Stay Tuned: MSG being Discussed!

[senorpalmer]

I am feeling a little differently than most people on this board. I've been to only two BETs, the last two, and it was definitely an awesome experience (especially this year). BUT - it was hideously expensive, and exhausting. (Granted, I am older, and am more easily exhausted.) I understand the appeal of driving up to a stadium, getting out, and going to see a ball game! And it not costing $500 a pop. It's not a bad drive to NC from here, and there are a lot of flights. Hotels are plentiful and CHEAP. The weather would be good. Spring would not be in full swing, but it probably wouldn't be snowing like it was in NYC.

I dunno, guys, I see the appeal of Greensboro.!

Crazy talk. I say that as respectfully as possible.

 

[Guinness]

I am feeling a little differently than most people on this board. I've been to only two BETs, the last two, and it was definitely an awesome experience (especially this year). BUT - it was hideously expensive, and exhausting. (Granted, I am older, and am more easily exhausted.) I understand the appeal of driving up to a stadium, getting out, and going to see a ball game! And it not costing $500 a pop. It's not a bad drive to NC from here, and there are a lot of flights. Hotels are plentiful and CHEAP. The weather would be good. Spring would not be in full swing, but it probably wouldn't be snowing like it was in NYC.

I dunno, guys, I see the appeal of Greensboro.

Personally I cannot stand Greensboro but as much as I like NYC and the games being in MSG it really is cost prohibitive. I would prefer Charlotte over Greensboro personally. More to do.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[NKR1978]

I can't see the B1G going to NYC. The only schools near are Penn State, Maryland, and Rutgers. Penn State and Rutgers have less basketball history than any of the schools in the conference. (OK, throw Nebraska, Northwestern in there too.)

They do have alumni there. I don't know. Makes more sense to rotate NBE or AAC. NBE could play Chicago or Indianapolis easily in alternating years if they could be talked into it.

(Actually Rutgers doesn't have much tradition in anything really.)

Get what you're saying, but each big 10 school has a huge presence in manhattan. They might want to play up that fact to tri state area cable providers.

 

[HoustonCuse]

MSG has an opt-clause when certain attendance numbers aren't met, and trust me Providence, Seton Hall, Georgetown, St. John's, Xavier, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Villanova are all small Catholic schools who won't be able to fillup MSG consistently. UConn, Syracuse had the biggest fanbases, and recently Louisville filled up MSG. If the ACC will commit to MSG a consistent or semi-consistent basis MSG will go with ACC over the Big East. Only Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and maybe Creighton have decent fanbases that will travel. Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, DePaul, Xavier aren't big and St. John's has lost a lot of city support which has gone towards Syracuse and UConn the Johnnies only draw well now when UConn, Syracuse, and Duke come to MSG.

This is how I understood it, but won't MSG need to get the returns on the Catholic 7 tournament before preemptively opting out? They will need performance data from the first few tournaments to invoke whatever out clause they have. And by the time they have that, the ACC will have had to have secured a home for their tourney in the out years. I'm not sure how the timing of this could work unless it is a no-earlier-than 2020 deal for the ACC.

 

[SUFan44]

We do realize this is not our conference anymore (meaning Va/NC/SC schools). It is our conference (Boston to Chicago and down to Miami), larger, more dynamic, and with more potential. And we realize that much of the tradition will give way to progress and most of us embrace it.

That said, the ACC Tournament is the single greatest tradition event in the state of North Carolina. 8 teams (was 9 with Maryland) are within and easy day's drive. It is an obsession here. Kids used to bring in TVs to school for the Thursday day games. (Championship was on Saturday then.) My guess is this will only work as an alternating sight. Greensboro or Charlotte one year, MSG the next, and so on. That would be the ideal.

How that can happen, I don't know. MSG apparently wants annual commitment. Just don't know if the NBE (Cath 7) could be negotiated into alternating also so MSG is booked annually. Apparently, MSG can get out of NBE contract only if certain metrics are not met.

Understand what you're saying, but I think the conference gains much more by hosting in NYC every year than they could hosting in NC.

Tons more media exposure, a better championship time slot (never understood the Saturday afternoon slot anyway), and a destination tournament. No offense to Greensboro or Charlotte, but it doesn't have the same pizzazz as New York. Never will.

Plus, if you say it's the tradition that it is, then why has it not stayed in one place? It has been in Charlotte, Greensboro, Atlanta, Tampa and Washington, D.C., all in the last eight years. That isn't the greatest way to create a brand in my opinion - that's looking to create buzz for a stagnant tournament that was struggling to draw fans and sell tickets.

I really expect this to get done pretty permanently. And I'd be surprised if it isn't done soon.

