SU's schedule compared to other top teams

[Gonzo]

Kentucky's first real road game so far came against then unranked Indiana. As far as the rest of Kentucky's schedule is concerned it hosts Louisville (#4), Alabama (#21), Florida (#13), and Vandy (#25) while playing at Florida, Miss. St (#16) and Vandy.

Ohio State's only real road game so far came against Kansas. As far as the rest of Ohio State's schedule is concerned, it doesnt play another team currently ranked in the top 10. It will play nine games, 5 away and 4 home, against other Big Ten teams currently ranked between #15 and "23.

UNC's only real road game so far came against Kentucky. Its only remaining games against a currently ranked opponent involve a home and away versus Duke.

Duke's only road game so far came against Ohio State and got killed. Its only remaining games against a currently ranked opponent involve a home and away versus UNC.

Syracuse has not had a true road game yet and its first is only against a 6-3 N.C. State team. But it does face four games against Top 10 teams (#4 Louisville and #10 UConn twice), a fifth at home versus #11 Marquette, a sixth home against #14 Pitt, and a seventh home versus #17 G-Town.

Now I wish SU had scheduled a tougher non-league game against a tougher opponent than NC State given all the talent we have back from last year. And our offense certainly has not been playing like the top rated team in the country (though our defense has). But I doubt in any of the whiners like Seth Davis, Rick Bozich and others will bring up the comparatively easier schedules that the other top teams, most notably UNC and Duke face, from here on out.

 

[Knicks411]

Why do people have to be whiners because they didn't rank SU where you wanted them to?

There are reasonable arguments that SU shouldn't be the best team in the country. There are reasonable arguments that SU is the best team in the country. Just because someone is on the other side of the argument, I don't see how it makes them a whiner.

And yes, we likely have a tougher schedule from here on out. But it's also true that a large part of the reason we're undefeated is we haven't played a lot of tough teams, and we've played only one team that could reasonably be described as elite.

But if we finish the regular season with say, 2 losses, I don't think anyone is going to be saying we shouldn't be ranked #1.

 

[bnoro]

Why do people have to be whiners because they didn't rank SU where you wanted them to?

There are reasonable arguments that SU shouldn't be the best team in the country. There are reasonable arguments that SU is the best team in the country. Just because someone is on the other side of the argument, I don't see how it makes them a whiner.

And yes, we likely have a tougher schedule from here on out. But it's also true that a large part of the reason we're undefeated is we haven't played a lot of tough teams, and we've played only one team that could reasonably be described as elite.

But if we finish the regular season with say, 2 losses, I don't think anyone is going to be saying we shouldn't be ranked #1.

Because if you switch us and Kentucky just by name, and they get elevated to #1, you don't see any of the flak we got for moving up today about "unranked teams" and "road games".

 

[Knicks411]

Because if you switch us and Kentucky just by name, and they get elevated to #1, you don't see any of the flak we got for moving up today about "unranked teams" and "road games".

I guess there is no way to prove that. I'm sure there would be some people saying that, because as hard as it may be to believe, not everyone in the media hates SU. Though it also is fair that they may be looking for it more out of SU, because we have the reputation for not scheduling that tough.

 

[SkanSU]

As I recall I believe that our SOS is around 14 ... above OSU

 

[Upstate]

As I recall I believe that our SOS is around 14 ... above OSU

realtimerpi.com has us at #14 SOS. It will only go up, as we play better teams and the teams we have beaten do well in their conferences. FLA may win SEC. Marshall CUSA, too.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Kentucky's first real road game so far came against then unranked Indiana. As far as the rest of Kentucky's schedule is concerned it hosts Louisville (#4), Alabama (#21), Florida (#13), and Vandy (#25) while playing at Florida, Miss. St (#16) and Vandy.

Ohio State's only real road game so far came against Kansas. As far as the rest of Ohio State's schedule is concerned, it doesn't play another team currently ranked in the top 10. It will play nine games, 5 away and 4 home, against other Big Ten teams currently ranked between #15 and "23.

UNC's only real road game so far came against Kentucky. Its only remaining games against a currently ranked opponent involve a home and away versus Duke.

Duke's only road game so far came against Ohio State and got killed. Its only remaining games against a currently ranked opponent involve a home and away versus UNC.

Syracuse has not had a true road game yet and its first is only against a 6-3 N.C. State team. But it does face four games against Top 10 teams (#4 Louisville and #10 UConn twice), a fifth at home versus #11 Marquette, a sixth home against #14 Pitt, and a seventh home versus #17 G-Town.

