Thamel gives some names

[HRE Otto IV]

Not really. First of all, defensively, whether run by White or Long, the 3-3-5 has been successful at SU. When TW was running it, the SU D was one of the tops in the nation. At Nebraska, White's D was top 15 nationally prior to Sat. And while the D may have taken a bit of step back under Long, it's still a solid unit and shows that the 3-3-5 does work at SU.

So if I'm JW and I see a defensive scheme that works well with the type of smaller, quicker athletes up front that Syracuse can regularly recruit, why would I want to scrap it? If Dino got one thing right, it was switching to the 3-3-5 - so there's no need to scrap it if it works. Obviously, White would continue using the now proven scheme, which is likely a signifigant part of TW's appeal to ADJW.

As far as Beck goes, he's still a mystery to me and I'm not sure it's accurate or necessarily fair his system "the same" as Babers "system" - if he had one. In someways you have to give Beck a Mulligan on this year's poor O bc of GS & CDRW's health/injuries, Sellers de-commit and Lamson's transfer - not to mention the o-line injuries. So btwn those things and the lack of receiving talent on the roster, the guy had his hand tied behind his back and hasn't really been able to show what he can do or what his "system" actually is, imho.

But I've been super impressed with how he's scraped together enough offense these last two weeks - with NO healthy QB - to win one game and compete valiantly in the loss. So if the theory - and that's all it is - that JW may be high on Beck, it could be based more on first hand observations at practice and his past accomplishments as an offensive coach before SU.

I just don't think anyone can assume Beck is a bad OC or dismiss his potential to be a good one based solely on this season. JW may or may not feel the same way - don't know but we shall soon see.

It is the same schemes. So how does White being HC instead of Dino improve things? If you want to keep the 3-3-5 you can by keeping Dino. No need to fire him.

If the problem on O was injuries, why fire Dino? Especially if you keep the same OC next year?

Is White going to get QB, WR, and OL kids that Dino could not?

White was part of no show teams in 2020-2022 so why will that change in 2024?

You are advocating keeping both the O and D the same. Wouldn't that also be the case with Dino as HC? So why fire him?

 

[SWC75]

Not better the 2nd time around. But better than what they had before him.

Petrino wasn’t better 2nd time around either at Louisville.

Johnny Majors 2nd stint at Pitt was hilarious.

Thinking maybe Mike Riley at Oregon State is one example?

Bill Snyder had a good second term at Kansas State

 

[cuseincincy]

He’s 62

Cignetti also hasn't recruited or coached a P5 football player in 13 years.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I'm warming up by the Candle:

• Lots of D-1 Head Coaching success.
• Good recruiter reputation (named the Mid-American Conference “Recruiter of the Year” by Snout.com in both 2011 and 2012).
• Good Offensive coach, which I think is harder to find than Defensive.

• If you can get Mullen, Fritz, or Cignetti, they would be excellent hires/slam dunks with proven sustained HC success.
• Lewis ditching his team to be an OC is a red flag to me.
• I do think White has good potential and would be a good recruiter-just missing the HC experience. High upside.
• I'm not as psyched about Chesney as others-If he was dominating like Leipold at D-3, I'd feel different.
• Longo is an interesting name that checks off some boxes.

If I'm Wildhack, I'm meeting with as many people as possible and looking for someone who appears extremely motivated with a good plan for success starting with discipline, continuing with recruiting, and ending with recruiting. This includes a plan for a solid staff.

Jason Candle - Football Coach - University of Toledo Athletics

Follow on Social Media Twitter: @coachcandle For the past 16 years, no one has embodied the success of Toledo Football more than Head Coach Jason Candle. Now...

utrockets.com

Me too, recruit Ohio and bring them to the 315. He's my #1, chesney, then lewis

 

[Cusefan69]

Qb is obviously a problem. Other than that the offense isn’t a rebuild. It needs to upgrade two OL and one Wr.

3 of the top 6 OL hardly played this year. At least two of three will be back. I think they need to bring in two more Wholabaugh/Bleich type transfers.

WR, getting a Tristan Jackson type would go a long way to fix WR. That and keeping Gadsden. The other guys aren’t ones but they can be solid enough.

Disagree Go. Until the Oline proves they are good it is a rebuild. I think Reed is a good piece to build off of. Maybe Cruz. To many ”ifs”. Especially if people want pro style and not run/pass guys at QB. So QB and need 2 of those. Oline. WR. if Allen leaves then RB.

 

[boog7]

I sincerely hope AD JW is not picking the coordinators.

Hoping for a complete break from Babers & his tree.

Not picking the coordinators. More like pairing strong, complimentary pieces together - if and only if - both men are willing to agree to such an arrangement. Legit talent is hard to find, hard to acquire and hard to keep. If you have access to and relationships with two talented coaches you believe in, then you try as best you can to keep them in house or get them back into the fold.

And imho, neither White or Beck come from the Babers "tree" - they both (presumably) came onto Wildhack's radar while working for DB. But Beck is from the Mendenhall/Anae tree and White is from the Rocky Long tree - and both trees have had a sustained success in D1 football.

 

[SWC75]

Don’t care about the name, I would like to see a successful coach. Name means little.

We can name him later.

 

[longtimefan]

My top choice is Brian Hartline.

I would be concerned about hiring coordinators from B1G blueblood programs--their recent history is not good, e.g. Ash and Durkin.

 

[CU44SE]

1 - I laugh at people that bring up coaches because they could bring some guys with them. So what happens when they graduate? I want the best coach, not who may bring some good players.

