Stanitzek not be be punished further

[Cuseregular]

That is a great look at it, thank you. I was watching this and trying to piece it together...
http://www.si.com/college-football/...mu-eric-dungey-mitch-stanitzek-late-hit-video

The most telling thing is the way #8 immediately pulls off and moves in the direction of the pass, Stanitzek absolutely had just as much time as #8. Thanks for the extra look.

listen here's the deal from somebody who would know. That's because I played the position all my sporting life, was AA at it with a shot at the pro's and still hold my colleges record for sacks and tackles. I narcissitically list that to emphasize I know of what I speak.

We had a similar blow up here when Rutgers had a player (Lafrege?) who took down our qb (Robinson?) with a brutal hit. At the time I was going back and forth with some on here saying that it was a good legal (at least at the time pretargeting) hit as I'd made similar hits many times.

In that one it was more bang bang vs. this one with the guys momentum carrying through the qb with no way to stop. There was no penalty on it which I thought was correct. Still feel the same today in looking back on it, except understand now that the way I played and this hit is no longer acceptable. (see Bees you were ahead of your time

As for this one here there is no way in hell that this was premeditated nor was there any directive by the coaches to "take the qb out". Rather you have an non starter jacked to play trying to make a name for himself in any way possible so he's overzealous in his selfish approach. And we see the result.

That said he most definitely could have and should have pulled up to try and avoid him or at least slow down in the hit. Wasn't premeditated yes, but there's no way around it it was dirty. And it will now follow him going forward. When your that big it IS hard to stop your momentum true but where he is guilty as hell is where he not only didn't even try to pull up (zero doubt in my mind having been there multiple times that there was ample time to do it or at least try), so not only was there no attempt to slow down, rather even after seeing the ball released (his eyes in that pic show he was locked on it all), rather he in point of fact did the opposite and instead followed through with even greater force and emphasis the potential of which had the potential to be lethal (not kidding).

It's a dirty play by a dirty player. Maybe he was known as a "good kid" before hand but now he's simply a dirty selfish player out for individual glory at nearly the expense of anothers potential health and well being. Sure the kid "made a mistake" as I heard said but IMO that mistake was very nearly criminal in the reality of it's end result and like any mistake or infraction the offending party need be commensurately punished.

As I wrote elsewhere that's not happening here and this schmuck, his coach, his school are all getting off easy on this one. If the sport wants to save itself there's no room for this and they need to revisit these rules to make it punitive for the player coach and school. To go beyond current rules and coaching so more of an emphasis is on ALWAYS avoiding the attempted kill shot (which this was both potentially literally and figuratively). This is a horrible missed opportunity so far and hopefully with enough trumpeting this, as is happening here and elsewhere, hopefully some attention is brought to the matter.

 

[supp]

For those wondering about the mute reaction of Shafer, I think the quotes of our defensive players (Bennett, Franklin, Scissum) on the hit may give you an idea where he stands. They all said something to the effect of: the kid deserved to be tossed but that's football. Football is a violent sport and hitting is a big part of it. I think the unstated second part of that thought process is that the minute you start thinking about appropriate and inappropriate levels of aggression on the field, then you've lost your edge.

During the game, I was fuming about what happened to Dungey but when I read those quotes, I saw that pretty much all football coaches think that this is part of the game. This Stanitzek guy took it a bit too far but that's no reason to bring into question the way defense is played more generally.

The minute we all come to terms with the fact that this game is inherently unreformable and barbaric, the easier it will be on our conscience.

 

[rrlbees]

For those wondering about the mute reaction of Shafer, I think the quotes of our defensive players (Bennett, Franklin, Scissum) on the hit may give you an idea where he stands. They all said something to the effect of: the kid deserved to be tossed but that's football. Football is a violent sport and hitting is a big part of it. I think the unstated second part of that thought process is that the minute you start thinking about appropriate and inappropriate levels of aggression on the field, then you've lost your edge. During the game, I was fuming about what happened to Dungey but when I read those quotes, I saw that pretty much all football coaches think that this is part of the game. This Stanitzek guy took it a bit too far but that's no reason to bring into question the way defense is played more generally. The minute we all come to terms with the fact that this game is inherently unreformable and barbaric, the easier it will be on our conscience.

I think Shafer took the high road and his players had to follow suit.

 

[supp]

I think Shafer took the high road and his players had to follow suit.

If so, they weren't all on message. The offensive player interviewed (forget who) wasn't as forgiving.

 

[Chip]

I think Shafer took the high road and his players had to follow suit.

I don't think that's the timeline. They asked some players about it Saturday night (or Sunday morning, can't remember which, but it was one of the Mink or Bailey articles right after the game), 3 D players said what supp quoted, and Omari Palmer said it was a cheap shot.

I don't recall hearing Shafer's comments until today.

