Suprised Goodman's mock draft hasn't received any comments

[TBCuse11]

If you don't think Steph Curry is elite right now in the playoffs I am not sure what you are watching. He had an off game last night, but other than that he has been elite this entire series. Give me Steph Curry on my team anyday. His shooting and passing alone make him elite. He's a better version of Steve Nash. Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul are about the only pg's ahead of him imo and its pretty close between those three.

Curry will never be half as good as Nash was in his prime. What a silly comparison.

 

[Knicks411]

Lol! I watch more nba than anyone on this board and you are wrong if you compare the game to anytime in its history its "all" 3s and dunks its just where the game is going.

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Yeah teams have realized those are the most efficient shots on the court.

As for the Curry thing; I dunno, I think there is a good argument he may be the greatest shooter of all time. To take the amount of 3's he does off the dribble and to shoot a % like he does is ridiculous.

 

[Gabjon]

Curry will never be half as good as Nash was in his prime. What a silly comparison.

How do you know that?

 

[jekelish]

Curry is already the GOAT shooter, he doesn't need to be stronger

That's maybe overstating it a bit, and I've been a Steph Curry fan for years (came thiiiiiiiiiiis close to ordering a Davidson 30 jersey when he was there). He's a phenomenal shooter, but greatest of all-time? Not quite sure about that one.

And yeah, the bench is meaningless. Almost as meaningless as the 40 in the NFL (considering, really, when does ANYONE run 40 yards in the NFL?).

 

[Gabjon]

Yeah teams have realized those are the most efficient shots on the court.

As for the Curry thing; I dunno, I think there is a good argument he may be the greatest shooter of all time. To take the amount of 3's he does off the dribble and to shoot a % like he does is ridiculous.

The Knicks and Golden State broke the NBA record for made 3s in a season this year. And 99% of James' 3s would have been behind the NBA line too.

 

[Andpuppets]

Steph curry is something like 2nd in career three point percentage. And its not because he doesn't take a lot of them because he just broke tue record for made threes in a season.

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[Knicks411]

That's maybe overstating it a bit, and I've been a Steph Curry fan for years (came thiiiiiiiiiiis close to ordering a Davidson 30 jersey when he was there). He's a phenomenal shooter, but greatest of all-time? Not quite sure about that one.

Kevin Pelton explored the topic a little bit and came down saying it might very well be Curry.

The problem is comparing a guy who has been in the league for a few years to guys with total careers. But just as a point of comparison, Curry has been in the league 4 years. His worst 3pt% for a season is 43.7%, which he shot as a rookie. Reggie Miller, who I think most people would consider a pretty great shooter, has a career high 3pt% of 42.9%.

So basically, the worst Steph Curry season so far, has been more accurate than the best Reggie Miller season from 3. He also takes a massive amount of threes, and a lot of them come off the dribble, as opposed to catch and shoot, which usually result in a higher %.

The best comp might be Nash, who has a similar percentage from 3, but he doesn't take nearly the volume that Curry does.

So I agree it's hard on some level to crown a kid who is 24 years old as the GOAT when it comes to shooting, but then again, there is a really compelling case

 

[djcon57]

If you don't think Steph Curry is elite right now in the playoffs I am not sure what you are watching. He had an off game last night, but other than that he has been elite this entire series. Give me Steph Curry on my team anyday. His shooting and passing alone make him elite. He's a better version of Steve Nash. Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul are about the only pg's ahead of him imo and its pretty close between those three.

Tony Parker better, right now. (...and I hate Tony Parker's face)

Curry is the man, no disrespect. But I'd love to see Spurs/Warriors. I think Parker takes on the challenge.

 

[moqui]

If bench press meant anything Paul Harris would be starting in the NBA.

you mean, if the bench press meant everything, then Harris would be in the NBA.

Nobody ever claimed it meant everything. But it means something, or else they wouldn't include it. It's a piece of information - for example, it can be a clear indicator of how underdeveloped a body is physically (which can actually be either a good or bad thing), or how dedicated a player is to getting stronger, etc. Durant, for example, was an 18 year old kid when he went through the combine, and one would expect his body to mature rapidly in the next two to three years. MCW is a 21 (soon to be 22) year old man, and his various measures will tell a somewhat different story than they will for a teenager.

 

[Gabjon]

you mean, if the bench press meant everything, then Harris would be in the NBA.

