Syracuse is vulnerable because

[orangefan13]

I am so sick and tired of people looking for weaknesses.

There is a reason we do it in the regualar season to see if our younger players can get better and our upperclassmen can carry more on their plate.

Doing it now is pointless.

Fab Melo is more defensive minded. Keita and Rak the same.
KJO and Scoop are more offensive minded.
Dion,CJ, and MCW are both.
Triche(when his reflexes are there and hes not playing lazy. His biggest problem is not hustling enough) is both
James is somewhere in the middle.

Thets just go out there and win. There is no reason we shouldn't have 3 hot players if not 4 every night.
When we lose in the round of 16 32 or 64 its because only one or two guys step up.

We play zone which plays with transition and athleticism early in the season that is why we do well early on.
Other teams play man to man and play it more physical aggressive and with more cheating and less whistles as the year goes on.

Nov-Dec Dion showed who he could be. Hes even taking a bigger step this month.
Jan- Scoop showed who he could be his passing and driving finally came out. Fab finally came to play.
Feb - KJO and Fair stepped up huge.
March- Southerland has came out to play.
Triche- when he hustles and plays to his reflexes he is so much better of a player its the difference from him playing and sitting.
Then there is those MCW, Xmas and Keita guys.
This team can put all of this togther.

For the record this team is meant for a tournament setting. Yes we had a bad game at MSG. But this team has so many weapons when we put them together with need and urgency Look the F Out!

 

[Sgt Cuse]

That's a nice pollyanna sentiment, but I believe you're wrong - both in your belief that anyone who criticizes the team's poor play or the coach's questionable decisions is a "hater" and in your silly supposition that the player who's able to leap over the nine other guys on the court doesn't have the ability to contribute to Syracuse's offense.

Further, if it really is the case that Fab is wholly unable to contribute, then wouldn't the coaching staff share in this failure to develop a future draft pick into a reliable scorer after two years and over 60 college games? Every team that Syracuse plays has a big man who can catch an entry pass and make a dunk. Isn't it curious that we'd be the exception?

First your original comment was framed to suggest that JB was an idiot for having a 1st round draft pick who they didn't run plays for. I gave you a legitimate possible reason for which JB may not be doing that. And it wasn't just criticism that put you in the "hater" category it was unreasonable criticism framed under the - He's an idiot - that makes it annoying. And you didn't address that part, what motive would JB have to not run post plays if it was successful in practice.

And yes, I believe there can be legitimate questions on why Fab isn't ready. That to me, is a much better question. I don't know why Fab has shown no discernable improvement in the post. Not every team has a post presence - that was silly of you to say. But why Fab hasn't shown anything is weird. He seems to have all kinds of potential.

The guy with the double name and linear regression model was one person who was early on advocating the development of Fab over the shooting of JS. I was wondering if there might have been something to what that guy was saying (not to the idea that he could model someones improvement). Maybe we are seeing the affects of not having a bigs coach. The short term rah rah boost out of Hop may have run its course.

Whatever the reason it is a shame that against an incredibly small team SU doesn't seem equiped to hammer down low.

 

[OttoMets]

First your original comment was framed to suggest that JB was an idiot for having a 1st round draft pick who they didn't run plays for. I gave you a legitimate possible reason for which JB may not be doing that. And it wasn't just criticism that put you in the "hater" category it was unreasonable criticism framed under the - He's an idiot - that makes it annoying. And you didn't address that part, what motive would JB have to not run post plays if it was successful in practice.

And yes, I believe there can be legitimate questions on why Fab isn't ready. That to me, is a much better question. I don't know why Fab has shown no discernable improvement in the post. Not every team has a post presence - that was silly of you to say. But why Fab hasn't shown anything is weird. He seems to have all kinds of potential.

The guy with the double name and linear regression model was one person who was early on advocating the development of Fab over the shooting of JS. I was wondering if there might have been something to what that guy was saying (not to the idea that he could model someones improvement). Maybe we are seeing the affects of not having a bigs coach. The short term rah rah boost out of Hop may have run its course.

Whatever the reason it is a shame that against an incredibly small team SU doesn't seem equiped to hammer down low.

I'm not calling Boeheim an idiot, but I've been steadfast in my belief that he has mismanaged this lineup (and that that contributed to our inconsistent play down the stretch). Fab, we recall, did have some success scoring off high-lows and pick-and-rolls earlier in the year. A little after his return, some of us noted that we weren't running as many (if any) plays for him.

Fab's still raw (he misses a ton of layups, for one thing). I do think he's improved in at least one area - he's establishing better post position than he was in December, when he routinely was posting up under the backboard. It pretty clear that he's no longer an option on offense, though. For whatever reason, Boeheim's not comfortable with the same plays that Fab was executing pretty well in early January. It's unlikely that Fab's abilities have regressed since then. I think Boeheim's just going with a more conservative offense and wants to limits touches for someone who's a risk to a.) miss a layup or b.) fumble away a pass.

