Stop blaming the fans for attendance

[OrangeDW]

Personally I think even those that can’t afford to pay the ticket prices need to show more “want to”. If that means sneaking into the Dome, so be it. YOU GOTTA WANT IT!

 

[UBSU]

The lack of interest in football is not just at the Dome, but away games as well. If we can't fill up the Dome for home games when we are undefeated playing Clemson, it says one thing.

This weekend there were 10 of us in our party who bought tickets for the UNC game in Chapel Hill. There seemed to be less than 200 SU fans in Orange wear in the entire stadium at that game. Not only was the result of the game embarrassing (and embarrassing to sit there amongst obnoxious Carolina fans ), but the fan support for this team during an away game was abysmal. And there are plenty of Upstaters in the area who could have gone to the game and shown support for the program. They don't turn out regardless of location.

 

[qdawgg]

I’m with ya. The best part of having a kid when I was 40 was having my wife post “first day of school” photos of our kids the same day my high school friends were posting pictures of their kids “off to college!”

The real go getters had kids graduate college before mine started school.

God, I’m glad I’m not the only one.

 

[Trueblue25]

The casual fan probably doesn’t even think about SU football for a wide variety of reasons including marketing, performance, disconnection from the University itself and SU being more a basketball school.

Then the casual fan goes “oh wow look honey, Syracuse is on ESPN against UNC *insert any top 40 program thats annihilated us on national tv lately*…

… oh my

…you know what, sure, lets go to Beak ‘n Skiff”

 

[Bayside44]

The lack of interest in football is not just at the Dome, but away games as well. If we can't fill up the Dome for home games when we are undefeated playing Clemson, it says one thing.

This weekend there were 10 of us in our party who bought tickets for the UNC game in Chapel Hill. There seemed to be less than 200 SU fans in Orange wear in the entire stadium at that game. Not only was the result of the game embarrassing (and embarrassing to sit there amongst obnoxious Carolina fans ), but the fan support for this team during an away game was abysmal. And there are plenty of Upstaters in the area who could have gone to the game and shown support for the program. They don't turn out regardless of location.

I wasn’t at this one but there was an orange chunk on tv. And we turn out well on the road in those areas for football hoop and even lax.

 

[gmoney44]

The lack of interest in football is not just at the Dome, but away games as well. If we can't fill up the Dome for home games when we are undefeated playing Clemson, it says one thing.

You didn't have to be Nostradamus to see how the Clemson, NC and FSU game were going to go. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me type thing. Casual fans have been burned time and time again. It’s going to take more than a 4 and 0 start against practically no one to get them back.

 

[UBSU]

I wasn’t at this one but there was an orange chunk on tv. And we turn out well on the road in those areas for football hoop and even lax.

That typically is the case, particularly for NC State games and even at Wake Forest. But this game had a sea of Carolina Blue. The chunk was probably the corner ticket section that the Dome sells for away games. It felt like we were on some type of Orange Island in there.

 

[OrangeDW]

Oh, context is fun... I wasn't saying that IS what happened. We were in the midst of the chicken or the egg argument, and we discussed how poor play could factor in so I brought up how poor fan support could've played the driving role.

Not every post is made in isolation.

Should also point out that back when the program was good and going to bowls almost every year including a few major ones, and the fans were packing the place many weeks….they didn’t reinvest that money into the program anyway.

So the fall off was their own damn fault, not the fans.

 

[Cusefan95]

Where there’s a will there’s a way. I have a “life” and go very out of my way, using time from work, while sleep deprived to go to every single game. It’s a matter of how much you want it imo.

I suppose this is true. If I wanted to skip my daughters soccer games and sons baseball games and prioritize getting to every Syracuse football over them, I could conceivably do it.

But if that’s your approach, I’d strongly encourage you to re-evaluate your priorities in life.

Can you just admit you made a really stupid, poorly thought out comment instead of getting butt hurt everyone is jamming you about it?

