SU Football Culture vs Clemson

[dlegend44]

I spent time at Clemson in the late 90's before their ascension to one of the top programs in college football. At the time, SU had better coaches along with more talent and success on the field than did the Tigers. We had just embarrassed Clemson in the '96 Gator Bowl 41-0! However, I was shocked by the amount of fan support for the Clemson program. Game days were events and fans drove hours to spend the entire day at the campus. Tailgaiting was just as important as the game with different sections for good clean family fun and fraternity row was nearby so they could get after it without bothering the families. There were a lot of restaurants and bars in walking distance of the stadium that made most of their money during the 7 Tiger home games each season. The university gave free tickets to every student and they were good seats. They had a football booster program that started with Freshman students contributing just $20 a year so they could start to build a strong booster program.

The point I am trying to make is the games at Clemson were a fun event and it was about more than just the product on the field. The university made a conscious effort to develop their students into lifelong football fans and initiate young boosters that would support the program financially for generations. I remember thinking that the football culture at SU was nothing like that and Clemson was a sleeping giant. I was born and raised in Syracuse and the football team will always be #1 in my heart. I like the new stadium upgrades and I think Babers is a good coach, but we need to do a hell of a lot more with the game day culture and fan development to compete with the likes of Clemson. Get it done Wildhack...LGO!

 

[longislandcuse]

Spot on post.

I spend a decent amount of time in Greenville, SC and there’s a lot of money there that goes directly to Clemson Athletics. I actually ran into Dabo on a bridge at Falls Park. Players and coaches spend a good bit of time hanging out downtown.

People generally think of Clemson as a small town university, SEC-like, but they have a small city like Cuse just 30 minutes away that contains a massive alumni base.

First things first… Any chance Syracuse can emulate this….

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[NJCuse97]

The city of Syracuse is what needs to step up. It needs to develop an economy and nightlife that will attract SU talent. Med and research programs at the school help this and then become feeders. The school’s alumni run upon graduation because there is nothing career-wise to stay for. I won’t argue there is need for more alumni engagement, but it simply will not happen if there is no reason other than to fund the football team.

 

[dlegend44]

The city of Syracuse is what needs to step up. It needs to develop an economy and nightlife that will attract SU talent. Med and research programs at the school help this and then become feeders. The school’s alumni run upon graduation because there is nothing career-wise to stay for. I won’t argue there is need for more alumni engagement, but it simply will not happen if there is no reason other than to fund the football team.

I definitely agree with what you are saying. A lot of our alumni live in NYC. If we gave them a reason to fly-in on a Friday night, take in a Saturday game and then fly home on Sunday...a lot of money would pour into the city of Syracuse. Football games should be major events in Syracuse and sadly that just isn't the case. I spent a lot of time in Madison, Wisconsin and was impressed with the synergy between the city of Madison and UW football program. The streets of downtown Madison shutdown and it is filled with people eating, drinking and watching the Badgers. Hard to make the argument the weather in Madison is better than Syracuse or Wisconsin is way more exciting than Upstate NY. Build it and they will come!

 

[longislandcuse]

The city of Syracuse is what needs to step up. It needs to develop an economy and nightlife that will attract SU talent. Med and research programs at the school help this and then become feeders. The school’s alumni run upon graduation because there is nothing career-wise to stay for. I won’t argue there is need for more alumni engagement, but it simply will not happen if there is no reason other than to fund the football team.

Good point about the alumni.

As I pointed out with Greenville, Clemson’s alumni typically move there upon graduation. Greenville is one of the fastest growing cities in the country with a ton of employment opportunity. At 30 minutes away, they stay engaged with with the University and Football Program.

If Clemson grads move to a major city, it’s typically Atlanta, at less than a 2 hours drive. Charlotte, about the same.

I’ve driven 85 quite a few times on the weekend and it’s a parade of Tiger Paws.

Syracuse grads seem to take media jobs all over the country or move to NYC.

