Tell me why I shouldn't expect...

[NineOneSeven]

Sure it is. You could be 100% in redzone efficiency, if you don't get there that often it doesn't matter.

It all matters.

True.

It comes down to what you think has a higher probability:

A: 100% (of course an exaggeration) redzone efficiency but poor ability to move the ball down the field.
B: Ability to move the ball down the field, but awful redzone efficiency

B is of course much more prevalent amongst teams.

 

[GoSU96]

He ran 2/3 of the time his last year at Elmhurst, which was his best year. He has changed the recruitng. Those are two bread crumbs.

Changed the recruiting? They picked up a Juco TE. I don't know if that's a huge change.

 

[NineOneSeven]

nothing in lester's background lends itself to anything. which is why we should hire someone else. he talked about 12 personnel and being hard to identify.

i brought up stanford to show how hard it can be to maintain a TE centric offense

Correct.

I also think people vastly underestimate just how important/critical a dominant TE can be for a team. They are also few and far between.

Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and Julius Thomas are the top 3 TE's in the NFL by quite a bit. What else to they have in common? Elite quarterbacks. It's no secret that top QBs and top WRs feed off of eachother. However, these three guys are a matchup nightmare. They essentially are uncoverable one v one, especially in the redzone.

So all we have to do is go find a Graham/Gronk/Julius TE and we are good. Then get an elite QB. Get a move on, Lester. Heck, I'll take an average both .

 

[KaiserUEO]

Correct.

I also think people vastly underestimate just how important/critical a dominant TE can be for a team. They are also few and far between.

Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, and Julius Thomas are the top 3 TE's in the NFL by quite a bit. What else to they have in common? Elite quarterbacks. It's no secret that top QBs and top WRs feed off of eachother. However, these three guys are a matchup nightmare. They essentially are uncoverable one v one, especially in the redzone.

So all we have to do is go find a Graham/Gronk/Julius TE and we are good. Then get an elite QB. Get a move on, Lester. Heck, I'll take an average both .

no love for Larry Donnell??

he dropped a game winning TD v the niners and this sunday fumbled for basically a game winning return 6.

thats mvp worthy......

 

[cuseincincy]

Questions I have:

1. Who will back up Phillips at RB? I would be satisfied with Morris and McFarlane sharing role. I'd be ecstatic if another frosh worked his way in.
2. Once we find one will anyone introduce our QB to our TE? Please?
3. And if we have to introduce our QB to our TE, why in the world would we want to play 2 TE's? Baby steps.
4. How do I know Broyld is any different than Adrian Flemming or Dorian Graham?
5. How long will I continue to have "new guy" syndrome? Seriously though, how could any new QB's not be better than what we got this year?
6. Which young WR be the #2 next to Ishmael? (fingers crossed for Enoicy or Custis).
7. Will we ever return a punt again?

 

[NineOneSeven]

no love for Larry Donnell??

he dropped a game winning TD v the niners and this sunday fumbled for basically a game winning return 6.

thats mvp worthy...

I actually think he is very skilled, just cant hold the damn ball

 

[KaiserUEO]

I actually think he is very skilled, just cant hold the damn ball

i like him too.

but damn....

 

[Orangello]

Because we will have the same OC according to HCSS.

 

[Crusty]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I start to feel really TOed.

Not just because we are the only P5 team that plays our home games in a controlled environment so we have unique, attractive things to offer really good offensive players, but because for all of the scoring everyone else is doing that we're not, we still have people thinking that the answer is for us to go heavy on tight ends and fullbacks and try to play smashmouth, grind it out football.

The people in Syracuse would have no idea what to do if they saw an offense every week that averaged 30 points a game. They'd go ballistic. Probably be confused. And the sad thing is - 30 points per game would rank you 61st in college football right now! 61st isn't really much to aspire to. In 2004, 30 points per game would have given you the 32nd best offense in college football - folks, the game has changed and it happened pretty quickly. We don't realize it because we haven't seen it first hand, but it has.

But hey, you know what, let's run some option, put a fullback in there, go double tight and play ball control and for field position and try to grind and white knuckle our way to the bare minimum for bowl qualification in our pristine playing conditions while everyone scores more TDs in 4 games than we do in a season.

I am a realist and am resigned to the fact that Shafer will run the offense that he can run with the talent at hand. He tried the N-Zone thing and if it had gotten us to another bowl, he would have stayed with it. Shafer needs to get to a bowl next year in order to hang onto his job and I am afraid the safest way for him to do that is to try and win ugly.We do not have the talent to run anything else and now he doesn't have the time to recruit players that can.