 

[JustPherU]

Nebraska

Maybe not that exact record, but they have been irrelevant since the Tom Osborne and more recently since Bo Pelini era. The program sunk 10x the amount of money into the program vs. Syracuse trying to get back to relevance. They went after Scott Frost from UCF who was supposed to bring the program back -and got 4.5 losing seasons in a row. No bowls... Yet they sellout every home game regardless of that losing record.

That sellout of every home game is because some rich boosters want to keep their sellout streak intact.Usually stadium is about 80% full.
Of course that’s still more than SU, but it’s also a State school.

 

[gmoney44]

That sellout of every home game is because some rich boosters want to keep their sellout streak intact.Usually stadium is about 80% full.
Of course that’s still more than SU, but it’s also a State school.

Nebraska also has 5 national Championships and has an argument as the best team in the country from 1970 - 2000. That type of success builds generations of hardcore fans. We aren’t in the same stratosphere as Nebraska football.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I think TrueBlue has made the most cogent points that align with my thoughts.

• The university needs to better "market" the team and the team needs to just be better.

Greater Syracuse (Onondaga County has 500k people). The fact is season ticket holder are the "fanatics" and seem to hover in the 20-25k range forever. How many of those are alumni. How many alumni exist in the pool of 500k people. Other than that you are relying on locals with no connection to the university other than proximity to be the sole supporters of the team (even when they don't warrant the support sometimes) and the local who has no connection to college sports or football to fill the gaps. Also as a person who was a fanatic local with no connection, I have seen my willingness to support SU and college football in general with all the transfer rules and NIL etc. I realize that I am just one person but that's where I am at. It has been a common refrain that free agency impacted pro sports fandom and our new free agency model is and will ruin college sports fandom for the have nots (fball and bball mostly). (luckily we still have the opportunity to be a have in bball).

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think TrueBlue has made the most cogent points that align with my thoughts.

• The university needs to better "market" the team and the team needs to just be better.

Greater Syracuse (Onondaga County has 500k people). The fact is season ticket holder are the "fanatics" and seem to hover in the 20-25k range forever. How many of those are alumni. How many alumni exist in the pool of 500k people. Other than that you are relying on locals with no connection to the university other than proximity to be the sole supporters of the team (even when they don't warrant the support sometimes) and the local who has no connection to college sports or football to fill the gaps. Also as a person who was a fanatic local with no connection, I have seen my willingness to support SU and college football in general with all the transfer rules and NIL etc. I realize that I am just one person but that's where I am at. It has been a common refrain that free agency impacted pro sports fandom and our new free agency model is and will ruin college sports fandom for the have nots (fball and bball mostly). (luckily we still have the opportunity to be a have in bball).

Fans are just fair weather in general. Before Josh Allen arrived, the bills were a laughingstock. Now it's the cool thing to do. I'm more annoyed by locals in the Greater Syracuse area that identify with a franchise 2 hours away and completely ignore the hometown team. Have some pride in your town FFS.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Fans are just fair weather in general. Before Josh Allen arrived, the bills were a laughingstock. Now it's the cool thing to do. I'm more annoyed by locals in the Greater Syracuse area that identify with a franchise 2 hours away and completely ignore the hometown team. Have some pride in your town FFS.

More people leave this area than come.

Perhaps Micron will help. But I doubt it - I think this has the smell of the destiny USA hopes and dreams.

 

[syracuse95]

That typically is the case, particularly for NC State games and even at Wake Forest. But this game had a sea of Carolina Blue. The chunk was probably the corner ticket section that the Dome sells for away games. It felt like we were on some type of Orange Island in there.

Given that this is UNC's best season in most of its fanbase's lifetime, I suspect two things are true. One, they have a lot fewer unsold seats available at their box office. Two, their fans are a lot less willing to sell their tickets on Ticketmaster or StubHub. Since those are the only way for SU fans to get seats outside of the "Orange Island" sold through the Dome box office, I'm not sure its fair to say we don't support the team on the road.

We are, generally, one of the better travelling fanbases in the league outside of Clemson and FSU.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think TrueBlue has made the most cogent points that align with my thoughts.

