Sweet game for Dion tonight

[Gabjon]

Lost by 2 but the Cavs only had 11 TOs (Dion with 1) Kyrie averages 4.1 and game.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Yeah, nice showing by the Cavs. Nice building block to show them they are just as good as the big boys when they play well.

 

[br801]

Cavs and Dion are beating up on Lebron and Wade tonight. Step aside, a new King is being crowned. Don't worry Lebron, Dion will be doing this to everyone in the Eastern Conference before long.

But someone should tell the new King he shouldn't be hoisting up 9 3s in a week, let alone in one game. He needs to be attacking the basket and dishing to his teammates.

 

[Gabjon]

Yeah, nice showing by the Cavs. Nice building block to show them they are just as good as the big boys when they play well.

When your PG isn't jacking 20+ shots a game its a plus

 

[Melancer46]

Lost by 2 but the Cavs only had 11 TOs (Dion with 1) Kyrie averages 4.1 and game.

He also averages 2 or 3 times more assists than Waiters had tonight. And he once again shot like crap. Another game where he wasn't scoring effectively and didn't bring anything else to the table either.

 

[Gabjon]

He also averages 2 or 3 times more assists than Waiters had tonight. And he once again shot like crap. Another game where he wasn't scoring effectively and didn't bring anything else to the table either.

Dion the second leading scorer among all NBA rookies. Kyrie's 6 assist to 4 TOs season average is a crappy ratio and the team is clearly playing better without him.

 

[Melancer46]

Dion the second leading scorer among all NBA rookies. Kyrie's 6 assist to 4 TOs season average is a crappy ratio and the team is clearly playing better without him.

1. He's 3rd out of rookies in scoring behind Lillard and Davis.
2. He's shooting 38%. It's great that he's scoring a lot compared to other rookies, but he's also doing it less efficiently than everyone else and tonight was no different.
3. Waiters assist to turnover ratio is barely any better than Kyrie's.
4. The Cavs have sucked with or without Irving.
5. It's been 3 games without Irving. It's hard to point to 3 games and say that they're better off without him, especially when they're 1-2 in that stretch with a loss to the Orlando Magic, a complete collapse against the Heat, and a win over a 76ers team that was so awful for that game that they only scored 83 points against what might be the worst defensive team in the NBA. The 76ers shot 36% in the game for god sake.

Edit: And I'd also argue that Irving turning the ball over isn't really alarming because he's the only player on the team that has proven to be capable of creating for other. He's forced to try to make things happen and force the issue because nobody else on the team is doing anything to help.

 

[Gabjon]

1. He's 3rd out of rookies in scoring behind Lillard and Davis.
2. He's shooting 38%. It's great that he's scoring a lot compared to other rookies, but he's also doing it less efficiently than everyone else and tonight was no different.
3. Waiters assist to turnover ratio is barely any better than Kyrie's.
4. The Cavs have sucked with or without Irving.
5. It's been 3 games without Irving. It's hard to point to 3 games and say that they're better off without him, especially when they're 1-2 in that stretch with a loss to the Orlando Magic, a complete collapse against the Heat, and a win over a 76ers team that was so awful for that game that they only scored 83 points against what might be the worst defensive team in the NBA. The 76ers shot 36% in the game for god sake.

Edit: And I'd also argue that Irving turning the ball over isn't really alarming because he's the only player on the team that has proven to be capable of creating for other. He's forced to try to make things happen and force the issue because nobody else on the team is doing anything to help.

When you are averaging 5.6 assist and you are taking 17.7 shots a game (most on the team) you are not creating for anyone but yourself! Kyrie can play but he is a shoot first point guard those guys don't win, and if he is going to shot that much play him off the ball.

 

[Melancer46]

When you are averaging 5.6 assist and you are taking 17.7 shots a game (most on the team) you are not creating for anyone but yourself! Kyrie can play but he is a shoot first point guard those guys don't win, and if he is going to shot that much play him off the ball.

Who would you rather have shoot the ball on this Cavaliers team? Irving is an elite scorer, but he's also the only one that can really create for anyone else. He needs the ball in his hands for Cleveland to have a chance. It's the same way with other scoring PGs like Rose and Westbrook. Who should be the primary ball-handler in Cleveland if you're going to just have Irving work off the ball from now on? The guy that's #2 on the team in assists is ANDERSON VAREJAO.

