Starling > Mintz

[Trueblue25]

That's the problem.

Thats the problem on our team?

That JJ’s our leading scorer?

I’m gonna go ahead and leave the argument here.

 

[djcon57]

Literally no one has said we’re a good team. You guys are forcing your negative takes at this point. We’re just giving JJ credit where its due.

I'd suggest comparing JJ to McCord is much more forcing a take

 

[Trueblue25]

I'd suggest comparing JJ to McCord is much more forcing a take

Someone brought up fga’s, i brought up McCord to demonstrate how that stats hardly useful without context.

 

[djcon57]

Someone brought up fga’s, i brought up McCord to demonstrate how that stats hardly useful without context.

The most important context is WINS.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

And McCord led the ACC in attempted passes, we don’t hold that against him.

This is not an argument to make.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Thats the problem on our team?

That JJ’s our leading scorer?

I’m gonna go ahead and leave the argument here.

We have the 17th worst offense in high major college basketball ... and that's the best part of the team.

You think JJ should take 100% of the FGAs because he's "a scorer?" Or should we have a better offense and better offensive players?

This isn't rocket science. Our offense stinks and our defense stinks. Year in and year out, SU focuses the offense on an inefficient player like JJ taking as many FG attempts as he wants to because "he's a scorer" is the problem. Cooper Flagg is scoring 19 ppg but is JJ the same or better player because he scores 19.8 ppg? That's context - not how many passing attempts the arguably best QB in SU history had.

 

[Trueblue25]

The most important context is WINS.

Yes, right. We WIN more when JJ is healthy because he’s a great scorer.

 

[Trueblue25]

This is not an argument to make.

Again - I was not comparing the two players. Just saying that fga’s is as worthless a stat without context as passes attempted.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Again - I was not comparing the two players. Just saying that fga’s is as worthless a stat without context as passes attempted.

That's not the comparison to make.

 

[orangecuse]

Someone brought up fga’s, i brought up McCord to demonstrate how that stats hardly useful without context.

Except, there was context to what that someone brought up, as it was in relation to someone saying he was our leading scorer. So, simply pointing out that there's a direct correlation between fga and ppg in that regard, at least IMO and how I interpreted same.

 

[Trueblue25]

We have the 17th worst offense in high major college basketball ... and that's the best part of the team.

You think JJ should take 100% of the FGAs because he's "a scorer?" Or should we have a better offense and better offensive players?

This isn't rocket science. Our offense stinks and our defense stinks. Year in and year out, SU focuses the offense on an inefficient player like JJ taking as many FG attempts as he wants to because "he's a scorer" is the problem. Cooper Flagg is scoring 19 ppg but is JJ the same or better player because he scores 19.8 ppg? That's context - not how many passing attempts the arguably best QB in SU history had.

I dont know what you’re watching if you think Red’s “offense” is failing even partially because it over emphasizes JJ.

Never said he should take every shot. Of course we need better players, thats another thing no ones arguing.

people are just acknowledging he’s been playing well offensively lately. If you can’t handle that, then there’s 10x more negative threads than positive threads on this board that you can take it to

 

[donniesyracuse]

All I’m saying is to claim Mintz is a great defender is just as much of a stretch as to claim Starling’s a better defender than him.

"...Juda is 2x the defensive player that JJ is..." sounds like a comparison and not a declaration that he is a great defender.

 

[Trueblue25]

That's not the comparison to make.

Ok

 

[djcon57]

Yes, right. We WIN more when JJ is healthy because he’s a great scorer.

Ok...lets bring the debate back because I feel like we're going to far from the sun here.

This is my view:
A) JJ is the best player on this team and the team is better when he is playing

B) JJ being the best player on the team is not an overall positive because he's not an elite player

C) I can come to that conclusion based on the fact we're 8-6 with him this year and our best win is over Georgia Tech.

If we turn it around and end the year on the bubble or something, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

JJ should get props for what he's doing, no doubt, but we speaking about the reality of the situation isn't being negative despite what you think.

 

[Trueblue25]

Ok...lets bring the debate back because I feel like we're going to far from the sun here.

This is my view:
A) JJ is the best player on this team and the team is better when he is playing

B) JJ being the best player on the team is not an overall positive because he's not an elite player

C) I can come to that conclusion based on the fact we're 8-6 with him this year and our best win is over Georgia Tech.

If we turn it around and end the year on the bubble or something, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

JJ should get props for what he's doing, no doubt, but we speaking about the reality of the situation isn't being negative despite what you think.

My position is JJ should get props for his play lately. This thread is geared towards a positive take on him which he’s earned at least discussion around.

Obviously this is a bad team with a host of issues, but there’s 100 threads for that. He gets too much blame.

 

[djcon57]

My position is JJ should get props for his play lately. This thread is for that.

Obviously this is a bad team with a host of issues, but there’s 100 threads for that.

I find it odd that this thread gets made and immediately gets blitzed with negative comments about him. Should be taken elsewhere.

Nope, this is literally NOT THE THREAD for that.

The OP said he was better than Mintz and "it wasn't close"

That's the context of the thread.

The replies off of that are explaining why that might not be the case including showing that JJ is not that efficient scoring.

...and that's where feelings come into play instead of discussing the topic at hand.