• The university needs to better "market" the team and the team needs to just be better.

Greater Syracuse (Onondaga County has 500k people). The fact is season ticket holder are the "fanatics" and seem to hover in the 20-25k range forever. How many of those are alumni. How many alumni exist in the pool of 500k people. Other than that you are relying on locals with no connection to the university other than proximity to be the sole supporters of the team (even when they don't warrant the support sometimes) and the local who has no connection to college sports or football to fill the gaps. Also as a person who was a fanatic local with no connection, I have seen my willingness to support SU and college football in general with all the transfer rules and NIL etc. I realize that I am just one person but that's where I am at. It has been a common refrain that free agency impacted pro sports fandom and our new free agency model is and will ruin college sports fandom for the have nots (fball and bball mostly). (luckily we still have the opportunity to be a have in bball).

I'd be curious to know how many season ticket holders are alumni. Obviously a small sample size, but I've got a group of 15-20 that are season ticket holders and the only alum in that group is my father.

 

[shandeezy7]

More people leave this area than come.

Perhaps Micron will help. But I doubt it - I think this has the smell of the destiny USA hopes and dreams.

Neither of those statements are all that accurate. The population of Onondaga County is essentially the same as it was 50 years ago. Not exactly a high growth area but not bleeding population either.

Micron is nothing like Destiny USA. That's not a valid comparison.

 

[sufandu]

Neither of those statements are all that accurate. The population of Onondaga County is essentially the same as it was 50 years ago. Not exactly a high growth area but not bleeding population either.

Micron is nothing like Destiny USA. That's not a valid comparison.

True. There has already been sizeable investment made just in land acquisition.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fans are just fair weather in general. Before Josh Allen arrived, the bills were a laughingstock. Now it's the cool thing to do. I'm more annoyed by locals in the Greater Syracuse area that identify with a franchise 2 hours away and completely ignore the hometown team. Have some pride in your town FFS.

Not quite a "laughingstock". They were roughly a .500 team (best record 9 wins twice, worst record 7 wins once) in the 4 years before they drafted Allen.

In case you haven't noticed, we don't have major league teams in Syracuse anymore; haven't for almost 60 years.

Are you a Yankees fan? A Mets fan? A Giants or Jets fan? A Rangers, Islanders or Devils fan?

When the local team sucks moose balls for 20 years, and then the administration insults its fans, what freaking obligation do we have to support SU sports? No more obligation, I would suggest, than supporting the Crunch in minor league hockey or the Syracuse Mets (they had the chance to get the Yankees who moved to Scranton during the same off season and didn't even try ...) in minor league baseball.

Because our football is most decidedly "minor league" and the basketball team has been trending that way for several years now.

 

[orangecuse]

Not quite a "laughingstock". They were roughly a .500 team (best record 9 wins twice, worst record 7 wins once) in the 4 years before they drafted Allen.

In case you haven't noticed, we don't have major league teams in Syracuse anymore; haven't for almost 60 years.

Are you a Yankees fan? A Mets fan? A Giants or Jets fan? A Rangers, Islanders or Devils fan?

When the local team sucks moose balls for 20 years, and then the administration insults its fans, what freaking obligation do we have to support SU sports? No more obligation, I would suggest, than supporting the Crunch in minor league hockey or the Syracuse Mets (they had the chance to get the Yankees who moved to Scranton during the same off season and didn't even try ...) in minor league baseball.

Because our football is most decidedly "minor league" and the basketball team has been trending that way for several years now.

100%

I wonder if some folks here connect the dots as to why SU basketball fans are everywhere? Perhaps, the folks that attend the basketball campus of the university vs. the football one is far greater? Or, perhaps, the local Syracuse and vicinity area (whose populous is plentiful and abundant & who are generally the main players) that connect to it more so than football because of its success over the past decades?