 

[longtimefan]

MSG has an opt-clause when certain attendance numbers aren't met, and trust me Providence, Seton Hall, Georgetown, St. John's, Xavier, Creighton, DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Villanova are all small Catholic schools who won't be able to fillup MSG consistently. UConn, Syracuse had the biggest fanbases, and recently Louisville filled up MSG. If the ACC will commit to MSG a consistent or semi-consistent basis MSG will go with ACC over the Big East. Only Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and maybe Creighton have decent fanbases that will travel. Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, DePaul, Xavier aren't big and St. John's has lost a lot of city support which has gone towards Syracuse and UConn the Johnnies only draw well now when UConn, Syracuse, and Duke come to MSG.

At this year's BET, our group was in front of some Villanova hard-core fans. I made the mistake of getting too cocky about having attended 22 or 23 tourneys in the Garden. One of the group politely pointed out that his buddy #1 had been to all but 2 of them, and #2 had been to every one. I was properly chastised.

Anyway, one of them engaged me in a conversation the last day of the tournament concerning the future of the C-7. He suggested that all of their member schools needed to market the NYC/MSG/BET experience to their fan bases, especially their alums. He was concerned, if not fearful, that the BB-only schools would not be able to fill the building going forward, regardless of what they did, and that they would not be able to maintain the venue for the new league.

 

[orangefan13]

Understand what you're saying, but I think the conference gains much more by hosting in NYC every year than they could hosting in NC.

Tons more media exposure, a better championship time slot (never understood the Saturday afternoon slot anyway), and a destination tournament. No offense to Greensboro or Charlotte, but it doesn't have the same pizzazz as New York. Never will.

Plus, if you say it's the tradition that it is, then why has it not stayed in one place? It has been in Charlotte, Greensboro, Atlanta, Tampa and Washington, D.C., all in the last eight years. That isn't the greatest way to create a brand in my opinion - that's looking to create buzz for a stagnant tournament that was struggling to draw fans and sell tickets.

I really expect this to get done pretty permanently. And I'd be surprised if it isn't done soon.

+1

 

[AlaskaSU]

I can't see the B1G going to NYC. The only schools near are Penn State, Maryland, and Rutgers. Penn State and Rutgers have less basketball history than any of the schools in the conference. (OK, throw Nebraska, Northwestern in there too.)

They do have alumni there. I don't know. Makes more sense to rotate NBE or AAC. NBE could play Chicago or Indianapolis easily in alternating years if they could be talked into it.

(Actually Rutgers doesn't have much tradition in anything really.)

You're not counting naked wind sprints.

 

[The General]

F Greensboro.

 

[Alsacs]

This is how I understood it, but won't MSG need to get the returns on the Catholic 7 tournament before preemptively opting out? They will need performance data from the first few tournaments to invoke whatever out clause they have. And by the time they have that, the ACC will have had to have secured a home for their tourney in the out years. I'm not sure how the timing of this could work unless it is a no-earlier-than 2020 deal for the ACC.

The Catholic-7 Big East will get the 2014-2015 Big East Tournaments in MSG to show they can fillip that arena. MSG seats a little over 20k for basketball I am sure the Catholic 7 will need atleast 15k show up to get the MSG people happy. I don't know the benchmarks, but atleast 75% would be my standard.

 

[The General]

We do realize this is not our conference anymore (meaning Va/NC/SC schools). It is our conference (Boston to Chicago and down to Miami), larger, more dynamic, and with more potential. And we realize that much of the tradition will give way to progress and most of us embrace it.

That said, the ACC Tournament is the single greatest tradition event in the state of North Carolina. 8 teams (was 9 with Maryland) are within and easy day's drive. It is an obsession here. Kids used to bring in TVs to school for the Thursday day games. (Championship was on Saturday then.) My guess is this will only work as an alternating sight. Greensboro or Charlotte one year, MSG the next, and so on. That would be the ideal.

How that can happen, I don't know. MSG apparently wants annual commitment. Just don't know if the NBE (Cath 7) could be negotiated into alternating also so MSG is booked annually. Apparently, MSG can get out of NBE contract only if certain metrics are not met.

We had TV's in the schools.

No offense but you say you embrace progress and in the same breath encourage "alternating sites". Once the ACC tourny is in NYC, I don't think it will ever return to NC. Nor should it. The exposure, recruiting, fan experience are unparalleled. 20 years from now no one will remember it being anywhere else.

I think the ACC will establish a new tradition.

 

[Col. Bleep]

We had TV's in the schools.

No offense but you say you embrace progress and in the same breath encourage "alternating sites". Once the ACC tourny is in NYC, I don't think it will ever return to NC. Nor should it. The exposure, recruiting, fan experience are unparalleled. 20 years from now no one will remember it being anywhere else.

I think the ACC will establish a new tradition.