The defense is in good hands. (I think people may be surprised to find it better next year than this year.) I think Shafer and Lester are preparing to deploy a run first, possession type offense. Control the clock, maintain field position and win the turnover battle. He also has a decent kicker now with range, which he didn't have the last two seasons, which only adds to the plan.

Shafer is who he is, like all of us, a product of his experiences. The best program he was a part of was Stanford and his worst experience was Michigan under Rich Rod. That says a lot to me. He tried the Rich Rod thing and now I think he will return to his smash mouth Midwestern roots and run something akin to Stanford. All the earmarks are there.

It is what it is and all we can do is hope that they do a good job running whatever they come up with.

 

[TheCusian]

no love for Larry Donnell??

he dropped a game winning TD v the niners and this sunday fumbled for basically a game winning return 6.

thats mvp worthy...

Do the Giants still play football?

 

[TheCusian]

I am a realist and am resigned to the fact that Shafer will run the offense that he can run with the talent at hand. He tried the N-Zone thing and if it had gotten us to another bowl, he would have stayed with it. Shafer needs to get to a bowl next year in order to hang onto his job and I am afraid the safest way for him to do that is to try and win ugly.We do not have the talent to run anything else and now he doesn't have the time to recruit players that can.

The defense is in good hands. (I think people may be surprised to find it better next year than this year.) I think Shafer and Lester are preparing to deploy a run first, possession type offense. Control the clock, maintain field position and win the turnover battle. He also has a decent kicker now with range, which he didn't have the last two seasons, which only adds to the plan.

Shafer is who he is, like all of us, a product of his experiences. The best program he was a part of was Stanford and his worst experience was Michigan under Rich Rod. That says a lot to me. He tried the Rich Rod thing and now I think he will return to his smash mouth Midwestern roots and run something akin to Stanford. All the earmarks are there.

It is what it is and all we can do is hope that they do a good job running whatever they come up with.

I don't know. I think Lester wants to air it out and be really dynamic out of the 12 personnel. I think it's all out, take shots, etc.

 

[Crusty]

Changed the recruiting? They picked up a Juco TE. I don't know if that's a huge change.

Too late for big changes,of course, but they clearly have changed some things. They ignored commit West Lindor into de-committing and said they were looking for a different type of TE. They have decided they need a QB for this class as well.

I understand that things like a 12 package are only small hints but they do say something, especially when you change your recruiting needs. Obviously,we are all just guessing, but that is all we can do at this point.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Do the Giants still play football?

theyre teaching this year.

theyre teaching people about plays.

about how 1 or 2 plays can make all the difference in the world.

if you get 100 plays in a game, and you do the job on 98, but not on 2...you lose.

frustrating as all hell.

 

[Crusty]

I don't know. I think Lester wants to air it out and be really dynamic out of the 12 personnel. I think it's all out, take shots, etc.

That would scare me more than anything. Which QB can do that for us?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Shafer is who he is, like all of us, a product of his experiences. The best program he was a part of was Stanford and his worst experience was Michigan under Rich Rod. That says a lot to me. He tried the Rich Rod thing and now I think he will return to his smash mouth Midwestern roots and run something akin to Stanford. All the earmarks are there.

Really good point.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know. I think Lester wants to air it out and be really dynamic out of the 12 personnel. I think it's all out, take shots, etc.

all ears for other offenses like that, google away

 

[Millhouse]

I am a realist and am resigned to the fact that Shafer will run the offense that he can run with the talent at hand. He tried the N-Zone thing and if it had gotten us to another bowl, he would have stayed with it. Shafer needs to get to a bowl next year in order to hang onto his job and I am afraid the safest way for him to do that is to try and win ugly.We do not have the talent to run anything else and now he doesn't have the time to recruit players that can.

The defense is in good hands. (I think people may be surprised to find it better next year than this year.) I think Shafer and Lester are preparing to deploy a run first, possession type offense. Control the clock, maintain field position and win the turnover battle. He also has a decent kicker now with range, which he didn't have the last two seasons, which only adds to the plan.

Shafer is who he is, like all of us, a product of his experiences. The best program he was a part of was Stanford and his worst experience was Michigan under Rich Rod. That says a lot to me. He tried the Rich Rod thing and now I think he will return to his smash mouth Midwestern roots and run something akin to Stanford. All the earmarks are there.

It is what it is and all we can do is hope that they do a good job running whatever they come up with.

he probably sees stanford at 4th in defense and drools. especially after they wiped out the UCLA N zone. (don't get me started on that - how is that the version of the no huddle spread that McDonald says YES THAT'S THE TICKET they have the same silly view of the bubble that mcf'it did, that's where he learned it)

77th in offense is good enough for him

 

[TheCusian]

theyre teaching this year. theyre teaching people about plays. about how 1 or 2 plays can make all the difference in the world. if you get 100 plays in a game, and you do the job on 98, but not on 2...you lose. frustrating as all hell.