 

[Gabjon]

Who would you rather have shoot the ball on this Cavaliers team? Irving is an elite scorer, but he's also the only one that can really create for anyone else. He needs the ball in his hands for Cleveland to have a chance. It's the same way with other scoring PGs like Rose and Westbrook. Who should be the primary ball-handler in Cleveland if you're going to just have Irving work off the ball from now on? The guy that's #2 on the team in assists is ANDERSON VAREJAO.

He is no Rose (last year 7.9 assist/ 3 TOs per game) or Westbrook (8.4 assist/3TOs per game)! Pargo is a better PG. Kyrie does not move the ball he pounds and goes one to one too much he is a SG in a PGs body!

 

[Melancer46]

He is no Rose (last year 7.9 assist/ 3 TOs per game) or Westbrook (8.4 assist/3TOs per game)! Pargo is a better PG. Kyrie does not move the ball he pounds and goes one to one too much he is a SG in a PGs body!

Rose and Westbrook are also veterans and have far more talent to work with. Nobody on Cleveland's team really moves the ball. Byron Scott's offense is one on one for the guards and sometimes a pick and roll. They don't even have an offensive system.

 

[Gabjon]

Rose and Westbrook are also veterans and have far more talent to work with. Nobody on Cleveland's team really moves the ball. Byron Scott's offense is one on one for the guards and sometimes a pick and roll. They don't even have an offensive system.

Kyrie is second in the league in TOs!

Link

 

[Melancer46]

Kyrie is second in the league in TOs!

Link

That's great. He also probably has the biggest load to carry in the league or is very close to it.

 

[Gabjon]

That's great. He also probably has the biggest load to carry in the league or is very close to it.

Because he is a ball hog! They scored 108 points tonight against the Heat and nobody took more than 14 shots Kryie averages 17.7 shots a night!

 

[Melancer46]

Because he is a ball hog! They scored 108 points tonight against the Heat and nobody took more than 14 shots Kryie averages 17.7 shots a night!

No, because his second banana scoring wise is a guy that is shooting 38% from the field. More often than not, Irving has to carry the team on his back on the offensive end. Regardless of what you may think, Irving is without a doubt one of the best offensive point guards in the league, and it's still only his second year. He's a huge liability defensively, but offensively, he does everything a team would want in a point guard.

 

[Gabjon]

No, because his second banana scoring wise is a guy that is shooting 38% from the field. More often than not, Irving has to carry the team on his back on the offensive end. Regardless of what you may think, Irving is without a doubt one of the best offensive point guards in the league, and it's still only his second year. He's a huge liability defensively, but offensively, he does everything a team would want in a point guard.

Why because he is on your fantasy team or you like his commercials? They scored 104 last night without him vs Philly they scored 92 and won.

 

[Melancer46]

Why because he is on your fantasy team or you like his commercials? They scored 104 last night without him vs Philly they scored 92 and won.

No, because he's one of the best scorers in the league, is already regarded as one of the most clutch players in the league, handles the ball extremely well, shoots the ball very well, and passes the ball well.

 

[Gabjon]

No, because he's one of the best scorers in the league, is already regarded as one of the most clutch players in the league, handles the ball extremely well, shoots the ball very well, and passes the ball well.

But that's the point he is not that good yet. He has been marketed very heavily by the NBA as the next great player and he is very good. But he is not "in the best of the NBA" in any category. He is basically a rookie himself when considering the lockout and the fact that he missed games do to injury (only played 51 last year). He speaks well, comes from a great family, and the team and the league are selling him very hard to the Cavs fan (as they should it a business after all). But numbers never lie. He is a shoot first PG who doesn't make his teammates better.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He has struggled at the 2 guard. Kyrie is hurt and Dion is playing a lot more pg hence the assist numbers, also they only had 13 TOs with Dion having zero. Kyrie is a great scorer better than Dion imo but he is not the passer Dion is. This is not just my opinion a lot of Cleveland sports are saying the same thing. If Kyrie was 2-3 inches taller no one would consider him is a PG.

If most players were 2-3 inches taller, they'd be a different position. I don't get your argument. Saying waiters runs the team better than Irving is laughable to me.

 

[Gabjon]

If most players were 2-3 inches taller, they'd be a different position. I don't get your argument. Saying waiters runs the team better than Irving is laughable to me.

Not true height does not define position MCW is 2-3 inches taller than Kyrie but he is a point guard. Kyrie not good at running a team and his numbers support that.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

The Cavs really aren't much better off or worse off without Irving, because he gives up as many points as he scores..if not more.

This is one of the most overlooked aspects of NBA basketball. When you are a turnstile on defense, it puts so much pressure on your bigs and kills your defensive rotations/game plan.