Maybe there's also causation because the university actually carries the name of the city, area, etc. and that has played a huge role in why so many locals (who live there now or at one time, etc.) whom never attended the university identify with it, it's after all, their home town team. Undoubtedly, proudful, to a degree, no matter what garb is spewed about the city's/area's shortcomings, etc. However, folks don't want/like to identify with a loser (football) and won't as easily overlook (as in hoops) an authority/administration whose condescension, etc. over the years has been more than notable.

SU football, if it had been any good over these past two plus decades could easily pack a 50K dome IMO. The outreach of folks east to Utica, south to Binghamton, west to Rochester is plentiful. And, the North country folks love Syracuse from my experiences. Combined, that is clearly a large enough population in which the university can draw from (as it does for hoops) admirably supporting the university, etc.

 

[Cuse181]

True. There has already been sizeable investment made just in land acquisition.

Cross your fingers and toes they get that grant money

 

[Cusefan95]

Fans are just fair weather in general. Before Josh Allen arrived, the bills were a laughingstock. Now it's the cool thing to do. I'm more annoyed by locals in the Greater Syracuse area that identify with a franchise 2 hours away and completely ignore the hometown team. Have some pride in your town FFS.

I’ve had NJ Devils season tickets for years. Since the new ownership group bought the team in 2013, they have tried about 18 billion things to “market” the team. But the team was generally terrible, so while those things moved the needle a little it wasn’t a massive attendance uptick. Last year the team was unexpectedly good, and a lot of people expect them to challenge for the Stanley Cup this year. Season tickets increased by the greatest number in team history this year, and about half the games it’s effectively impossible to find tickets for - winning is the best form of marketing possible. (Just looking at annual attendance for the last 20 years, I’d say “marketing” had no discernible impact at all).

Another example is the Florida Panthers - usually one of the worst teams for attendance in the NHL, they made the Stanley Cup finals last year and are suddenly a tough ticket many nights. “Marketing” did squat for attendance; winning did a lot for it.

Honestly Syracuse has screwed this up in every possible way though. The time to build the traditions that might have helped keep fans coming even when the team struggled was the 80s/90s, but instead of putting any effort into that the BOT allowed the athletic department revenues to be plundered. Then when the team started losing and attendance dropped, then they started to try marketing efforts - that was just putting lipstick on a pig which irritated fans even more. Insulting fans by telling them to get a life didn’t help, and ideally “tough times” are four win seasons not 1 win seasons. At this point I generally roll my eyes at any “marketing” idea for Syracuse football - if the team can’t at least make bowl games and be competitive in games they lose, that stuff is still just lipstick on a pig. There is absolutely no reason to think “marketing” a 6 or 7 win team that gets blown out in the losses will have a positive impact on attendance.

People are fair weather, they will show up if Syracuse starts to win more and at least not be embarrassed in losses. So I agree that is the only secret sauce here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

More people leave this area than come.

Perhaps Micron will help. But I doubt it - I think this has the smell of the destiny USA hopes and dreams.

actually population has been holding generally steady over the past 10 years, but don’t let facts get in the way of a lazy narrative.

Love the optimism, champ.

 

[upperdeck]

I think its going to take many good seasons to build up a fanbase. SU has had some bad games. But also a ton of really good games to watch that no one cared to show up for.. Are you a fan of the team/the game or not is the question.

 

[syracuse95]

SU football, if it had been any good over these past two plus decades could easily pack a 50K dome IMO.

I'm not sure about that. From 1987-2001, we had 15 consecutive winning seasons. In 2001, there were only 4 teams with that many or more consecutive winning seasons...Syracuse, Michigan, FSU, and Nebraska. In 2001, we had gone to bowls in 12 of the prior 15 seasons, in a time when there were only 25 bowl games. We won 10+ games 5 times in that 15 year run, and most of those were 11 game regular seasons. We averaged 3 losses per year during that span, including bowl losses. We appeared in the Top 25 in every one of those seasons, and finished in the Top 25 in 10 of them. So, in the 2001 season we had a pretty longstanding record of success. At an elite level.

Our average home attendance in 2001? 41,103

A) Scooch is right. The Dome is too big.
B) I'm so glad I graduated from SU in '95. My youth corresponds to peak SU Football.