Not sure a move to MSG would do very much for ACC exposure or recruiting.
And it appears the ACC has decided to break with tradition and change its identity from being a "southern" conference.

Ultimately then, all that really matters in this decision is $$$ & prestige.
Both of those factors probably way heavily in MSG's favor.

 

[The General]

Not sure a move to MSG would do very much for ACC exposure or recruiting.

Ultimately, all that really matters in this decision is $$$ & prestige.
Both of those factors probably way heavily in MSG's favor.

Why do you think Duke plays a home and home with St. Johns?

 

[Alsacs]

The ACC needs to play up its strength. Which until they show it on the field in football is basketball. If I was running the ACC I would rotate the ACC Tournament between New York City Madison Square Garden/Barclay's, Charlotte's Time Warner Arena, Atlanta Philips Center, and if they want to throw a bone to Greensboro go ahead. In a 5 yr rotation 2-NY/Barclay's/MSG-2 NC/Charlotte/Greensboro- 1 Atlanta. I want MSG to get it more frequently, but this type everyone gets their way and 4 out of 5 years its in a destination city New York City, Charlotte, Atlanta.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Why do you think Duke plays a home and home with St. Johns?

Everyone wants to play in NYC and MSG.
Bright lights, big city, biggest stage, maybe alumni base...etc., etc.
If that's "exposure", fine.
It's what I mean by "prestige."

But is that really going to boost Duke's basketball program?
If they didn't play in MSG... don't think there would be any material difference in it's stature or recruitment.

 

[OrangeOnions]

The Big Apple is ripe for the picking. If Swafford is as smart and strategic as we think he is then he makes the move at least to nudge out the 7 and to keep the Big 10 out. No one is knocking down the door of Greensboro anytime soon.

 

[Alsacs]

The Big Apple is ripe for the picking. If Swafford is as smart and strategic as we think he is then he makes the move at least to nudge out the 7 and to keep the Big 10 out. No one is knocking down the door of Greensboro anytime soon.

B1G isn't a threat IMO. Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland are the only Eastern teams and I doubt the B1G will leave Chicago and Indianapolis which is the strength of where B1G alums are. MSG wants a commitment from the ACC that is the problem. Of the B1G, ACC, Big East only the Catholic 7 conference will give MSG a yearly commitment, the ACC and maybe the B1G would want MSG as part of a rotation. I think MSG will go with the ACC if they can give the building a multi-year commitment. Providence-Xavier, Georgetown-St. John's session at MSG won't fillup the building and MSG people know it. If I was the ACC I would make a deal with MSG give them 2 years 2016-2017 ACC tournaments with an option for the future if the conference fans show up and it is successful.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

I don't see how MSG would take a every other year deal! I don't think the catholic 7 are going anywhere! Now that SU, LVille, and Pitt are gone, Nova, St. John's and other schools will get better organically. I know a lot of people on this board have an elitist mentality when it comes to our bball team and conference which is warranted but it's not a good business decision for MSG to rotate what league plays there every year. Maybe Barclays will boot the A10 and do it every other or every 2 years.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree this is a great move, but I wonder what the southern folks will get in agreeing to this. MSG should be a no brainer, but if I'm an established ACC member with fans entrenched in the south, I'd need something in return to soften the blow for the local fans.

Here's a compromise - the ACC will NEVER play its football championship game at the Garden. LOL

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't see how MSG would take a every other year deal! I don't think the catholic 7 are going anywhere! Now that SU, LVille, and Pitt are gone, Nova, St. John's and other schools will get better organically. I know a lot of people on this board have an elitist mentality when it comes to our bball team and conference which is warranted but it's not a good business decision for MSG to rotate what league plays there every year. Maybe Barclays will boot the A10 and do it every other or every 2 years.

Did the teams in the A-10 get better organically? Without playing in a premier league, the Catholic 7 will soon be drawing 2nd tier recruits.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not sure a move to MSG would do very much for ACC exposure or recruiting.
And it appears the ACC has decided to break with tradition and change its identity from being a "southern" conference.

Ultimately then, all that really matters in this decision is $$$ & prestige.
Both of those factors probably way heavily in MSG's favor.

Dude, it's about proximity to the media as much as it is a destination for fans to travel to. The media are mostly in NYC. Thus the games get the most attention, or at least a disproportionate amount compared to other tournaments taking place at the same time.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't see how MSG would take a every other year deal! I don't think the catholic 7 are going anywhere! Now that SU, LVille, and Pitt are gone, Nova, St. John's and other schools will get better organically. I know a lot of people on this board have an elitist mentality when it comes to our bball team and conference which is warranted but it's not a good business decision for MSG to rotate what league plays there every year. Maybe Barclays will boot the A10 and do it every other or every 2 years.

