Syracuse Recruiting This Fall

[Van111]

Thoughts on this fall come to mind this recruiting season. With arguably one of the tuffest schedules in the country and 5 nationally televised games, this could be a make or break year under Doug's tenure. Do well in these games, and we just might get a huge boost in the program. Overachieve this year and go to a major bowl would do wonders and say a heck of a lot to people like me to where this program is and where it is heading. On the other side, should things go south, and we perform terribly, it could have an impact all around on the program negatively going into DM's 5th year as head coach into the ACC.

Just thought I would get your opinions, should we leave some slots open for some real impact players or would you all feel more comfortable having players already committed to the program? Last year we were pretty booked by September, I would be open to keeping 5 or 6 slots open looking to bag some marquee kids into our program. I also know it could backfire, but this may be a risk worth taking.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Just thought I would get your opinions, should we leave some slots open for some real impact players or would you all feel more comfortable having players already committed to the program?

How do you know the current commits aren't impact guys?

Besides, Marrone and staff look for guys that aren't necessarily impact players coming out of high school. They want recruits that will develop into great players after a redshirt years and a couple of years of conditioning and practice field experience.

I think the depth is getting to a point where Syracuse doesn't need to rely on freshmen to improve on a year-by-year basis.

 

[Rocco]

How do you know the current commits aren't impact guys?

Besides, Marrone and staff look for guys that aren't necessarily impact players coming out of high school. They want recruits that will develop into great players after a redshirt years and a couple of years of conditioning and practice field experience.

I think the depth is getting to a point where Syracuse doesn't need to rely on freshmen to improve on a year-by-year basis.

LeMoyne - this class is loaded with duds. Many of them aren't even rated!!!

 

[Van111]

How do you know the current commits aren't impact guys?

Besides, Marrone and staff look for guys that aren't necessarily impact players coming out of high school. They want recruits that will develop into great players after a redshirt years and a couple of years of conditioning and practice field experience.

I think the depth is getting to a point where Syracuse doesn't need to rely on freshmen to improve on a year-by-year basis.

Like any year, it is an unknown who could potentially be an impact player or not, I am just saying that there is a significantly higher chance on highly touted players coming out of high school then others. Wouldn't it be nice to bag a highly touted 4/5 star and find out? Take I. Johnson, he was a BB player, now thats a reach, doesn't mean he couldn't be a star player, but it is a reach. So you are saying these highly touted kids are not meeting our criteria because we would rather develop them? Or is it we don't have a shot at them?

 

[Van111]

LeMoyne - this class is loaded with duds. Many of them aren't even rated!!!

We have some good position players but they have to be developed. I do question the back to back offers at QB for 2 very like players, but I can live with it. I do like the Williams Commit, but the rest are and were unknowns out of nowhere that all of a sudden got rated.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Like any year, it is an unknown who could potentially be an impact player or not, I am just saying that there is a significantly higher chance on highly touted players coming out of high school then others. Wouldn't it be nice to bag a highly touted 4/5 star and find out? Take I. Johnson, he was a BB player, now thats a reach, doesn't mean he couldn't be a star player, but it is a reach. So you are saying these highly touted kids are not meeting our criteria because we would rather develop them? Or is it we don't have a shot at them?

If the staff offered Johnson now, that probably means they're high on him and expect big things from him as he gets stronger and gets more comfortable in his own skin. Why is that a reach?

Why does every player have to be a star? The only team ever to win a Super Bowl undefeated had the "No Name Defense". I'd rather have a DT who fills up gaps and stops the run- opposed to a DT who gets sacks and is constantly out of position.

In the end, be that 2016 or 2017 or 2018 when Johnson leaves Syracuse University for the pros, graduate school, or a job, will anyone really care if he was a reach in June of 2012, 8 months before national signing day?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

We have some good position players but they have to be developed. This is exactly what Marrone and staff want.

I do question the back to back offers at QB for 2 very like players, but I can live with it. I do like the Williams Commit, but the rest are and were unknowns out of nowhere that all of a sudden got rated. So if I start a website today and start assigning star ratings to players who have committed to Syracuse, you'll take my word for the level of their abilities over that of the staff?

 

[JeremyCuse]

While your comments about our current recruits being "reaches", is way off the mark as Lemoyne noted above, your comments about the schedule however are correct. A winning record and a bowl game could really open the flood gates in terms of getting that upper echelon recruit(s) that we have just missed out on the last 1-2 years. That being said should this team have a meltdown and the schedule of USC, Mizz, NW etc take a toll for a 4-8 season or worse, it could be an absolute disaster with far reaching implications. That is why the scheduling of Mizzouri was in my opinion a horrendous move, for a team that will likely need that W to become bowl eligible a late season game at Mizz is definitely not the answer. If this team finishes 5-7 with a loss at Mizz the person who scheduled that game should be fired.