 

[SUskibum]

Good point about the alumni.

As I pointed out with Greenville, Clemson’s alumni typically move there upon graduation. Greenville is one of the fastest growing cities in the country with a ton of employment opportunity. At 30 minutes away, they stay engaged with with the University and Football Program.

If Clemson grads move to a major city, it’s typically Atlanta, at less than a 2 hours drive. Charlotte, about the same.

I’ve driven 85 quite a few times on the weekend and it’s a parade of Tiger Paws.

Syracuse grads seem to take media jobs all over the country or move to NYC.

I would say that >60% of Cuse Alumni base is in in DC, Philly, NYC, Boston or the surrounding areas. Those are all 3-5 driving hours from the Dome and are well within scope for traveling to a game for a day or for an overnight.

You would get the draw if it was a bigger event I think. I travel the entire south east and I can’t tell you how often I speak with people who will be driving 2+ hrs to get the to ‘local’ SEC/ACC game (Noles, Tigers, Tigers, Dawgs, Gators, even places like gamecocks and Ole Miss) Neither the school nor the City do very much for it to promote Cuse but I do think we have enough people close enough that there is potential to make it an event.

I do think JW has made some progess here already and I expect more. This all takes inve$tment though and if we could get back into the 7-10 win range again, I think it makes the investment easier for both the School and the City because it would add a bit more certainty to the payoff.

 

[RandomGuy]

Poverty rate in Cuse is 32% with a median income of $35k. Bottom 10 in the country. Greenville County SC is at a modest $60k median income. 10% poverty. When football is a religion, and there is a chance for disposable income? Great environment to build a winning program.

Tuscaloosa county AL has a median income of $53k. We lack both the religion and the $$.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Poverty rate in Cuse is 32% with a median income of $35k. Bottom 10 in the country. Greenville County SC is at a modest $60k median income. 10% poverty. When football is a religion, and there is a chance for disposable income? Great environment to build a winning program.

Tuscaloosa county AL has a median income of $53k. We lack both the religion and the $$.

I would add to the religion point that I think a lot of SU fans watch a lot of pro sports teams like the Bills, Giants, Jets, Pats, etc. and other pro sports which eat into the amount of investment. In the South the college football teams are the pro teams, there's less support for NFL teams like the Titans, Panthers, Falcons, Jags, Bucs, etc.

 

[longislandcuse]

Poverty rate in Cuse is 32% with a median income of $35k. Bottom 10 in the country. Greenville County SC is at a modest $60k median income. 10% poverty. When football is a religion, and there is a chance for disposable income? Great environment to build a winning program.

Tuscaloosa county AL has a median income of $53k. We lack both the religion and the $$.

You can also take the median income difference and factor in a lower cost of living and less taxes.

 

[CuseCactus]

I was very disappointed by the off campus scene when my son and I visited campus last month. Of course it was June - and the students were gone. But M Street has completely diminished as has Greek row. (I’m cool with Greek row diminishing).

My point is - it doesn’t really seem like a college town anymore. Syracuse never will be Austin, or Madison, or Athens - but God, it just seemed dead and sterile. The campus has never looked better - but I gotta be frank - I was bored. We spent about 10 minutes walking around M street, bought some stuff at Schine. Really enjoyed walking around campus - but I doubt I’ll ever go back.

My dad, who’s also an alumni - came up all 4 years I was on the hill. He loved the energy and fun of M Street and of course Gameday. Maybe I’m looking at things as an old guy who thinks the old days were better.

Perhaps if the team recaptures SOME of the glory we enjoyed from ‘87-91 things will perk up a bit. Really hope so.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I was very disappointed by the off campus scene when my son and I visited campus last month. Of course it was June - and the students were gone. But M Street has completely diminished as has Greek row. (I’m cool with Greek row diminishing).