Needless to say, I don't agree with this change. Whatever his flaws, Fab needs to be involved in the offense. He's physically superior to 99% of the players he'll go up against; we need to give him a chance to either score or burn the opposing big guys' fouls. He did this with some success in the first 20 games; I see no reason why he can't do it in the last six.

 

[Knicks411]

Something I thought I noticed in the game on Friday; Fab seemed to be playing hot potato with the ball the few times he was getting it. He would pass it out right away, make no attempt to draw the defense to him at all. Just me?

 

[cusetown1]

They are vulnerable when you shoot 8 of 10 three's against them in the first half. Just like UK being vulnerable when a team like IU hits 7 3's in a row. Also rebounding, they NEED to rebound.

 

[moqui]

Further, if it really is the case that Fab is wholly unable to contribute, then wouldn't the coaching staff share in this failure to develop a future draft pick into a reliable scorer after two years and over 60 college games? Every team that Syracuse plays has a big man who can catch an entry pass and make a dunk. Isn't it curious that we'd be the exception?

to be fair, Syracuse lost its long time big man coach half way into Fab's development, and he has been working with a guy who has been a guard coach for his entire career. So, yes, you can put some blame on the coaching staff, but losing Bernie was a completely unforeseen development. Maybe JB should have had someone other than GMac waiting in the wings who could step in and help with the bigs in case of an emergency, but that is several levels down on the preparation scale and it is hard to fault him for that.

that said, I do think the staff dropped the ball in not developing a high post offense this year. Fab and JS both showed signs of being effective there, but JB devolved to his more proven scorers as the schedule got more difficult, and now we are what we are - a fairly soft, perimeter oriented offense with no real post presence

finally, for Sgt. Cuse - I like your posts and I think you are a pretty smart poster, but I also like OttoMets. He sees what he sees and he doesn't sugar coat it; that usually rubs people the wrong way, but it doesn't make him a hater. I think his analysis is usually very solid.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

to be fair, Syracuse lost its long time big man coach half way into Fab's development, and he has been working with a guy who has been a guard coach for his entire career. So, yes, you can put some blame on the coaching staff, but losing Bernie was a completely unforeseen development. Maybe JB should have had someone other than GMac waiting in the wings who could step in and help with the bigs in case of an emergency, but that is several levels down on the preparation scale and it is hard to fault him for that.

that said, I do think the staff dropped the ball in not developing a high post offense this year. Fab and JS both showed signs of being effective there, but JB devolved to his more proven scorers as the schedule got more difficult, and now we are what we are - a fairly soft, perimeter oriented offense with no real post presence

finally, for Sgt. Cuse - I like your posts and I think you are a pretty smart poster, but I also like OttoMets. He sees what he sees and he doesn't sugar coat it; that usually rubs people the wrong way, but it doesn't make him a hater. I think his analysis is usually very solid.

I think SU should address the big man coach situation in the offseason. It would require some adjustments to the staff. They could still go within the family - a DC or Rosie.

For me there is a difference between not sugar coating something and trolling. For some reason this time period is bringing out all types. Hearing people coin Boehemlich or saying we have the only coach with a 1st round draft pick who blah, blah, blah...is not facilitating discussion but is just masquarading hate. It seems like these people are really waiting/wanting the team to fail.

What has JB done to get so many of these types? The only thing I can see is the local media stuff but that doesn't seem to account for this many posters.

 

[rstone7727]

I'm not calling Boeheim an idiot, but I've been steadfast in my belief that he has mismanaged this lineup (and that that contributed to our inconsistent play down the stretch). Fab, we recall, did have some success scoring off high-lows and pick-and-rolls earlier in the year. A little after his return, some of us noted that we weren't running as many (if any) plays for him.

Fab's still raw (he misses a ton of layups, for one thing). I do think he's improved in at least one area - he's establishing better post position than he was in December, when he routinely was posting up under the backboard. It pretty clear that he's no longer an option on offense, though. For whatever reason, Boeheim's not comfortable with the same plays that Fab was executing pretty well in early January. It's unlikely that Fab's abilities have regressed since then. I think Boeheim's just going with a more conservative offense and wants to limits touches for someone who's a risk to a.) miss a layup or b.) fumble away a pass.

Needless to say, I don't agree with this change. Whatever his flaws, Fab needs to be involved in the offense. He's physically superior to 99% of the players he'll go up against; we need to give him a chance to either score or burn the opposing big guys' fouls. He did this with some success in the first 20 games; I see no reason why he can't do it in the last six.