 

[OrangeMojo]

While your comments about our current recruits being "reaches", is way off the mark as Lemoyne noted above, your comments about the schedule however are correct. A winning record and a bowl game could really open the flood gates in terms of getting that upper echelon recruit(s) that we have just missed out on the last 1-2 years. That being said should this team have a meltdown and the schedule of USC, Mizz, NW etc take a toll for a 4-8 season or worse, it could be an absolute disaster with far reaching implications. That is why the scheduling of Mizzouri was in my opinion a horrendous move, for a team that will likely need that W to become bowl eligible a late season game at Mizz is definitely not the answer. If this team finishes 5-7 with a loss at Mizz the person who scheduled that game should be fired.

what if they win that game at Mizzou to get bowl eligible and it gets everyone talking about SU rising and heading into the ACC the following season - that would help with recruiting, no?

 

[JeremyCuse]

what if they win that game at Mizzou to get bowl eligible and it gets everyone talking about SU rising and heading into the ACC the following season - that would help with recruiting, no?

Yes it would and I sure as hell hope it happens. But lets be honest and look at it realistically. SU teams have not done well down the stretch under Marrone or on the road save for the year we made a bowl. I would feel much better about a bowl game this year if we were playing North Texas or Middle Tenn State in September at HOME with a fresh and healthy team versus an SEC team Mizzouri on the road in late November with what will surely be a depleted team. I am sure you can see how SU probably wont win this game.

 

[JJReddawg]

versus an SEC team Mizzouri on the road in late November with what will surely be a depleted team. I am sure you can see how SU probably wont win this game.

Leading up to the Syracuse game, Missouri has the following games:

10/13 - Alabama
10/27 - Kentucky
11/3 - @ Florida
11/10 - @Tennessee

Missouri won't be coming in very "fresh". If we can stay healthy, I'd give Syracuse at least a 35% - 40% chance of knocking them off at this point.

 

[Van111]

Leading up to the Syracuse game, Missouri has the following games:

10/13 - Alabama
10/27 - Kentucky
11/3 - @ Florida
11/10 - @Tennessee

Missouri won't be coming in very "fresh". If we can stay healthy, I'd give Syracuse at least a 35% - 40% chance of knocking them off at this point.

True, but they very well may be hungry for a win as well coming off their first SEC season.

 

[PhatOrange]

Leading up to the Syracuse game, Missouri has the following games:

10/13 - Alabama
10/27 - Kentucky
11/3 - @ Florida
11/10 - @Tennessee

Missouri won't be coming in very "fresh". If we can stay healthy, I'd give Syracuse at least a 35% - 40% chance of knocking them off at this point.

They do have a bye week between Bama and Kentucky. I can't realistically think we'd win the game but looking at Missouri's entire schedule and they could be staring at 3-7 or 4-6 when they face us. Their first season in the SEC will take a toll on them - and lets be honest here, Missouri is no elite juggernaut program.

Sept. 1, 2012 SE Louisiana
Sept. 8, 2012 Georgia
Sept. 15, 2012 Arizona State
Sept. 22, 2012 at South Carolina
Sept. 29, 2012 at UCF
Oct. 6, 2012 Vanderbilt
Oct. 13, 2012 Alabama
Oct. 27, 2012 Kentucky
Nov. 3, 2012 at Florida
Nov. 10, 2012 at Tennessee

And they play 7 straight before that first bye week.

 

[Van111]

While your comments about our current recruits being "reaches", is way off the mark as Lemoyne noted above, your comments about the schedule however are correct. A winning record and a bowl game could really open the flood gates in terms of getting that upper echelon recruit(s) that we have just missed out on the last 1-2 years. That being said should this team have a meltdown and the schedule of USC, Mizz, NW etc take a toll for a 4-8 season or worse, it could be an absolute disaster with far reaching implications. That is why the scheduling of Mizzouri was in my opinion a horrendous move, for a team that will likely need that W to become bowl eligible a late season game at Mizz is definitely not the answer. If this team finishes 5-7 with a loss at Mizz the person who scheduled that game should be fired.

I do not mean a "reach" is necessariliy a bad thing, he may be the next "Blind Side" candidate for a movie, but like Orr, he hasnt' played the position hardly at all, and I can bet that in most cases when this happens, since 99.2% of all college football players do not go beyound the CFB ranks, it is a reach he will develop into an impact type player. Again, all players have an impact on and off the field, I am refferring to the "top" eschelan type players.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Yes it would and I sure as hell hope it happens. But lets be honest and look at it realistically. SU teams have not done well down the stretch under Marrone or on the road save for the year we made a bowl. I would feel much better about a bowl game this year if we were playing North Texas or Middle Tenn State in September at HOME with a fresh and healthy team versus an SEC team Mizzouri on the road in late November with what will surely be a depleted team. I am sure you can see how SU probably wont win this game.