My point is - it doesn’t really seem like a college town anymore. Syracuse never will be Austin, or Madison, or Athens - but God, it just seemed dead and sterile. The campus has never looked better - but I gotta be frank - I was bored. We spent about 10 minutes walking around M street, bought some stuff at Schine. Really enjoyed walking around campus - but I doubt I’ll ever go back.

My dad, who’s also an alumni - came up all 4 years I was on the hill. He loved the energy and fun of M Street and of course Gameday. Maybe I’m looking at things as an old guy who thinks the old days were better.

Perhaps if the team recaptures SOME of the glory we enjoyed from ‘87-91 things will perk up a bit. Really hope so.

Maybe you should have gone up when students were on campus and it was a game day.
As someone who took summer classes and stayed on campus I can tell you it's dead in the summer.

 

[RandomGuy]

I would add to the religion point that I think a lot of SU fans watch a lot of pro sports teams like the Bills, Giants, Jets, Pats, etc. and other pro sports which eat into the amount of investment. In the South the college football teams are the pro teams, there's less support for NFL teams like the Titans, Panthers, Falcons, Jags, Bucs, etc.

Perhaps. On the other side of things, hoops gets support, so we're in a much better spot than a place like Boston. They may earn twice as much as Cuse, but with over 100 colleges in the greater Boston area? They are never going to care. Cuse might actually care if there is a reason to.

 

[RandomGuy]

In rethinking my position.. Creepy Valley manages to do it, 4 hours away.

We finished ranked 9 out of 12 years, from 87 to 98. 40K plus attendance always.. It wasnt until 2006 that everyone gave up. 1 game with 40k plus. Grob effectively destroyed 20 years of Syracuse football culture.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Grob effectively destroyed 20 years of Syracuse football culture.

Grob was the reason I found this message board(previous incarnation). After seeing a couple games I had to do a deep dive and see if I could find out what the heck was going on. I feel like a lot of people just moved on

 

[ImperialOrange]

In rethinking my position.. Creepy Valley manages to do it, 4 hours away.

We finished ranked 9 out of 12 years, from 87 to 98. 40K plus attendance always.. It wasnt until 2006 that everyone gave up. 1 game with 40k plus. Grob effectively destroyed 20 years of Syracuse football culture.

PSU has an enrollment of 98,000 Vs 22,000 at Cuse so different worlds there. Clemson at 23,000 should be the target but as mentioned prior Cuse grads end up leaving for the 95 corridor more often than not.

 

[Bayside44]

We've gone through this a million times. We graduate something like 3500 kids a year give or take, and they are almost all first generation alumni. They move to cities along I95 (and none of them are 3 hour drives, let's stop shaving hours off that drive) and as far as sports go live in an NFL / pro culture environment. And - they work for people who aren't taking Friday off to go to ole state U like they do in the South to party at their fraternity house from 1977 and look a bit ridiculous.

Syracuse people minus like a dozen posters here don't buy a vehicle with a tailgate party first in mind.

The quad stuff is fun, the school is doing what it can to maximize what they have. The bar scene is still an industry around fake IDs.

Flip side of the coin you could bubble Death Valley and put a court down and they'd get 11000 for a UNC hoops game.

 

[TexanMark]

I think some of you are a bit hard on the Cuse. I was downtown in the rain yesterday. We had a great time visiting The Erie Canal Museum and having lunch at Kitty Hoynes. The Kilkenny Irish Cream Ale was fabulous...kinda the anti-IPA. We stopped by The Salt City Market for dessert. Our Rochester friends commented on how Syracuse's downtown is much more vibrant than Rahchester's.

Syracuse is so much more than Marshall Street.

 

[Bayside44]

I think some of you are a bit hard on the Cuse. I was downtown in the rain yesterday. We had a great time visiting The Erie Canal Museum and having lunch at Kitty Hoynes. The Kilkenny Irish Cream Ale was fabulous...kinda the anti-IPA. We stopped by The Salt City Market for dessert. Our Rochester friends commented on how Syracuse's downtown is much more vibrant than Rahchester's.