Now I wish SU had scheduled a tougher non-league game against a tougher opponent than NC State given all the talent we have back from last year. And our offense certainly has not been playing like the top rated team in the country (though our defense has). But I doubt in any of the whiners like Seth Davis, Rick Bozich and others will bring up the comparatively easier schedules that the other top teams, most notably UNC and Duke face, from here on out.

Forget "RANKED" & "UNRANKED" as well as "HOME" & "AWAY" - Kentucky has played FIVE (5) teams from BCS conferences with a sixth up soon. So far they've played Kansas, North Carolina, St. Johns, Penn State and and at Indiana. You cannot compare the SOS of them versus Cuse... They've gone down a much tougher road than SU (to date) and still have Louisville coming up. That's a total of SIX non-conf games against BCS teams - with three of those games against title contenders.

Ohio State beat Florida at home (just like Cuse) but they ALSO crushed Duke (at home), lost to Kansas (away) and have South Carolina (home) coming up. That's three legitimate title contenders plus a mid-level BCS team.

Again the "ROAD" & "AWAY" thing with North Carolina. Michigan State (neutral), Kentucky (away), Wisconsin (home), South Carolina, UNLV, and Texas next week is again WAY tougher than any non-conf scheduling Cuse has done in the PAST DECADE. That's FOUR top-tier BCS schools, plus a mid-tier program in SC and a very tough UNLV squad.

Duke played Michigan St. on a neutral floor, Tennessee on a neutral floor, Michigan on a neutral floor, Kansas on a neutral floor, got waxed at Ohio State, beat Washington on a neutral floor, and still have Temple as well as St. Johns coming up. To compare their schedule to Syracuse's is silly.

While we're at it, let's look at Kansas. They've already played three title contenders themselves. Georgetown (neutral), Duke (neutral), and Ohio State (home). Plus they played a very mediocre UCLA (neutral) and still have @USC and home for Notre Dame.

Sure Syracuse plays a tough conference schedule. There's no denying that. But the Non-Conf is brutal. Not sure how anyone can say Florida (home), V-Tech (neutral), Stanford (neutral) and NC State (away) stacks up to any of the schedules above - And say it with a straight face.

And before you give me the "Well, the Big East is so strong, BS... please note that Georgetown played or will play Memphis (twice), Kansas, & Alabama while Notre Dame plays or will play Mizzou, Georgia, Maryland, Gonzaga, and Indiana.

Syracuse schedules weak.

Stop making excuses and trying to justify it.

Simply accept it and move on.

 

[zhanjuzi]

I would trade this early untested #1 stuff for a beat down on Pitt anyday! Jeez if we get spanked by them again this year I swear I'll go off the deep-end.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Georgetown is a title contender?

In general I agree that JB tends to shy away from big time matchups in the non-conference. To me it is understandable for three reasons: #1 the Big East has been so brutal over the past few years that you don't need top quality opponents in the non-con to ensure your team is tested, and #2 you need the wins in the non-con to offset the invariable 4 to 7 losses a very good team could suffer in conference. The #3 reason is spelled out in the original post, yes Duke, OSU, and Kentucky all played tough non-conference road games. But they all lost those games. So what is the point of losing road games to good/great teams? Regardless of how you may view this, JB sees it as bolstering his opinion that those games have no merit.

The shocking and disturbing part of all this (or maybe exciting depending on how you look at it): UNC and Duke have 2 conference games against ranked opponents - each other. That is just disgusting, looking at what we are leaving and what we are going to. Syracuse will invariably have to play several more of these bigtime non-conference matchups once we move to the ACC because the conference is so weak that the RPI and SOS numbers needed for top seedings just can't be had with conference wins alone. So you may be excited that we may try to play some bigger non-con games or depressed that the entire conference season will be slugging through garbage, with a very rare game against Duke or UNC thrown in every couple years.

 

[Knicks411]

The shocking and disturbing part of all this (or maybe exciting depending on how you look at it): UNC and Duke have 2 conference games against ranked opponents - each other. That is just disgusting, looking at what we are leaving and what we are going to. Syracuse will invariably have to play several more of these bigtime non-conference matchups once we move to the ACC because the conference is so weak that the RPI and SOS numbers needed for top seedings just can't be had with conference wins alone. So you may be excited that we may try to play some bigger non-con games or depressed that the entire conference season will be slugging through garbage, with a very rare game against Duke or UNC thrown in every couple years.