I honestly have no idea if SU will be any good this year. I think it mostly depends on the OL and the coaches coming up with a decent game plan for the offense - and these could both go either way IMO. I know in one year out of his three, Marrone's teams were much better on the road than at home - so again, I have no idea if that will be the case this year or not. I think SU at least has a puncher's chance this year and at this point I'll take it over scheduling a win over a North Texas. it - time to win some big games.

 

[sutomcat]

Thoughts on this fall come to mind this recruiting season. With arguably one of the tuffest schedules in the country and 5 nationally televised games, this could be a make or break year under Doug's tenure. Do well in these games, and we just might get a huge boost in the program. Overachieve this year and go to a major bowl would do wonders and say a heck of a lot to people like me to where this program is and where it is heading. On the other side, should things go south, and we perform terribly, it could have an impact all around on the program negatively going into DM's 5th year as head coach into the ACC.

Just thought I would get your opinions, should we leave some slots open for some real impact players or would you all feel more comfortable having players already committed to the program? Last year we were pretty booked by September, I would be open to keeping 5 or 6 slots open looking to bag some marquee kids into our program. I also know it could backfire, but this may be a risk worth taking.

This would be a bad idea, IMHO. Top notch marquee players don't wait until the end of the season to see what bad programs have made major improvements/are ready to deign with a visit and a verbal. You don't recruit these players late in the process. If it happens, it is rare. We would end up leaving 5 or 6 scholarships unfilled...because the types of players we are signing right now will not be available at that late date. We can't afford to run that thin...depth is a huge issue right now. Doing this would just make a bad situation worse.

DM is doing it the right way. He is going after the top prospects in the SU recruiting areas (with mostly bad results), and identifying and signing 2nd tier players not quite as good, but capable of becoming excellent college players. He is mostly going to fail to sign the big names...might get one or two. But he is going to get a fine class of talented athletes with high ceilings. This class is already projecting as better than the class of 2012, which was better than the class of 2011. Progress is being made. It is slow going, and a 5-7 season (or two) doesn't speed it up.

I remain convinced that the slow but steady talent upgrades DM is driving will bare the fruit of consistent winning seasons, which will get us in a position to sign more upper tier players, which will drive more wins, etc. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride. It will be worth your time.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I do not mean a "reach" is necessariliy a bad thing, he may be the next "Blind Side" candidate for a movie, but like Orr, he hasnt' played the position hardly at all, and I can bet that in most cases when this happens, since 99.2% of all college football players do not go beyound the CFB ranks, it is a reach he will develop into an impact type player. Again, all players have an impact on and off the field, I am refferring to the "top" eschelan type players.

Looking back over the past few years how many "reaches" do you see? No need to name names but there doesnt appear to be more than a handful.

Most cases these guys are now showing to be productive at the very least and we appear to be getting a few more guys with higher ceilings as we proceed.

I guess I would ask what you classify as top echelon players since it's a bit of a relative term.

 

[Van111]

This would be a bad idea, IMHO. Top notch marquee players don't wait until the end of the season to see what bad programs have made major improvements/are ready to deign with a visit and a verbal. You don't recruit these players late in the process. If it happens, it is rare. We would end up leaving 5 or 6 scholarships unfilled...because the types of players we are signing right now will not be available at that late date. We can't afford to run that thin...depth is a huge issue right now. Doing this would just make a bad situation worse.

DM is doing it the right way. He is going after the top prospects in the SU recruiting areas (with mostly bad results), and identifying and signing 2nd tier players not quite as good, but capable of becoming excellent college players. He is mostly going to fail to sign the big names...might get one or two. But he is going to get a fine class of talented athletes with high ceilings. This class is already projecting as better than the class of 2012, which was better than the class of 2011. Progress is being made. It is slow going, and a 5-7 season (or two) doesn't speed it up.

I remain convinced that the slow but steady talent upgrades DM is driving will bare the fruit of consistent winning seasons, which will get us in a position to sign more upper tier players, which will drive more wins, etc. Take a deep breath and enjoy the ride. It will be worth your time.

Good Points...there are always a few hold outs and the #1 reciever last year went to Mizzou late as a surprise, but I could easily be swayed by your views here. I just hope we don't end up with a terrible season. Other than the Stoney Brook game, all of the contests we have will be with teams that will most likely be favored to win. Of course, after we baet NW and than upset USC, that will change!

