Substitution Rule

[shandeezy7]

Does anyone know what the heck was going on today? I thought you only had to allow the defense time to substitute if the offense substituted? Why were we continually delayed by the refs from snapping the ball? Was there a rule change recently?

 

[dasher]

Does anyone know what the heck was going on today? I thought you only had to allow the defense time to substitute if the offense substituted? Why were we continually delayed by the refs from snapping the ball? Was there a rule change recently?

I'm with you. That is what I thought the rule was.

 

[TheHaze315]

Does anyone know what the heck was going on today? I thought you only had to allow the defense time to substitute if the offense substituted? Why were we continually delayed by the refs from snapping the ball? Was there a rule change recently?

No idea, a lot of us were asking that earlier. We all thought the same.

 

[PhatOrange]

I saw sub screwups in the Pitt game and OSU/ND game tonight so I’m not sure what’s going on.

 

[shandeezy7]

I'm with you. That is what I thought the rule was.

We’ve run hurry up every game this year and that’s the first time it’s happened. Very odd. And you’d think our coaching staff would’ve been crushing the refs if it was being done in error.

 

[CuseCrew08]

From the TV I had to assume we substituted giving them the ability to also, and they took their sweet time. Were we not substituting and they still allowed them to sub?

 

[buckets30]

This really bothered me throughout the game; I was at the dome and started paying close attention to the cuse skill players in the game after a few of these stoppages. It seemed like Army was getting a chance to sub even with no personnel changes.

Supposedly if a play ends with a ball carrier going out of bounds, the defense gets a free chance to sub if they want. Maybe it counts as "subbing" since they have to run back on to the field? I have never seen a team take advantage of it like that before, and had never heard of that rule before.

 

[richmondcuse03]

From the TV I had to assume we substituted giving them the ability to also, and they took their sweet time. Were we not substituting and they still allowed them to sub?

I suspect we quick subbed and they just took a lot longer. We’re good at getting guys in and out fast and fans probably didn’t even notice.

 

[All4SU]

There was at least one instance where we lined up, they got their sub on, and then the ref them run another sub on.

 

[shandeezy7]

I suspect we quick subbed and they just took a lot longer. We’re good at getting guys in and out fast and fans probably didn’t even notice.

Even if that were the case, there’s a time limit for how long they can take to get subs in, right? You don’t get an indefinite amount of time to make a sub, which is what it seemed like the refs were granting.

 

[tino]

Why was the ref standing infront of Shrader talking to him when we were trying to keep a fast paced offense going...it seemed everytime ee had momentum

 

[AZOrange]

Why was the ref standing infront of Shrader talking to him when we were trying to keep a fast paced offense going...it seemed everytime ee had momentum

Subs

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

What seemed off to me was that while I know the D is allowed to match an offensive sub, the sub thing was just strange because

a) It appeared on at least one occasion Army was allowed to sub in at times Syracuse didn't and

b) I've never seen a team be allowed to send their team to the line of scrimmage...THEN have a replacement defender just trot onto the field like they are on a sunday stroll... and then NOT have the player they are replacing even move until that player gets to the LOS and only THEN the other guy trots off the field. Usually players move at the same time. This meant every sub took twice as long if not longer. Ive always interpreted the rule as the D needs an opportunity to sub, not for the team to lacksadaisically take 25 seconds to make one sub.

 

[kuethstheman]

What seemed off to me was that while I know the D is allowed to match an offensive sub, the sub thing was just strange because

a) It appeared on at least one occasion Army was allowed to sub in at times Syracuse didn't and

b) I've never seen a team be allowed to send their team to the line of scrimmage...THEN have a replacement defender just trot onto the field like they are on a sunday stroll... and then NOT have the player they are replacing even move until that player gets to the LOS and only THEN the other guy trots off the field. Usually players move at the same time. This meant every sub took twice as long if not longer. Ive always interpreted the rule as the D needs an opportunity to sub, not for the team to lacksadaisically take 25 seconds to make one sub.

I thought there was a specific amount of time they were supposed to wait after the offensive substitution, without regard of how urgently or not the opposing team responded.

 

[NYfan]

The wording of the rule is

When Team A sends in its substitutes, the officials will not allow the ball to be snapped until Team B has been given an opportunity to substitute. While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.

Those of us watching TV had no idea if Team A (Syracuse) had sent in subs because of camera angle and completely uninformative broadcasters.

 

[All4SU]

I understand the D gets an equal chance to sub. But once the O steps up to the line, the D shouldn’t get ANOTHER chance to send an another sub on. And I saw that twice yesterday.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The bigger question is why were we subbing and trying to go fast knowing that it isn't allowed?

 

[upperdeck]

the camera work made it hard to tell if were subbing or not, but teams have learned that if you swap a guy take your time putting a sub out there.

 

[orangeinohio]

As of the rule change in 2014, defenses are allowed to substitute within the first 10 seconds of the 40 second play clock, with the exception of the final two minutes of each half.
I’m not sure if this was really enforced yesterday. It doesn’t seem like a rule that refs are going to pay close attention to unless a team is egregiously breaking.

 

[shandeezy7]

As of the rule change in 2014, defenses are allowed to substitute within the first 10 seconds of the 40 second play clock, with the exception of the final two minutes of each half.
I’m not sure if this was really enforced yesterday. It doesn’t seem like a rule that refs are going to pay close attention to unless a team is egregiously breaking.

Did that rule actually go into effect? Everything I can find says that it was proposed but never actually voted on to be enacted.

https://x.com/brett_mcmurphy/status/441298764578291712?s=46&t=EZ42ZgrxoOxWTKr8gpYq3w

 

[orangeinohio]

Did that rule actually go into effect? Everything I can find says that it was proposed but never actually voted on to be enacted.

https://x.com/brett_mcmurphy/status/441298764578291712?s=46&t=EZ42ZgrxoOxWTKr8gpYq3w

My post was based on this:

Football Rules Committee slightly adjusts targeting rule, defensive substitutions

The NCAA Football Rules Committee proposed an alteration involving the instant-replay review on targeting fouls as well as a rules change allowing defensive units

www.ncaa.org

But now that I’m looking at it again, this is described as a proposal.
This should be easier to answer.

Apologies for the potential fake news.

 

[dollarbill44]

What seemed off to me was that while I know the D is allowed to match an offensive sub, the sub thing was just strange because

a) It appeared on at least one occasion Army was allowed to sub in at times Syracuse didn't and

b) I've never seen a team be allowed to send their team to the line of scrimmage...THEN have a replacement defender just trot onto the field like they are on a sunday stroll... and then NOT have the player they are replacing even move until that player gets to the LOS and only THEN the other guy trots off the field. Usually players move at the same time. This meant every sub took twice as long if not longer. Ive always interpreted the rule as the D needs an opportunity to sub, not for the team to lacksadaisically take 25 seconds to make one sub.

And :25 of our play clock.

 

[Toga]

Just wait until this results in a delay of game because the play clock ran out.

 

[NYfan]

The wording I posted above is from the 2023 NCAA football rules book.

 

[TheCusian]

The bigger question is why were we subbing and trying to go fast knowing that it isn't allowed?

It’s not disallowed. You can go as fast as the refs let you. If Army is saying “we get to sub” then they hold the play up. The bigger question is in fact if they allowed Army to take more than a reasonable amount of time or held the play up when we didn’t sub at all.