If the thread title was "JJ has been playing great since he came back from injury" and the posts were just crapping on him, you'd have a valid point. It's just not the case

 

[orangefog]

I've noticed the few times that JJ actually does go left to the hole and finishes, he always attempts/finishes with his right hand. This was the case even before his left wrist injury. He was able to execute that yesterday against a bad BC team, however, it just looks so awkward IMO.

He got blocked against GTech I believe, because he tried to go left and finish with his right. Against BC, Seth Davis mentioned how good JJ is at finishing with either hand. Further evidence he has no clue what he is talking about.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He leads the conference in FGAs.

Capable driver? Sure. He's not some schlub from the Y. But Syracuse has had the same offensive scheme for about 20 years now. Get a big combo guard who can drive and put the ball in his hands to "make things happen." For the last ten years, it's been a net loser. The same people who complain about advanced analytics on this site still don't understand that the team doesn't play an advanced analytical offense. That's why we are terrible efficiency wise - and have been.

There are only so many possessions in a basketball game and every point counts. Be efficient with them OR manufacture a lot more through offensive rebounds and TOs.

Meathead basketball.

 

[MikeSU02]

JJ’s game is very similar to Russell Westbrook. You give them a head of steam and they blow by everyone going to the rim. JJ will end up being a better shooter, where Westbrook is a better defender.

Come on. Is this a joke? Russell is in another universe of athleticism than JJ. Good god.

[EDIT] - adding an edit. I don't mean to be disagreeable on this, but Russell has extraterrestrial level athleticism and talent. This isn't a discussion. Russell averaged a triple double in the NBA. The guy won MVP.

 

[MikeSU02]

JJ was a below average player his first two years. He is a slightly above average player this year that takes the bulk of our shots when he is playing.

He is not a good 3pt shooter and he is not terribly efficient, especially against volume. And he is not good on D, which is half the game.

Is what it is. He is not as good as Judah who was more talented.

 

[LetsGoOrang]

JJ was a below average player his first two years. He is a slightly above average player this year that takes the bulk of our shots when he is playing.

He is not a good 3pt shooter and he is not terribly efficient, especially against volume. And he is not good on D, which is half the game.

Is what it is. He is not as good as Judah who was more talented.

Please give us your definition of an "average" player. JJ's stats both at ND and last year indicate he was better than the average player in the ACC.

 

[djcon57]

Please give us your definition of an "average" player. JJ's stats both at ND and last year indicate he was better than the average player in the ACC.

His stats at ND were not CLOSE to a better than average player.
He shot 30% from 3 and had more turnovers than assists a game
And his team went 11-21.

Why are we doing this? Feels like I'm in the Dino-zone again where we pretend guys are better than they are

 

[LetsGoOrang]

His stats at ND were not CLOSE to a better than average player.
He shot 30% from 3 and had more turnovers than assists a game
And his team went 11-21.

Why are we doing this? Feels like I'm in the Dino-zone again where we pretend guys are better than they are

I'm not pretending JJ is better than he is but to say he was below average is just not true. He was ACC all rookie team at ND and averaged 13 ppg last season. That is better than average not below. I'm still waiting for your definition of average since he wasn't close with over 10 ppg as a freshmen. What is the average 3 pt shooting percentage since you seem to think 30% is not CLOSE to average.

 

[djcon57]

I'm not pretending JJ is better than he is but to say he was below average is just not true. He was ACC all rookie team at ND and averaged 13 ppg last season. That is better than average not below. I'm still waiting for your definition of average since he wasn't close with over 10 ppg as a freshmen. What is the average 3 pt shooting percentage since you seem to think 30% is not CLOSE to average.

I gave you specifics. Here's more...
- More turnovers than assists. That's BAD. Not average
- eFG% of 45%. That's BAD. Not average
- Offensive Rating of 92.6 That's BAD. Not average

The average 3% shooting percentage for a starting SG? It's certainly higher than 30%.

Our team currently shoots 29% and is one of the worst in NCAA.

You saying PPG means nothing to me. Someone has to play and score for a 11 win team

JJ has def improved so far this season...excited to see how much better he can get.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm not pretending JJ is better than he is but to say he was below average is just not true. He was ACC all rookie team at ND and averaged 13 ppg last season. That is better than average not below. I'm still waiting for your definition of average since he wasn't close with over 10 ppg as a freshmen. What is the average 3 pt shooting percentage since you seem to think 30% is not CLOSE to average.

ppg is an irrelevant stat without context. This has been discussed throughout the thread. Also, what does ACC all-rookie team matter today? That team went 11-21 and the coach was forced to retire midway through the season. We've had a season and half to watch him play. Use this season.

You can use several different metrics for complete comparison of players across the conferences or D1.

For example, here's Evan Miya's advanced analyticals, BPR. There are 117 players in the ACC who have had played at least 450 possessions. JJ is ranked 57th. 57/117 = 48.7%, so he's been more productive than 51.3% of the players who have played as many possessions has he has. Slightly better than average.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/men/2025-stats.html

34% is the ACC conference average. If you look at that, that number is made up of a lot of role players chucking threes. If you limit it to the guys playing and shooting, say more than 20 attempts, the average is 34.6% and if you limit to the guys shooting in volume, JJ Has taken 45 threes, so let's use that as our minimum, the average is 34.3%.​

​

So the answer is 34%. As of today, JJ is shooting 27%. Last season he shot 32.4%. JJ is below average shooting the three.​