 

[CaliCuse]

Thoughts on this fall come to mind this recruiting season. With arguably one of the tuffest schedules in the country and 5 nationally televised games, this could be a make or break year under Doug's tenure. Do well in these games, and we just might get a huge boost in the program. Overachieve this year and go to a major bowl would do wonders and say a heck of a lot to people like me to where this program is and where it is heading. On the other side, should things go south, and we perform terribly, it could have an impact all around on the program negatively going into DM's 5th year as head coach into the ACC.

Just thought I would get your opinions, should we leave some slots open for some real impact players or would you all feel more comfortable having players already committed to the program? Last year we were pretty booked by September, I would be open to keeping 5 or 6 slots open looking to bag some marquee kids into our program. I also know it could backfire, but this may be a risk worth taking.

I agree that very good to great is far more beneficial than bad or terrible. That this is a pivotal year for Doug is correct in my humble opinion. Doug must be in the running to acquire highly rated players to the roster on both sides of the ball.BTW I once again ad nauseum suggest that the Special Teams aspect of the game be jacked especially in the punt return plays which are beyond weak and pointless for the Orangemen for far too long now. I think its was Mike Holmes who broke off a return of significant yards while playing here and none since. K
Rs have been OK and Kobena is due for a scoring run. It took Dorian like four years to finally find the seam and turn on the jets. We have a couple of players who have the required talent to do both .

 

[SoBristol]

I imagine this year's recruiting would go along the lines of last year -- we got commitments from 5 of our better prospects after their senior year seasons (Nov - Jan), plus 2 JUCOs in January to fill positions of need in the DL.

How the season goes might turn the heads of a couple of prospects, but I doubt the staff can plan around that.

 

[javadoc]

DM is doing it the right way...

Amen, Brother Tomcat. My sentiments exactly, and as should reasonably be expected.

 

[bnoro]

I don't even have to read Van111's posts anymore.

It usually just goes "something something something we have no impact players something something bunch of 2 stars something something we need 4/5 stars something something we never land good ny prospects"

 

[Van111]

I don't even have to read Van111's posts anymore.

It usually just goes "something something something we have no impact players something something bunch of 2 stars something something we need 4/5 stars something something we never land good ny prospects"

For some of borno, the glass is either half empty or half full, not sure if you have a full or empty glass in your case as far as an opinion. It's not like DM gives a rats arss about any of our opinions, suggestions, passions or wants...he will do what HE thinks is right, and so he should. Never once Have I said anything derogatory or degrading on Coach M, and for the record I am in full support of him. Because I feel we need better star talent is simply because I want him to succeed and be the one that brings this program back from the dead. Should we go 2 or 3 more seasons below 500, you can bet there will be many who want him and DG out of town, in no particular order. I make the 800 mile trek to games to support the CUSE at a minimum of 1 per year, usually 2 (Not counting BB). Unfortunately I have witnessed 5 losses out of the last 6 games I attended, all during the DM Era, so yes.....if you don't mind, I would like a winner back in Syracuse very soon, starting with the North Western Game September 1st! In this I hope we share common ground!

 

[Crusty]

I am not hopeful for the coming season. The schedule looks just too tough for us at this point but I am glad we are not playing a bunch of patsies and declaring victory. That is the surest way to ruin a program (or keep it there). DM has done a good job building for the future by rebuilding the NY pipeline as well as getting on out-of-state players early based on his own evaluations. We all know that stars start piling up when the offers pile up - DM has gotten in front of that game. Sure, to do that he has to believe in his ability to pick talent and take the flak from nuts like us when we think he is "reaching". We have some of the most interesting commits in this class in many years and that is certainly a great sign and an indication of how recruiting as an ACC team will be so much better. Lastly, none of us really know how good some of the kids (redshirts and others) really are - I suspect they might be better than we realize.

I will be patient this season and will focus on the future.

 

[Whitey23]

I am not hopeful for the coming season. The schedule looks just too tough for us at this point but I am glad we are not playing a bunch of patsies and declaring victory. That is the surest way to ruin a program (or keep it there). DM has done a good job building for the future by rebuilding the NY pipeline as well as getting on out-of-state players early based on his own evaluations. We all know that stars start piling up when the offers pile up - DM has gotten in front of that game. Sure, to do that he has to believe in his ability to pick talent and take the flak from nuts like us when we think he is "reaching". We have some of the most interesting commits in this class in many years and that is certainly a great sign and an indication of how recruiting as an ACC team will be so much better. Lastly, none of us really know how good some of the kids (redshirts and others) really are - I suspect they might be better than we realize.

I will be patient this season and will focus on the future.

My thoughts exactly