I hear ya. As an Eagles fan I can't give you too much compassion - but we did stink at the end of Reid's tenure.

Your WR is the real deal though. Greatness.

 

[Crusty]

Sure it is. You could be 100% in redzone efficiency, if you don't get there that often it doesn't matter.

It all matters.

Yes, but some matter more than others.
We were ties for 107th in reaching the RZ - 35 times. That is the same as BC and 2 more than Maryland. BC converted 22-35 for TD's or 62% of the time and Maryland was 22-for 33 or 66.7%. BC scored 8 more TD than us and Maryland, with fewer opportunities, scored 8 more.

SU was 125th out of 128 in RZ TD conversions - we converted 14 of 35 for 40%.

The single most important thing we could have done better this year was RZ TD conversions. The middle of the ACC was about 60%. Had we just done average we would have scored 7 more TDs. That's an extra 4 points per game.

Converted means more than just getting there.

 

[TheCusian]

all ears for other offenses like that, google away

Patriots revolutionized the 12 personnel with Gronk and Hernandez in 2012. Putting two pass catching TE's in a system that you can run out of really puts D's I a bad spot. Here's a few nuggets from my googling:

"One of the benefits of utilizing "12" personnel is the ability for the offense to utilize a variety of base and spread formations without shuttling different personnel into the game. The H-back plays the role of a fullback, wide receiver or second tight end in the package, aligning in various spots within the formation to create problems for the defense. Offensive coordinators are tapping into that versatility by featuring a variety of open formations with the tight end deployed as quasi-receivers. By opening the formation, the offensive coordinator makes it easy for the quarterback to diagnose the coverage and creates potential mismatches in space.

 

[Millhouse]

Yes, but some matter more than others.
We were ties for 107th in reaching the RZ - 35 times. That is the same as BC and 2 more than Maryland. BC converted 22-35 for TD's or 62% of the time and Maryland was 22-for 33 or 66.7%. BC scored 8 more TD than us and Maryland, with fewer opportunities, scored 8 more.

SU was 125th out of 128 in RZ TD conversions - we converted 14 of 35 for 40%.

The single most important thing we could have done better this year was RZ TD conversions. The middle of the ACC was about 60%. Had we just done average we would have scored 7 more TDs. That's an extra 4 points per game.

Converted means more than just getting there.

it's a shame that they feel like they need to get rid of anything resembling mcdonald's offense just because mcdonald was so bad in the red zone

lester could be given a pass for not reaching the end zone because of injuries but once there, his offense was as bad if not worse.

Lester's RZ TD % is 34% worse than McDonalds FWIW (47% to 31%)

we get rid of McDonald over the red zone and keep lester despite it

 

[Millhouse]

Patriots revolutionized the 12 personnel with Gronk and Hernandez in 2012. Putting two pass catching TE's in a system that you can run out of really puts D's I a bad spot. Here's a few nuggets from my googling:

"One of the benefits of utilizing "12" personnel is the ability for the offense to utilize a variety of base and spread formations without shuttling different personnel into the game. The H-back plays the role of a fullback, wide receiver or second tight end in the package, aligning in various spots within the formation to create problems for the defense. Offensive coordinators are tapping into that versatility by featuring a variety of open formations with the tight end deployed as quasi-receivers. By opening the formation, the offensive coordinator makes it easy for the quarterback to diagnose the coverage and creates potential mismatches in space.

well thank you for making my point about big fast WR in TE bodies

lets talk about college football now

 

[OttoinGrotto]

it's a shame that they feel like they need to get rid of anything resembling mcdonald's offense just because mcdonald was so bad in the red zone

Yeah, it hurts. We had the right kind of idea.

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, it hurts. We had the right kind of idea.

minus the mazzone force feeding of screens as "extensions of the run game"

 

[Crusty]

Patriots revolutionized the 12 personnel with Gronk and Hernandez in 2012. Putting two pass catching TE's in a system that you can run out of really puts D's I a bad spot. Here's a few nuggets from my googling:

"One of the benefits of utilizing "12" personnel is the ability for the offense to utilize a variety of base and spread formations without shuttling different personnel into the game. The H-back plays the role of a fullback, wide receiver or second tight end in the package, aligning in various spots within the formation to create problems for the defense. Offensive coordinators are tapping into that versatility by featuring a variety of open formations with the tight end deployed as quasi-receivers. By opening the formation, the offensive coordinator makes it easy for the quarterback to diagnose the coverage and creates potential mismatches in space.

Don't forget a couple of things - Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.