It's impossible to tell how things are going to be in 3-5 years or whatever, but assuming you're right, I think I like it better.

I think we can wear down a bit int he meat grinder of the BE season.

 

[CorduroyG]

Forget "RANKED" & "UNRANKED" as well as "HOME" & "AWAY" - Kentucky has played FIVE (5) teams from BCS conferences with a sixth up soon. So far they've played Kansas, North Carolina, St. Johns, Penn State and and at Indiana. You cannot compare the SOS of them versus Cuse... They've gone down a much tougher road than SU (to date) and still have Louisville coming up. That's a total of SIX non-conf games against BCS teams - with three of those games against title contenders.

Ohio State beat Florida at home (just like Cuse) but they ALSO crushed Duke (at home), lost to Kansas (away) and have South Carolina (home) coming up. That's three legitimate title contenders plus a mid-level BCS team.

Again the "ROAD" & "AWAY" thing with North Carolina. Michigan State (neutral), Kentucky (away), Wisconsin (home), South Carolina, UNLV, and Texas next week is again WAY tougher than any non-conf scheduling Cuse has done in the PAST DECADE. That's FOUR top-tier BCS schools, plus a mid-tier program in SC and a very tough UNLV squad.

Duke played Michigan St. on a neutral floor, Tennessee on a neutral floor, Michigan on a neutral floor, Kansas on a neutral floor, got waxed at Ohio State, beat Washington on a neutral floor, and still have Temple as well as St. Johns coming up. To compare their schedule to Syracuse's is silly.

While we're at it, let's look at Kansas. They've already played three title contenders themselves. Georgetown (neutral), Duke (neutral), and Ohio State (home). Plus they played a very mediocre UCLA (neutral) and still have @USC and home for Notre Dame.

Sure Syracuse plays a tough conference schedule. There's no denying that. But the Non-Conf is brutal. Not sure how anyone can say Florida (home), V-Tech (neutral), Stanford (neutral) and NC State (away) stacks up to any of the schedules above - And say it with a straight face.

And before you give me the "Well, the Big East is so strong, BS... please note that Georgetown played or will play Memphis (twice), Kansas, & Alabama while Notre Dame plays or will play Mizzou, Georgia, Maryland, Gonzaga, and Indiana.

Syracuse schedules weak.

Stop making excuses and trying to justify it.

Simply accept it and move on.

So right now why do we have a better rpi and SOS than all those teams except duke?

 

[bnoro]

Forget "RANKED" & "UNRANKED" as well as "HOME" & "AWAY" - Kentucky has played FIVE (5) teams from BCS conferences with a sixth up soon. So far they've played Kansas, North Carolina, St. Johns, Penn State and and at Indiana. You cannot compare the SOS of them versus Cuse... They've gone down a much tougher road than SU (to date) and still have Louisville coming up. That's a total of SIX non-conf games against BCS teams - with three of those games against title contenders.

Marshall is a better team than both Penn State and St. Johns. To talk about scheduling "BCS conference" teams in basketball is stupid, would you discount a team that beats Murray State, even though they are top 25 since they are not "BCS"?

 

[SkanSU]

So right now why do we have a better rpi and SOS than all those teams except duke?

generally ... yes. We are ahead of OSU in both RPI and SOS and Kentucky in RPI

 

[SkanSU]

Name does not equal good or great team ... there are many mid-majors that can whip the crap out of a lot of the big schools ... Marshall, Creighton, George Mason, Cleveland St., Murray State ... yes, and Tulane. Don't denigrate the mid-majors ... what was the name of that team? ... oh, yes, Butler.

 

[Knicks411]

I think it's partially because the bad teams we're playing are better than the bad teams those guys are playing, which doesn't necessarily do a whole lot for me.

Also, I think SOS is just opponents winning%. So it says that if you played Murray State and I played UNC or Kentucky or Duke, you played a tougher schedule. Doesn't really make sense. I also don't think there is any adjustment for home/road. I know there is for RPI, but is there for SOS? That kind of stuff can even out a little more over the course of 30-35 games, but after 8-10, when it's a lot of cupcakes, not so sure.

The Ken pom rankings have our SOS 244, Ohio State's 237, Kentucky's 83rd, Carolina 14, Duke 6. I'd put more stock in those than something that just goes by straight winning%.

Ohio State has played a pretty brutal schedule, essentially equivalent to us.