 

[Cheriehoop]

In all fairness, IDK how you did it. I like sitting along the 3rd base line at chiefs games so I can watch the bullpen. You get a real good look from behind the catcher and I try to follow the ball into his glove. I'm absolutely amazed at the both the velocity and the movement on the balls. Very impressive that anyone can hit that stuff.

My son was a catcher through college and even did some bullpen for AAA,it always amazed me that catchers catch that stuff through batters swings, many times even after the batter gets a small piece.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Wonder if the fact that CMU's new coach was found to have cancer only in June and just finished treatment in late August right before the season, had something to do with the more suppressed public reaction by Shafer, the media etc. Have no idea but made me wonder.

http://www.mlive.com/chippewas/index.ssf/2015/08/central_michigan_football_coac_4.html

 

[Shark58]

The MAC said "Stanitzek has met requirements for punishment and no further penalty is coming".

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think that's the timeline. They asked some players about it Saturday night (or Sunday morning, can't remember which, but it was one of the Mink or Bailey articles right after the game), 3 D players said what supp quoted, and Omari Palmer said it was a cheap shot. I don't recall hearing Shafer's comments until today.

I'm sure something was said right after the game to the team. I think Shafer mentioned post game.

 

[rrlbees]

Wonder if the fact that CMU's new coach was found to have cancer only in June and just finished treatment in late August right before the season, had something to do with the more suppressed public reaction by Shafer, the media etc. Have no idea but made me wonder. http://www.mlive.com/chippewas/index.ssf/2015/08/central_michigan_football_coac_4.html

That very well could be part of it too.

 

[HtownOrange]

A game for game suspension coinciding with the injured players missed games should absolutely be the penalty for targeting.

...and if it happens twice in one season by the same team, the HC is subject to the same penalty... just an opinion. HCs need to be punished if they really do not have control of their team. Personally, I would be OK with having the HC get it the fist time one of his players targets, but I can understand a "one chance" exception as some players can get over hyped an do something stupid on their own.

 

[HtownOrange]

I realize this might piss some people off but stop watching it hit in slo-mo or in stills. Watch it full speed over and over and over and over. My challenge to anyone here is try to count 1 full second between the ball release and the hit by Stanitzek. I remember from grammar school that 1 full second should be a '1 mississippi'. I've done this exercise over and over and I can't get past '1 mi-'. I seriously think that's less than .5 seconds and the guy only takes 1 extra full step before hitting ED. After doing this over and over watching full speed I'm not even sure the hit was late, it's close but not as certain as we've made it out to be. It was clearly targeting and that's what he got called for but I think we need to check ourselves collectively as a fanbase. It was a brutal hit but it wasn't necessarily as premeditated and flagrant as we originally thought.

Not to be nit picky, but the throw starts with forward motion. Thus, your count should begin with the beginning motion, not release. Sure, a QB can fake a throw but any defender has to be aware of the consequences of following through. Further, the excess of the it and follow through actions tend to prove that Dungey was targeted.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Wonder if the fact that CMU's new coach was found to have cancer only in June and just finished treatment in late August right before the season, had something to do with the more suppressed public reaction by Shafer, the media etc. Have no idea but made me wonder.

http://www.mlive.com/chippewas/index.ssf/2015/08/central_michigan_football_coac_4.html

Wonder what he would've said If it was Dabo... or if his embassment from theDabo freak out has him muted on the sideline as result? He is, afterall, aauditioning for his job with a new AD.

 

[GoSU96]

I realize this might piss some people off but stop watching it hit in slo-mo or in stills. Watch it full speed over and over and over and over. My challenge to anyone here is try to count 1 full second between the ball release and the hit by Stanitzek. I remember from grammar school that 1 full second should be a '1 mississippi'. I've done this exercise over and over and I can't get past '1 mi-'. I seriously think that's less than .5 seconds and the guy only takes 1 extra full step before hitting ED. After doing this over and over watching full speed I'm not even sure the hit was late, it's close but not as certain as we've made it out to be. It was clearly targeting and that's what he got called for but I think we need to check ourselves collectively as a fanbase. It was a brutal hit but it wasn't necessarily as premeditated and flagrant as we originally thought.

That play is at least a one game suspension in the nfl

 

[OrangeViking]

Perhaps justice in this matter has to be left to Karma. As far as I'm concerned, Stanizek is as dirty as the day is long. If nothing else, he could have picked his head up, instead he drills a defenseless Dungey long after the ball is gone.

 

[HtownOrange]

Surprising given the general atmosphere of protecting players from head trauma injuries and fear of law suits by schools and the NCAA. These kind of hits will stop only when the penalty is severe. When an injured player files a multi-million dollar lawsuit against a school and the NCAA then, and only then, will real action be taken to stop the cheap shot/head hunting. An in game ejection and 15 yards isn't nearly severe enough to be a deterrent. The only language these organizations understand is financial pain.