What you aren't getting look at the enrollments for the Catholic schools. They are all tiny except DePaul and St. John's. For the Big East to keep MSG they need bodies in the seats. Syracuse, UConn, Louisville BROUGHT the most people. Providence loves having MSG because it keeps them somewhat relevant nationally. The small schools have to get non-alum fans to go to NYC to keep the MSG relationship alive. Only Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, have creditability nationally. Butler, St. John's to a degree as well, but this conference is going to be fighting for national respect. There is a reason there is a riff right now within the conference. Georgetown is flexing its muscles at Providence, Seton Hall, and even Marquette to get the Commissioner of Georgetown's choosing and no more good old boy network like the Big East had in the past. The reason the Big East fell apart was little old tiny Providence College had too much influence and control.
InstitutionLocation Enrollment
Butler University Indianapolis, Indiana 4,667
Creighton University Omaha, Nebraska 7,730
DePaul University Chicago, Illinois 25,398
Georgetown University Washington, D.C. 16,437
Marquette University Milwaukee, Wisconsin 11,599
Providence College Providence, Rhode Island 4,585
St. John's University New York City, New York 21,354
Seton Hall University South Orange, New Jersey 9,745
Villanova University Villanova, Pennsylvania 10,482
Xavier University Cincinnati, Ohio 6,584

 

[orangecuse]

The Carolinas are loaded with northern folks (midwest too) especially the high metro cities as in Charlotte & Raleigh. I've been in the Charlotte area for some 18 plus years, and it seems the majority of people you meet are transplants, etc. Much of the same can be said about Atlanta as well. Florida, for the most part, is a northern state other than its latitude. For years now UNC & Duke get their top/best players from NY/NYC, Chicago, Calif., etc. UNC/Duke/WF have a large percentage of students from the NE.

Although it doesn't take too long to get to the rural outskirts where the demographic is quite different (considerably more home grown southerners ) that is clearly not the demographic areas that drive the ratings, hence the $$$$.

I guess my point is, with a large segment of the population in the conference's larger meaningful southern markets being transplants, along with a student body with northern ties as well, change is just more of the status quo that has been going on down here for a few decades now anyways...so moving to MSG really would appear obvious, proactive & staying ahead of the curve, imo.

 

[realorange]

The Carolinas are loaded with northern folks (midwest too) especially the high metro cities as in Charlotte & Raleigh. I've been in the Charlotte area for some 18 plus years, and it seems the majority of people you meet are transplants, etc. Much of the same can be said about Atlanta as well. Florida, for the most part, is a northern state other than its latitude. For years now UNC & Duke get their top/best players from NY/NYC, Chicago, Calif., etc. UNC/Duke/WF have a large percentage of students from the NE.

Although it doesn't take too long to get to the rural outskirts where the demographic is quite different (considerably more home grown southerners ) that is clearly not the demographic areas that drive the ratings, hence the $$$$.

I guess my point is, with a large segment of the population in the conference's larger meaningful southern markets being transplants, along with a student body with northern ties as well, change is just more of the status quo that has been going on down here for a few decades now anyways...so moving to MSG really would appear obvious, proactive & staying ahead of the curve, imo.

Help me out here. If there are a lot of northern transplants in the South(and there definitely are), why would we want to travel back to MSG for games that we could see, for example, in Charlotte?

 

[Alsacs]

The Carolinas are loaded with northern folks (midwest too) especially the high metro cities as in Charlotte & Raleigh. I've been in the Charlotte area for some 18 plus years, and it seems the majority of people you meet are transplants, etc. Much of the same can be said about Atlanta as well. Florida, for the most part, is a northern state other than its latitude. For years now UNC & Duke get their top/best players from NY/NYC, Chicago, Calif., etc. UNC/Duke/WF have a large percentage of students from the NE.

Although it doesn't take too long to get to the rural outskirts where the demographic is quite different (considerably more home grown southerners ) that is clearly not the demographic areas that drive the ratings, hence the $$$$.

I guess my point is, with a large segment of the population in the conference's larger meaningful southern markets being transplants, along with a student body with northern ties as well, change is just more of the status quo that has been going on down here for a few decades now anyways...so moving to MSG really would appear obvious, proactive & staying ahead of the curve, imo.

Charlotte is a transplant town, but the town is probably 40% Tar Heel fans, 15%Gamecock fans, 10%Clemson Tiger fans, 10% Wolfpack fans, 25% all other teams, and its an ACC town for sure. I would love the ACC Tournament at TWC arena as its small, but would be packed each year. TWC only seats 15-16k, but I think it would be filled up a lot more regularally than the large mausoleum during the early rounds unless UNC is playing in Greensboro. Charlotte would fillup more even if UNC wasn't playing.