 

[SkanSU]

Forget "RANKED" & "UNRANKED" as well as "HOME" & "AWAY" - Kentucky has played FIVE (5) teams from BCS conferences with a sixth up soon. So far they've played Kansas, North Carolina, St. Johns, Penn State and and at Indiana. You cannot compare the SOS of them versus Cuse... They've gone down a much tougher road than SU (to date) and still have Louisville coming up. That's a total of SIX non-conf games against BCS teams - with three of those games against title contenders.

We are not playing football ... by far the "BCS" is pure BS in basketball. I can run a huge list of BCS conference teams that just plain suck ... and 2 have been named: Penn State and St.John's ... in the BE alone ... Rutgers, Providence are much lesser teams than many of the mid-major non-BCS conferences. In the ACC: Clemson? Wake Forest? Georgia Tech (got spanked by Tulane) ... I mean we can go on and on. Because they are in a BCS conference means absolutely nothing. I refer you tosome of the mid-major teams I previously mentioned ...they could take it to most of the teams in any BCS conference. Yoou schedule and play the team ... and whether its BCS or nonBCS you never know from year to year what you will get ... at least from the standpoint of the mid-majors. They have good teams!!

 

[arbitragegls]

...whoa...have you looked at the ESPN Insider RPI...'Cuse at 3 is ahead of all other competitors except Duke..



RK TEAM RPI D1 W-L SOS NCRP NCSS CFRP CFSS 1-25 26-50 51-100 L12 LRPI OFFQ DEFQ ASM
1 Duke .7467 8-1 4 87 6 109 303 0-1 2-0 4-0 8-1 8 12.3 2.5 14.9
2 Saint Mary's .7287 3-1 2 121 2 280 116 1-0 0-1 0-0 3-1 48 -3.2 9.4 6.3
3 Syracuse .7166 9-0 11 83 14 225 154 1-0 1-0 2-0 9-0 2 16.0 12.9 28.9
4 Northern Iowa .6954 8-1 19 90 21 158 246 0-1 1-0 1-0 8-1 21 3.0 9.8 12.7
5 Marquette .6857 8-0 51 65 55 231 227 1-0 3-0 1-0 8-0 20 19.6 9.1 28.7
6 Vanderbilt .6708 6-3 3 190 3 133 184 0-2 2-0 2-1 6-3 11 10.0 0.3 10.3
7 Kentucky .6695 8-0 88 82 93 113 128 1-0 0-0 1-0 8-0 9 16.2 13.5 29.7
8 Creighton .6653 7-0 98 78 106 136 306 0-0 1-0 0-0 7-0 37 20.6 -0.5 20.1
9 Southern Miss .6549 5-2 23 112 25 194 111 0-1 1-1 2-0 5-2 66 7.4 0.4 7.8
10 Ole Miss .6510 7-1 61 97 66 155 142 0-1 1-0 2-0 7-1 13 2.2 8.1 10.4

and according to Pomeroy we are #5...nothing wrong with our schedule...it has been strong...so cut the BS and start realizing that 'Cuse OOC isnt so bad...in fact, its strength is ahead or comparable to all the competitors mentioned: OSU, KY, NC, Duke...so we deserve #1 now and certainly will deserve it as long as we keep winning

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Marshall is a better team than both Penn State and St. Johns. To talk about scheduling "BCS conference" teams in basketball is stupid, would you discount a team that beats Murray State, even though they are top 25 since they are not "BCS"?

I guess you missed the part about THREE games against title contenders.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

So right now why do we have a better rpi and SOS than all those teams except duke?

Because the dreck we've played is, for the most part, better than the dreck they've played.

But at the top, it's no contest.

Please tell me you understood this and were just trying to push buttons... Because to compare RPI's this early in the season is meaningless.

 

[bnoro]

I guess you missed the part about THREE games against title contenders.

No, I saw that part, but your attempt to qualify their schedule as good by talking about Penn State, Indiana, and St. Johns devalued your point. If you didn't pull the BCS garbage it would have been a better taken point.

However, we will play at least FOUR games against title contenders, so pump the brakes on bashing our schedule.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

pump the brakes on bashing our schedule.

He's not "bashing" the schedule. Just playing devil's advocate. And, his post was more objective than those of the apologists.

But, whatever. I'm still unsure why so many people are so gung-ho to defend our schedule. As if they prefer not facing anyone decent until the regular season. You'd all rather not have any December games on 'real tv?' You'd rather have to 'tune in' to All Access to see George Washington while other top 10 teams are playing Elite 8 teams...