Though I am in partial agreement, what is Dungey's basis for damages? If Dungey returns to play in a week, two or whatever, what has he lost? I fully agree that nothing is likely to change until a life changing injury occurs which is unfortunate that it must wait that long. CMU's coach, or AD or Chancellor/President should have the nerve to punish the kid. The MAC and the NCAA should, too.

One thing is for sure, the kid and coach are forever marked as targets. They will be watched closely and players will bump the kid a little harder, more often. Other teams will view that film and word will spread of CMU's coach allowing cheap shots and refs will get earfuls of how CMU allows cheat shots, stretched into how CMU encourages cheap shots. If I was his teammate, I would want him punished.

 

[alphaorange]

Actually he had about the same amount of time. I looked it up, a 90mph fast ball gets to the plate in .4 seconds. That's about how much time there was between the ball release and the hit. The difference is you weren't trying to stop 200+lbs of momentum when you swung the bat. I'm not defending him, I'm also not ready to say all the other things our fanbase is either. He deserved to be ejected no argument. It's the other stuff that kind of has me shaking my head at our fanbase a little.

Your assumption of 9.8 m/s/s is wrong. That is the case of a free untethered fall. Clearly this is not ever the case in football. There are lots of reasons what you "calculated" is erroneous, but let's just say it was a wild, unsubstantiated guess. Three + yards is plenty of time. Especially when you are watching the play develop. Guys leap over falling players all the time. The fact that they are in the process of falling and the defender is so close he has to leap over him while he is hitting the ground clearly says there is time to redirect.

 

[Madbiker]

Though I am in partial agreement, what is Dungey's basis for damages? If Dungey returns to play in a week, two or whatever, what has he lost? I fully agree that nothing is likely to change until a life changing injury occurs which is unfortunate that it must wait that long. CMU's coach, or AD or Chancellor/President should have the nerve to punish the kid. The MAC and the NCAA should, too.

One thing is for sure, the kid and coach are forever marked as targets. They will be watched closely and players will bump the kid a little harder, more often. Other teams will view that film and word will spread of CMU's coach allowing cheap shots and refs will get earfuls of how CMU allows cheat shots, stretched into how CMU encourages cheap shots. If I was his teammate, I would want him punished.

I didn't specifically mean Dungey should file a lawsuit. Just someone who sustains a pretty severe injury from such a hit.

 

[HtownOrange]

I didn't specifically mean Dungey should file a lawsuit. Just someone who sustains a pretty severe injury from such a hit.

Agreed. My point was really only building on yours, that it will take a tragedy for change to come about.

 

[Willy75]

Though I am in partial agreement, what is Dungey's basis for damages? If Dungey returns to play in a week, two or whatever, what has he lost? I fully agree that nothing is likely to change until a life changing injury occurs which is unfortunate that it must wait that long. CMU's coach, or AD or Chancellor/President should have the nerve to punish the kid. The MAC and the NCAA should, too.

One thing is for sure, the kid and coach are forever marked as targets. They will be watched closely and players will bump the kid a little harder, more often. Other teams will view that film and word will spread of CMU's coach allowing cheap shots and refs will get earfuls of how CMU allows cheat shots, stretched into how CMU encourages cheap shots. If I was his teammate, I would want him punished.

Hopefully beginning with Michigan State (re your target point).

 

[Reilly35]

listen here's the deal from somebody who would know. That's because I played the position all my sporting life, was AA at it with a shot at the pro's and still hold my colleges record for sacks and tackles. I narcissitically list that to emphasize I know of what I speak.

We had a similar blow up here when Rutgers had a player (Lafrege?) who took down our qb (Robinson?) with a brutal hit. At the time I was going back and forth with some on here saying that it was a good legal (at least at the time pretargeting) hit as I'd made similar hits many times.

In that one it was more bang bang vs. this one with the guys momentum carrying through the qb with no way to stop. There was no penalty on it which I thought was correct. Still feel the same today in looking back on it, except understand now that the way I played and this hit is no longer acceptable. (see Bees you were ahead of your time

As for this one here there is no way in hell that this was premeditated nor was there any directive by the coaches to "take the qb out". Rather you have an non starter jacked to play trying to make a name for himself in any way possible so he's overzealous in his selfish approach. And we see the result.

That said he most definitely could have and should have pulled up to try and avoid him or at least slow down in the hit. Wasn't premeditated yes, but there's no way around it it was dirty. And it will now follow him going forward. When your that big it IS hard to stop your momentum true but where he is guilty as hell is where he not only didn't even try to pull up (zero doubt in my mind having been there multiple times that there was ample time to do it or at least try), so not only was there no attempt to slow down, rather even after seeing the ball released (his eyes in that pic show he was locked on it all), rather he in point of fact did the opposite and instead followed through with even greater force and emphasis the potential of which had the potential to be lethal (not kidding).