I think Dion has been very good for a rookie, but he was very lazy trying to get to Allen on that killer 3 ball last night. Lebron made the perfect pass and boom. Things happen so quick in this league.. Dion has to be more aggressive on that end. He carries himself like he doesn't need to bust it on defense. I really think he will get in top shape for next season, realizing how much of a grind 82 games is. He will not be a Jonny Flynn type flame out.

 

[Melancer46]

Not true height does not define position MCW is 2-3 inches taller than Kyrie but he is a point guard. Kyrie not good at running a team and his numbers support that.

1. I think MCW could very well end up being a SG at the next level.
2. Which numbers support the fact that Kyrie isn't good at running a team? The fact that they don't win games while having one of the worst rosters in the league?

 

[Gabjon]

1. I think MCW could very well end up being a SG at the next level.
2. Which numbers support the fact that Kyrie isn't good at running a team? The fact that they don't win games while having one of the worst rosters in the league?

1. So you like shooting guards who aren't great shooters and point guards who aren't passers and you are basing this on height? MCW is a point guard a persons height has little to do with how they see the game.

2. Kyrie is 2nd in the league in TOs and has a worse assist/TOs ratio than the guy who is first. Kyrie goes down and they TOs go down by 6 per game in the first 3 games and points are up (of course they are shots are up) I just Allen Iverson was a point guard....sure he was.

 

[Melancer46]

1. So you like shooting guards who aren't great shooters and point guards who aren't passers and you are basing this on height? MCW is a point guard a persons height has little to do with how they see the game.

2. Kyrie is 2nd in the league in TOs and has a worse assist/TOs ratio than the guy who is first. Kyrie goes down and they TOs go down by 6 per game in the first 3 games and points are up (of course they are shots are up) I just Allen Iverson was a point guard....sure he was.

1. No, I haven't said any of that. I want to see MCW improve on his ball-handling, but right now, I could see him being a play-making SG at the next level. Also, there's tons of SGs that aren't great shooters, and I think MCW has potential to develop into a good shooter anyways. Irving already has the complete package you look for in an elite PG (ya know... besides his god-awful defense).

2. First of all, we're 13 games into the NBA season. It's way too early to talk about how good they are with or without a player. Second, That's great that they're turning it over less per game. They're also still losing and playing just as poorly as they were with him. Third, I think positions are more about who you defend than what you do on the offensive end. For example, LeBron is technically playing SF or PF this year. That's because he generally defends the SF or PF. But on the offensive end, I think most would agree that he plays the role of PG for them. Iverson was sometimes considered a PG and sometimes considered a SG (I believe he was considered a SG when Philly had Eric Snow and when Iverson went to Denver), but he was usually the primary ball-handler on the offensive end in the same way that LeBron or Kyrie are now. Just because some are more aggressive scoring the ball than others doesn't mean that they aren't the primary ball-handler.

 

[Gabjon]

1. No, I haven't said any of that. I want to see MCW improve on his ball-handling, but right now, I could see him being a play-making SG at the next level. Also, there's tons of SGs that aren't great shooters, and I think MCW has potential to develop into a good shooter anyways. Irving already has the complete package you look for in an elite PG (ya know... besides his god-awful defense).

2. First of all, we're 13 games into the NBA season. It's way too early to talk about how good they are with or without a player. Second, That's great that they're turning it over less per game. They're also still losing and playing just as poorly as they were with him. Third, I think positions are more about who you defend than what you do on the offensive end. For example, LeBron is technically playing SF or PF this year. That's because he generally defends the SF or PF. But on the offensive end, I think most would agree that he plays the role of PG for them. Iverson was sometimes considered a PG and sometimes considered a SG (I believe he was considered a SG when Philly had Eric Snow and when Iverson went to Denver), but he was usually the primary ball-handler on the offensive end in the same way that LeBron or Kyrie are now. Just because some are more aggressive scoring the ball than others doesn't mean that they aren't the primary ball-handler.

How you define elite PG? Obviously it's not statical. LeBron (who should only be compared to Magic IMO) can play every position so using him to make a point regarding positions is not the best idea. But if you are saying Kyrie is a PG because he can only defind that position (which he doesn't do very well) than fine if you believe that he runs an offense like an Elite pg than you are not correct his numbers don't support it, he doesn't make players around him better, he does set other players up for easy buckets. That is not how he thinks, that not how he sees the game. He is not a point guard. He is a scorer, which is fine but to win a team needs a point guard and unless he is LBJ he needs to play guard.