Of course, JB always has his rationalizations in-hand. "West Cactus Tech has a lot of seniors. They'll be better later, and probably in the tournament... SW Divisional State was runner-up in its league championship and they shoot the three real well... Colgate knows us so well, so there's no surprises for them... And Calamity has an Equipment Manager who could manage for any team in the Big East."

 

[Knicks411]

and according to Pomeroy we are #5...nothing wrong with our schedule...it has been strong...so cut the BS and start realizing that 'Cuse OOC isnt so bad...in fact, its strength is ahead or comparable to all the competitors mentioned: OSU, KY, NC, Duke...so we deserve #1 now and certainly will deserve it as long as we keep winning

According to Pomeroy, we're the 5th best team. Our schedule is nowhere close to any of those teams except OSU. (According to Pomeroy).

 

[SkanSU]

Excuse me ... Albany ...#1 America East; Tulane ... #1 C-USA; Marshall ... #3 C-USA
Florida ... #12, Stanford expected to win PAC-12; Virginia Tech ... probably 4th best in ACC; NC St. ... probaby 3rd best in ACC

Now where is Calamity, or West Cactus Tech ...in any of these. Brings us back to the argument about just b/c there is a "name" doesn't mean they are a good team. The mid-majors have very good teams and we have played some very good teams. If you can't watch the games ... buy a ticket or get Time Warner or FIOS. There is nothing wrong with our schedule!!

And let's just stop the bullshit about other "top team"schedules:
OSU: Wright state, No.Florida, Jackson State, VMI, Texas Pan-AM, USC-Upstate, Lamar

and someone mentioned Georgetown's stellar schedule? Savannah St., UNC Greensboro, Chaminade, IUPUI, NJIT, Howard, American University ... and the only reason they have had "bigger games" (i.e. Alabama - who I am not impressed with) is b/c they played them in Maui.

 

[sufandu]

...whoa...have you looked at the ESPN Insider RPI...'Cuse at 3 is ahead of all other competitors except Duke..

RK TEAM RPI D1 W-L SOS NCRP NCSS CFRP CFSS 1-25 26-50 51-100 L12 LRPI OFFQ DEFQ ASM
1 Duke .7467 8-1 4 87 6 109 303 0-1 2-0 4-0 8-1 8 12.3 2.5 14.9
2 Saint Mary's .7287 3-1 2 121 2 280 116 1-0 0-1 0-0 3-1 48 -3.2 9.4 6.3
3 Syracuse .7166 9-0 11 83 14 225 154 1-0 1-0 2-0 9-0 2 16.0 12.9 28.9
4 Northern Iowa .6954 8-1 19 90 21 158 246 0-1 1-0 1-0 8-1 21 3.0 9.8 12.7
5 Marquette .6857 8-0 51 65 55 231 227 1-0 3-0 1-0 8-0 20 19.6 9.1 28.7
6 Vanderbilt .6708 6-3 3 190 3 133 184 0-2 2-0 2-1 6-3 11 10.0 0.3 10.3
7 Kentucky .6695 8-0 88 82 93 113 128 1-0 0-0 1-0 8-0 9 16.2 13.5 29.7
8 Creighton .6653 7-0 98 78 106 136 306 0-0 1-0 0-0 7-0 37 20.6 -0.5 20.1
9 Southern Miss .6549 5-2 23 112 25 194 111 0-1 1-1 2-0 5-2 66 7.4 0.4 7.8
10 Ole Miss .6510 7-1 61 97 66 155 142 0-1 1-0 2-0 7-1 13 2.2 8.1 10.4

and according to Pomeroy we are #5...nothing wrong with our schedule...it has been strong...so cut the BS and start realizing that 'Cuse OOC isnt so bad...in fact, its strength is ahead or comparable to all the competitors mentioned: OSU, KY, NC, Duke...so we deserve #1 now and certainly will deserve it as long as we keep winning

I don't claim to completely understand how the RPI is calculated. What I do know is that if RPI means anything, then OSU completely dismantled the best team in the country according to the RPI. Their only loss is to a good team while missing their best player, who may be the best player in the country. I have no problem with us being #1 and I like the attention it brings, but I also have no problem with someone else thinking another team may be better than us because they take things into consideration beyond the numbers. What I like about college basketball is that we can debate this now, and find out who's right at the end of the year based on what happens on the court.

 

[SkanSU]

Nobody said G'Town is a "title contender." I simply used them as an example of a BE school with a more challenging group of Non-Conf games on their schedule.

Where oh where in hell is Georgetown's more challenging group of OOC games? See my above post!!