When you start passing the ball around maybe you get tempted on an open look. But with JB's and most other coaches the stall does exactly what I said and it has forever.

Basically your telling a bunch of kids to play but not really play and it almost always affects their mental makeup. If your already dominating it is a safer strategy, when you feel your gonna sneak out the victory it usually has a devastating effect.

You know what "usually always" or "almost always" happens when we stall? We win. No need to overthink it.

 

[grepal]

I think the stall was the right move, it just did not work out this time. SU was down to 6 true scholarship players on the road. Making the game shorter made sense.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

What "stall ball" does is change the game. Why on earth would you change the game when the way you are playing it is winning? The way to win game at the elite level is to play with confidence and aggression. "Stall ball" takes away confidence and aggression, and gives it on a silver platter to the other team.

 

[CuseGrad94]

I don't know how or why this happens but watching 20 years of hoops proves that it does. Stall ball will usually always keep the ball in the PG's hands for too long into the shot clock. It's a mental thing I guess. When you start passing the ball around maybe you get tempted on an open look. But with JB's and most other coaches the stall does exactly what I said and it has forever.

Basically your telling a bunch of kids to play but not really play and it almost always affects their mental makeup. If your already dominating it is a safer strategy, when you feel your gonna sneak out the victory it usually has a devastating effect.

My point is that you only have so many possesions in a game left with that much time on the clock. If you make ONE play the game is over. In 5 possesions that is bound to happen. It didnt today which is why they lost. It happens way more than not which is why Cuse's games decided by less than 5 points record is insanely good (i made that up, but I think I am right ) As my main man Herm says..."you play to win the game...HELLO you play to win the game) as a coach I think that you play %'s and he did that . If his players made 1 freakin play they win and I think he is willing to live with that. For the record I dont think that anyone is afraid to criticize a coach on a fan board.

My critique comes from not getting BT the ball in that spot, but my guess is that since MCW has basically single handedly won the last few games with huge shots, steals, and passes that he stuck with him.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Coaching only does so much. You have to execute. We did not do that today.

It's on the players. One player, actually.

 

[HurleyForHeisman]

The stall as practiced by Syracuse today was a terrible move for two reasons. First, it completely stopped Syracuse's offensive momentum, as it usually does, because standing around watching the point guard dribble for 25 seconds rarely, if ever, leads to a good shot. Second, and more important, when Syracuse waits until late in the shot clock to heave up a bad shot or make a turnover, it often leads to an easy run out for the other team, as was the case today when Villanova scored a layup 5 seconds after MCW's turnover. SU's best way to eat time at the end of games is at the defensive end. Having watched SU choke this way for 40 years, I can attest that it is giving up easy scores to the other team that is the fatal flaw of SU's stall strategy.

PS - this also applies to SU holding the ball for the last shot of the first half of games.