Nobody ever claimed it meant everything. But it means something, or else they wouldn't include it. It's a piece of information - for example, it can be a clear indicator of how underdeveloped a body is physically (which can actually be either a good or bad thing), or how dedicated a player is to getting stronger, etc. Durant, for example, was an 18 year old kid when he went through the combine, and one would expect his body to mature rapidly in the next two to three years. MCW is a 21 (soon to be 22) year old man, and his various measures will tell a somewhat different story than they will for a teenager.

It means nothing for guards and very little for everyone else most players don't even do the bench press. See attached link Draftexpress Everyone with N/A didn't do the bench press.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Curry can be better than Nash, he might be right now. He's a much better scorer than Nash ever was and can carry a team more than Nash can IMO.

As far as MCW goes, I said it in the beginning of the year and I will say it again. I think his NBA ceiling and comparisn is Rajon Rondo.

 

[Knicks411]

Curry can be better than Nash, he might be right now. He's a much better scorer than Nash ever was and can carry a team more than Nash can IMO.

I agree, Nash is and was an incredible offensive player, but he was a bad defensive player. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to think Curry can be better than Nash.

 

[Scotiacuse]

Curry can be better than Nash, he might be right now. He's a much better scorer than Nash ever was and can carry a team more than Nash can IMO.

I think Nash was a better scorer than people realize. He didn't need to score most of the time and just took open shots. I remember a playoff game against Dallas in 2005 when he went 20-28 and had 48 points - Dallas said they wanted to make him score to keep others from getting involved. Dallas did win the game, but I thought it was strange that they considered their strategy successful. In that series, Nash averaged 30 points, 6 rebounds and 12 assists.

 

[Melancer46]

Nash 5-10 years ago of course. Today Nash is a shell of himself. Its sad watching him play now...

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I honestly wonder how much of it is him regressing versus just playing next to a guy like Kobe that dominates the ball. Nash shot the ball as well as he ever has this year, put up the same points per game, the difference is that he wasn't put in a position to work the pick and roll the way he has basically every other year of his career. And obviously the health issues really started to take their toll this year.

It's going to be sad when he finally retires. He and Jason Kidd were my two favorite point guards to watch growing up once John Stockton retired. The guy that trained Nash on how to shoot gave me a private lesson a few years ago too, so people say that I play a lot like him (obviously not nearly as good though lol), and it isn't by accident. I tried to model my game after him with his shooting and passing ability.

 

[Knicks411]

The drop in assist rate for Nash is staggering and has to mainly be indicative of the role he played in the offense. He went from assisting on over half the field goals his teammates scored while he was on the court the last three years to one third this year. No way his playmaking skills declined that much in a year.

And he still had a ridiculous true shooting, over 60%

 

[Melancer46]

Curry can be better than Nash, he might be right now. He's a much better scorer than Nash ever was and can carry a team more than Nash can IMO.

Could Curry end up being better than prime Nash at some point? Sure. But the rest of this is just incorrect. TS% and eFG point to Nash as being the better shooter from a statistical standpoint, so in the very least, if Curry is a better shooter, it's not by much. I actually don't think Curry is a better scorer than Nash was. He puts up more points per game because he isn't as good a passer, but statistically, Nash is one of the best shooters in the league from literally every spot on the floor, whereas Curry is only great from the perimeter and maybe the 16-23 foot range. Nash had a tighter handle, was better at getting into the lane, was a better finisher, and was more creative in his scoring.

And yeah... Nash has already proven time and time again that he can carry a team. He's taken teams that had pretty good talent to being top 3 seeds in the West, taken teams that were below average to the playoffs, and came very close to winning 3 MVPs in a row. To question his ability to carry a team is asinine.

 

[Gabjon]

I honestly wonder how much of it is him regressing versus just playing next to a guy like Kobe that dominates the ball. Nash shot the ball as well as he ever has this year, put up the same points per game, the difference is that he wasn't put in a position to work the pick and roll the way he has basically every other year of his career. And obviously the health issues really started to take their toll this year.

It's going to be sad when he finally retires. He and Jason Kidd were my two favorite point guards to watch growing up once John Stockton retired. The guy that trained Nash on how to shoot gave me a private lesson a few years ago too, so people say that I play a lot like him (obviously not nearly as good though lol), and it isn't by accident. I tried to model my game after him with his shooting and passing ability.