Not sure if JB has mismanaged the lineup at all. Some players are primarily offensive players and in the past JB has featured them on offense, Rony Seikaly comes to mind. We got the ball inside to Rony and he knew what to do with it as a featured offensive player. As of this moment Fab is primarily a defensive player. Sure there will be games where he will score points but Cincy was collapsing on him every time he touched the ball so he appeared to be a bit intimidated. It'll be interesting to see if he gets more offensive production against a very small UNCA team.

 

[br801]

For me there is a difference between not sugar coating something and trolling. For some reason this time period is bringing out all types. Hearing people coin Boehemlich or saying we have the only coach with a 1st round draft pick who blah, blah, blah...is not facilitating discussion but is just masquarading hate. It seems like these people are really waiting/wanting the team to fail.

The number of "troll" posts is pretty frustrating and makes many threads unreadable these days. I can't understand or explain the level of animosity toward many of our players and coaches either. It seems to me that people just have unrealistic expectations and less tolerance these days.

That said, I'll give it about 20 minutes before someone calls me a Boeheim-worshipping Pollyanna who thinks we should stop keeping score in the NCAAs and give everyone a participation trophy.

 

[OttoMets]

to be fair, Syracuse lost its long time big man coach half way into Fab's development, and he has been working with a guy who has been a guard coach for his entire career. So, yes, you can put some blame on the coaching staff, but losing Bernie was a completely unforeseen development.

This is true; it's certainly a unique circumstance. Still, Fab's regression over the past two months is curious. More touches might not be the answer, but I'd like to see it.

 

[NKR1978]

This is true; it's certainly a unique circumstance. Still, Fab's regression over the past two months is curious. More touches might not be the answer, but I'd like to see it.

I would place part of his regression on better competition and coaches that are generally versed in playing against Syracuse.

He's had his moments where I thought he's looked great, but he hasn't put a game together in a while.

There is no excuse for not getting him the ball more, especially this coming game where he should be able to dominate.

Getting away from Big East schools I think will make this team look a lot better. And I think we forget that they have had bouts of greatness during the back stretch but just haven't put together a full 40 or even 30. They need to put at least 30 solid minutes in on Saturday.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[IthacaMatt]

It a battle to see who can score the most points, not who has the deeper bench.

Tired players tend to miss shots. I say wear 'em out. That's what worked for us all year long.

 

[NKR1978]

finally, for Sgt. Cuse - I like your posts and I think you are a pretty smart poster, but I also like OttoMets. He sees what he sees and he doesn't sugar coat it; that usually rubs people the wrong way, but it doesn't make him a hater. I think his analysis is usually very solid.

This is just a funny comment to me, because as someone who generally gives positives more weight than negatives, I don't always agree with him (and I'd put you as the same high quality poster I don't always agree with). But in spite of this, I never get the idea that he would like nothing more than to be wrong. There's a lot of intelligent analysis and fair and legitimate criticism in this thread.

There's a huge difference with the criticism presented in the vast majority of this thread versus the "tavern," "dinoball," "JB conspiracy to only play his chosen ones," "so and so player is a POS/useless/only shows up when it doesn't matter" type threads or arguments that we occasionally get here.

This has been a fun thread to read.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I would place part of his regression on better competition and coaches that are generally versed in playing against Syracuse.

He's had his moments where I thought he's looked great, but he hasn't put a game together in a while.

There is no excuse for not getting him the ball more, especially this coming game where he should be able to dominate.

Getting away from Big East schools I think will make this team look a lot better. And I think we forget that they have had bouts of greatness during the back stretch but just haven't put together a full 40 or even 30. They need to put at least 30 solid minutes in on Saturday.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Why give Fab the ball more if he's not getting it done in practice? I know it's tempting to change the strategy based on a shortcoming of the other team but it is not always the best.

I remember an NCAAT game where we had a senior Craig Forth going up against a freshman from Alabama whose claim to fame was being able to run a 6 minute mile. Looked like a total mismatch on paper. However, Forth hadn't dominated anyone up to that point. I remembered many early attempts to feed Forth. And time after time some error occurred, bobbled passes, missed layups. SU lost the game. In my mind those missed opportunities had a lot to do with the outcome.

To take advantage of the height differential I would rather see KJo get the ball on the block (and not dribbling in out of control from the wing). I have seen some offensive skill out of him.

 

[NKR1978]

Why give Fab the ball more if he's not getting it done in practice? I know it's tempting to change the strategy based on a shortcoming of the other team but it is not always the best.

I remember an NCAAT game where we had a senior Craig Forth going up against a freshman from Alabama whose claim to fame was being able to run a 6 minute mile. Looked like a total mismatch on paper. However, Forth hadn't dominated anyone up to that point. I remembered many early attempts to feed Forth. And time after time some error occurred, bobbled passes, missed layups. SU lost the game. In my mind those missed opportunities had a lot to do with the outcome.