Syracuse is so much more than Marshall Street.

Good post. It's not eight packed bars on the hill anymore but conversely in those days one only went to downtown for an internship.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I was very disappointed by the off campus scene when my son and I visited campus last month. Of course it was June - and the students were gone. But M Street has completely diminished as has Greek row. (I’m cool with Greek row diminishing).

My point is - it doesn’t really seem like a college town anymore. Syracuse never will be Austin, or Madison, or Athens - but God, it just seemed dead and sterile. The campus has never looked better - but I gotta be frank - I was bored. We spent about 10 minutes walking around M street, bought some stuff at Schine. Really enjoyed walking around campus - but I doubt I’ll ever go back.

My dad, who’s also an alumni - came up all 4 years I was on the hill. He loved the energy and fun of M Street and of course Gameday. Maybe I’m looking at things as an old guy who thinks the old days were better.

Perhaps if the team recaptures SOME of the glory we enjoyed from ‘87-91 things will perk up a bit. Really hope so.

I walked around last month as well and really enjoyed seeing some of the changes being made. The essence of college to me will always be trudging through slush and snow to the little coffee place in the basement of Hendricks Chapel before morning classes.

 

[Bayside44]

I walked around last month as well and really enjoyed seeing some of the changes being made. The essence of college to me will always be trudging through slush and snow to the little coffee place in the basement of Hendricks Chapel before morning classes.

That place had a sneaky good bagel.

 

[NJCuse97]

I think some of you are a bit hard on the Cuse. I was downtown in the rain yesterday. We had a great time visiting The Erie Canal Museum and having lunch at Kitty Hoynes. The Kilkenny Irish Cream Ale was fabulous...kinda the anti-IPA. We stopped by The Salt City Market for dessert. Our Rochester friends commented on how Syracuse's downtown is much more vibrant than Rahchester's.

Syracuse is so much more than Marshall Street.

I think downtown is improved, especially from my early days on the hill. Marshall Street has fallen quite a bit in that same time. My main point was not about pubs or ice cream, it was about a diverse and higher value economy. No SU grad will stay in Syracuse unless there is real opportunity for them. That means a startup community with growth opportunities, research programs that continue to engage and support those startups, $50-$60k starting salaries, and larger industries to invest in or buy those startups. Carrier, Ford, BMS are not there like they were and even when they were, it was more manufacturing jobs than R&D or leadership positions. There is nothing wrong with manufacturing jobs, but it isn’t going to keep new college graduates around.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Poverty rate in Cuse is 32% with a median income of $35k. Bottom 10 in the country. Greenville County SC is at a modest $60k median income. 10% poverty. When football is a religion, and there is a chance for disposable income? Great environment to build a winning program.

Tuscaloosa county AL has a median income of $53k. We lack both the religion and the $$.

Ehhhh you’re not taking into account 60% of the county population that lives in the suburbs here so that number is skewed, but football isn’t going to be a favorite here with the locals as much as people try. It’s a basketball town.

 

[TexanMark]

Ehhhh you’re not taking into account 60% of the county population that lives in the suburbs here so that number is skewed, but football isn’t going to be a favorite here with the locals as much as people try. It’s a basketball town.

Yes, I noticed the stats that were used unfairly too.

Gotta compare apples to apples.

 

[RandomGuy]

Ehhhh you’re not taking into account 60% of the county population that lives in the suburbs here so that number is skewed, but football isn’t going to be a favorite here with the locals as much as people try. It’s a basketball town.

How was it from mid 80's - 2000?

I grew up 6 hours away. Playing pickup games of football and hoops, there was often a kid, in his best announcer voice, that would yell, " and the Orangemen score!" I didn't even know what or where Syracuse was. I just knew the Orangemen were good.

 

[Cusefan0307]

How was it from 87-2000?

Still a basketball town even though football was successful.