He is 39. He was kicked in the shin and his leg broke...that happens at 39. He has a bad back it's over for him. He will be 60 and still be able to shoot, but he can't play anymore.

 

[Knicks411]

Could Curry end up being better than prime Nash at some point? Sure. But the rest of this is just incorrect. TS% and eFG point to Nash as being the better shooter from a statistical standpoint, so in the very least, if Curry is a better shooter, it's not by much.

That's true, but I think you also need to lock at shot volume. Curry made 45% of his 3's this year, and took 600 of them. Nash never took more than 380 in a season.

Hollinger did a study on the best shotoer ever a year ago or so; he ended up deciding on Nash. He's definitely up there, but I think the number of threes that curry takes is just so ridiculous.

And yeah... Nash has already proven time and time again that he can carry a team. He's taken teams that had pretty good talent to being top 3 seeds in the West, taken teams that were below average to the playoffs, and came very close to winning 3 MVPs in a row.

I think Nash is awesome, and for about 8 years just having him on your team meant you had a top 1 or 2 offense, but we can admit that the MVP's weren't legit, right?

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree, Nash is and was an incredible offensive player, but he was a bad defensive player. I don't think it's ridiculous at all to think Curry can be better than Nash.

People continue to ignore defense. Nash was/is/forever will be terrible on defense. Didn't help having Mike D as his coach.

I love Nash. I think he's exciting. I think his ability to see the pass and execute passes ahead of everyone else is amazing. His awareness on offense is off the charts. Or at least it was.

But in no way should he be elevated to historically elite because he never won a title or titles, which would have offset his terrible defense.

 

[Melancer46]

That's true, but I think you also need to lock at shot volume. Curry made 45% of his 3's this year, and took 600 of them. Nash never took more than 380 in a season.

Hollinger did a study on the best shotoer ever a year ago or so; he ended up deciding on Nash. He's definitely up there, but I think the number of threes that curry takes is just so ridiculous.



I think Nash is awesome, and for about 8 years just having him on your team meant you had a top 1 or 2 offense, but we can admit that the MVP's weren't legit, right?

In regards to the first part, there's more to being a great shooter than being a great 3 point shooter. Nash has Curry beat in every other area of the floor while being very close in terms of 3 point shooting.

In regards to the MVPs, I don't think Nash was ever the best player in the league, but I think he's been one of the most valuable players of the past decade. As you said, put him on any team regardless of how bad they are and you have the #1 or 2 offense in the league. To me, that makes him one of the most valuable players in the league in his prime. I get it that an MVP isn't as legit if it's like the NBA giving it to Malone just because they were tired of giving it to MJ, but Nash finished #1 or 2 three years in a row. Whether or not he should have actually won them is debatable, but his ability to carry a team and his status as one of the most valuable players at that time isn't.

 

[Melancer46]

People continue to ignore defense. Nash was/is/forever will be terrible on defense. Didn't help having Mike D as his coach.

I love Nash. I think he's exciting. I think his ability to see the pass and execute passes ahead of everyone else is amazing. His awareness on offense is off the charts. Or at least it was.

But in no way should he be elevated to historically elite because he never won a title or titles, which would have offset his terrible defense.

For comparisons sake, Curry and Kyrie Irving are only slightly better defensively than Nash was.

But Nash might have been the best offensive PG of all time. That counts for something as far as his eliteness goes historically.

 

[djcon57]

But in no way should he be elevated to historically elite because he never won a title or titles, which would have offset his terrible defense.

Or even getting to the finals would have been nice

Also, I have no beef w/ Nash's 2005 MVP.

 

[djcon57]

For comparisons sake, Curry and Kyrie Irving are only slightly better defensively than Nash was.

But Nash might have been the best offensive PG of all time. That counts for something as far as his eliteness goes historically.

Isiah better

 

[Melancer46]

Isiah better

Highly debatable

 

[Knicks411]

In regards to the first part, there's more to being a great shooter than being a great 3 point shooter. Nash has Curry beat in every other area of the floor while being very close in terms of 3 point shooting.

You're right, I'm using that as a short hand and maybe it's not fair. They are about the same from the foul line, FWIW.

I don't want to come off as knocking Nash, he's a reasonable choice for best shooter ever and I agree he is probably the best offensive PG ever. But I can't see the MVP's.