It's a dirty play by a dirty player. Maybe he was known as a "good kid" before hand but now he's simply a dirty selfish player out for individual glory at nearly the expense of anothers potential health and well being. Sure the kid "made a mistake" as I heard said but IMO that mistake was very nearly criminal in the reality of it's end result and like any mistake or infraction the offending party need be commensurately punished.

As I wrote elsewhere that's not happening here and this schmuck, his coach, his school are all getting off easy on this one. If the sport wants to save itself there's no room for this and they need to revisit these rules to make it punitive for the player coach and school. To go beyond current rules and coaching so more of an emphasis is on ALWAYS avoiding the attempted kill shot (which this was both potentially literally and figuratively). This is a horrible missed opportunity so far and hopefully with enough trumpeting this, as is happening here and elsewhere, hopefully some attention is brought to the matter.

I think back to watching Freeney blow by an offensive tackle time and again and have clear line and full speed at the QB but always would go for the arms for the strip/fumble or the waist for the wrap up sack. As far as I can remember he never launched at a QBs head or tried to tackle/spear with his head.

 

[Millhouse]

listen here's the deal from somebody who would know. That's because I played the position all my sporting life, was AA at it with a shot at the pro's and still hold my colleges record for sacks and tackles. I narcissitically list that to emphasize I know of what I speak.

We had a similar blow up here when Rutgers had a player (Lafrege?) who took down our qb (Robinson?) with a brutal hit. At the time I was going back and forth with some on here saying that it was a good legal (at least at the time pretargeting) hit as I'd made similar hits many times.

In that one it was more bang bang vs. this one with the guys momentum carrying through the qb with no way to stop. There was no penalty on it which I thought was correct. Still feel the same today in looking back on it, except understand now that the way I played and this hit is no longer acceptable. (see Bees you were ahead of your time

As for this one here there is no way in hell that this was premeditated nor was there any directive by the coaches to "take the qb out". Rather you have an non starter jacked to play trying to make a name for himself in any way possible so he's overzealous in his selfish approach. And we see the result.

That said he most definitely could have and should have pulled up to try and avoid him or at least slow down in the hit. Wasn't premeditated yes, but there's no way around it it was dirty. And it will now follow him going forward. When your that big it IS hard to stop your momentum true but where he is guilty as hell is where he not only didn't even try to pull up (zero doubt in my mind having been there multiple times that there was ample time to do it or at least try), so not only was there no attempt to slow down, rather even after seeing the ball released (his eyes in that pic show he was locked on it all), rather he in point of fact did the opposite and instead followed through with even greater force and emphasis the potential of which had the potential to be lethal (not kidding).

It's a dirty play by a dirty player. Maybe he was known as a "good kid" before hand but now he's simply a dirty selfish player out for individual glory at nearly the expense of anothers potential health and well being. Sure the kid "made a mistake" as I heard said but IMO that mistake was very nearly criminal in the reality of it's end result and like any mistake or infraction the offending party need be commensurately punished.

As I wrote elsewhere that's not happening here and this schmuck, his coach, his school are all getting off easy on this one. If the sport wants to save itself there's no room for this and they need to revisit these rules to make it punitive for the player coach and school. To go beyond current rules and coaching so more of an emphasis is on ALWAYS avoiding the attempted kill shot (which this was both potentially literally and figuratively). This is a horrible missed opportunity so far and hopefully with enough trumpeting this, as is happening here and elsewhere, hopefully some attention is brought to the matter.

they recorded sacks as a stat back then?

 

[Cuseregular]

they recorded sacks as a stat back then?

yeah about the time they phased out leather helmets they added a few new stats to keep track of ....which is great so I got that going for me, which is nice...

 

[All4SU]

Unfortunately, we're still emerging from the Dark Ages of football head injuries. There is still a popular sentiment on this board, and all over, of "just a concussion". Hell, in some other thread we had a guy comparing playing through a sprained ankle in a big rivalry game to Dungey playing against LSU. Unfortunately, appreciation for the potential lifelong catastrophic consequences of concussions has not trickled all the way down into the rank and file of football fandom, which means there is no groundswell impetus for the conferences and leagues to properly punish illegal behavior that causes concussions.

Looking to the original link, I'd be curious (and likely aghast) at what, exactly, the "requirements for punishment" that would warrant supplemental discipline in the eyes of the MAC. Forget vigilante justice - players will stop targeting and trying to knock players out of the game with concussions once the adults in charge decide it is unacceptable and make discipline severe enough to discourage such behavior.

Agreed. Good post. But I will say, watching the video of that hit, my concern was no that Dungey would be concussed. My reaction was he could have broken his neck.

 

[All4SU]

I think Shafer took the high road and his players had to follow suit.

Of course he did. Can't believe people don't see that.