To take advantage of the height differential I would rather see KJo get the ball on the block (and not dribbling in out of control from the wing). I have seen some offensive skill out of him.

Aside from some errant passes, Fab has looked decent when he gets the ball. He's had some nice finishes, and I can only recall one cringe-worthy missed layups. But that is a great point about not getting it done in practice.

A problem with Syracuse for a while has been the guards inability or unwillingness to get the ball inside.

I think everyone agrees that we need to get inside this game - I'd love to see Kris, James, CJ and Fab all have great games against vastly inferior and shorter competition.

 

[KevMonstah]

My initial point on this was, despite whatever coaching you have, you can tell a 7'0", 244lb C to post five feet from the hoop, stick your arms up, catch the ball, and shoot it as soon as you're set. Fab is shooting 56.6% from the field. I mention this because, when another team maybe is hitting a ridiculous amount of threes, Syracuse players think they need to match them, and this sometimes doesn't work. Rather than shoot 15% from deep thinking you can hit an eight/ten/fourteen point shot, why not feed the post, and work inside out? 56% from two is better than 15% from deep. And no shot is worth more than three points, regardless of the situation.

With a followup to other points raised:

- SU had an offensive threat in the post in AO. He shot 66% from the field for his career, which meant "every game not against Hasheem Thabeet". However, he'd get 5-7 shots at most. A guy you can just abuse the interior with, and he gets that, despite every move you could have, and with either hand. SU just does not take advantage of post play.

- Craig Forth had an advantage only against players from the mid-major level down. I'll grant you, a nice supporting player for SU who would've owned lesser level competition, but he was someone whose best clutch game was like 8pts, 5 rebs. Sadly, he couldn't even do to some schools what the under athletic types do to SU, which is have a career game against them.

I like the team, I like the pieces, they just don't always seem to use the right weapons at the right times. Answering a made three with a missed poor three point attempt, or answering a made three with a good offensive possession that gets an attempted five footer? Sometimes the answer is the second one. If they could figure that out - ie, figure out how to make the plays Pitt/Gtown/Lville make against the SU zone - I'd be more convinced that they will go further.

Kev

 

[Sgt Cuse]

My initial point on this was, despite whatever coaching you have, you can tell a 7'0", 244lb C to post five feet from the hoop, stick your arms up, catch the ball, and shoot it as soon as you're set. Fab is shooting 56.6% from the field. I mention this because, when another team maybe is hitting a ridiculous amount of threes, Syracuse players think they need to match them, and this sometimes doesn't work. Rather than shoot 15% from deep thinking you can hit an eight/ten/fourteen point shot, why not feed the post, and work inside out? 56% from two is better than 15% from deep. And no shot is worth more than three points, regardless of the situation.

With a followup to other points raised:

- SU had an offensive threat in the post in AO. He shot 66% from the field for his career, which meant "every game not against Hasheem Thabeet". However, he'd get 5-7 shots at most. A guy you can just abuse the interior with, and he gets that, despite every move you could have, and with either hand. SU just does not take advantage of post play.

- Craig Forth had an advantage only against players from the mid-major level down. I'll grant you, a nice supporting player for SU who would've owned lesser level competition, but he was someone whose best clutch game was like 8pts, 5 rebs. Sadly, he couldn't even do to some schools what the under athletic types do to SU, which is have a career game against them.

I like the team, I like the pieces, they just don't always seem to use the right weapons at the right times. Answering a made three with a missed poor three point attempt, or answering a made three with a good offensive possession that gets an attempted five footer? Sometimes the answer is the second one. If they could figure that out - ie, figure out how to make the plays Pitt/Gtown/Lville make against the SU zone - I'd be more convinced that they will go further.

Kev

First, you seem to consistently underestimate the skill of posting up a player. It is not as easy as just throw it to the 7 footer with his arms up 5 feet from the basket. If it was the team with the tallest guy would be the odds on favorite every game.

Don't you think JB is either conciously or subconciously running the percentages of what the post has to offer? And those percentages you threw out are flawed. Certainly no one is thinking 15% from wide open threes. And Fabs 56% is including several transition buckets and doesn't factor in his turnovers or bizarre passes.

What makes you think Fab is so much more advanced than Craig Forth? Forth played the game a lot longer than Fab has. Fab is a nice supporting player for SU who gives an excellent defensive presence. Craig Forth knew his role. CF would not have launched that UConn mistake.

When JB has had a post presence, he has used it. From DC to Wallace to Hakeem to AO to RJ. JB loves to use an advantage in the post. The lack of a post is what makes this team so different from JBs past ones.

You and Otto seem to be suggesting he has this big advantage and isn't using it. Why is that again? Isn't it a lot more logical to think Fab has not demonstrated that part of his game?