2- Unfortunately, Syracuse is a stepping stone school. But so are a lot of other schools. It’s unrealistic to hire someone and expect them to be here for 20 years. As someone else posted in this thread, Oklahoma lost a coach, ND lost a coach, Penn State lost a coach. Everyone loses coaches for one reason or another. If someone wants our coach, that means our coach was successful and did his job. Much easier to hire someone to keep something going rather than building it from the ground up.

3- The more I think about it, the more Sean Lewis excites me. Clearly Lewis was the mastermind of the offense. Once he left, we had one solid year of offense, Dungeys final year. Then it was all downhill from there. We hired Dino because of his offense. Little did we know, it was actually Lewis’ offense. Dino was lost without Lewis. Lewis also has head coaching experience. The guy did things at Kent State, arguably the worst MAC head coaching job and did things at Kent State that haven’t been done since the 60’s. Then he goes to Colorado and has his offense averaging 35 points per game before being demoted. Since then, only 21 points per game. So innovative offensive coach, it’s his offense, so offensive philosophy would always be here as long as he was, previous head coaching experience at an extremely difficult place to win.

4- Still all in on Chesney though. Guys lost 8 games in 3 years. Beat D1 teams UConn and UB. 12-1 last year, only loss was in playoffs to champion South Dakota state. Lost by 21, but was actually the closest playoff game they played. They won the championship against North Dakota state by 24!! This year 7-4 but 2 loses against D1 teams, at Army and at BC. Lost both by 3 points. He essentially as successful against these D1 teams as Dino was, and he’s at an FCS school!!!

 

[im4cuse]

Cignetti also hasn't recruited or coached a P5 football player in 13 years.

JMU would kick the chit out of Syracuse

 

[AZOrange]

It is the same schemes. So how does White being HC instead of Dino improve things? If you want to keep the 3-3-5 you can by keeping Dino. No need to fire him.

If the problem on O was injuries, why fire Dino? Especially if you keep the same OC next year?

Is White going to get QB, WR, and OL kids that Dino could not?

White was part of no show teams in 2020-2022 so why will that change in 2024?

You are advocating keeping both the O and D the same. Wouldn't that also be the case with Dino as HC? So why fire him?

Here is my thinking only…

When you get to this level the margin for error is tiny but the difference in results is huge. It’s the same reason a low end Tour player is closer to weekend club olayer than to Tiger or Rory.

Dino is not “that far off” in the grand scheme but it is the culmination of small issues that creates a pretty big gap in the results. So I think someone like Tony can hone in on some of these things and show a lot of improvement without reinventing the wheel.

That leaves aside the whole who wants to coach here stuff…which impacts the whole thing even more

 

[AZOrange]

1 - I laugh at people that bring up coaches because they could bring some guys with them. So what happens when they graduate? I want the best coach, not who may bring some good players.

2- Unfortunately, Syracuse is a stepping stone school. But so are a lot of other schools. It’s unrealistic to hire someone and expect them to be here for 20 years. As someone else posted in this thread, Oklahoma lost a coach, ND lost a coach, Penn State lost a coach. Everyone loses coaches for one reason or another. If someone wants our coach, that means our coach was successful and did his job. Much easier to hire someone to keep something going rather than building it from the ground up.

3- The more I think about it, the more Sean Lewis excites me. Clearly Lewis was the mastermind of the offense. Once he left, we had one solid year of offense, Dungeys final year. Then it was all downhill from there. We hired Dino because of his offense. Little did we know, it was actually Lewis’ offense. Dino was lost without Lewis. Lewis also has head coaching experience. The guy did things at Kent State, arguably the worst MAC head coaching job and did things at Kent State that haven’t been done since the 60’s. Then he goes to Colorado and has his offense averaging 35 points per game before being demoted. Since then, only 21 points per game. So innovative offensive coach, it’s his offense, so offensive philosophy would always be here as long as he was, previous head coaching experience at an extremely difficult place to win.

4- Still all in on Chesney though. Guys lost 8 games in 3 years. Beat D1 teams UConn and UB. 12-1 last year, only loss was in playoffs to champion South Dakota state. Lost by 21, but was actually the closest playoff game they played. They won the championship against North Dakota state by 24!! This year 7-4 but 2 loses against D1 teams, at Army and at BC. Lost both by 3 points. He essentially as successful against these D1 teams as Dino was, and he’s at an FCS school!!!

Lewis would not be a bad choice at all

 

[UpstateSM]

Give Chesney competitive NIL money to play with and we will turn into a wagon

 

[djorange1989]

http://wakeupcalldt.com/

Interesting list to say the least

This is the stupidest list ever

 

[phil77]

I do agree the recent struggles on offense and whatever the last two games were have soured the idea of bringing in a defensive head coach. Just seems that side of the ball is so far away that our head coach has to be super focused on that side of the ball. Seems like hiring a defense guy and getting our defense to play at a standard to win games is an easier task. That is why I will always lean offensively for a HC.

 

[djorange1989]

JMU would kick the chit out of Syracuse

Yeah this nonsense about Cignetti and his age and not coaching P5 guys, he is a great coach, but don’t think it will happen

 

[tep624]

http://wakeupcalldt.com/

Interesting list to say the least

Is he high?

 

[anomander]

Some of these names i am seeing proves that people don’t watch any other college football except Syracuse.

Others are just mind boggling. My top 3 so far are Lincoln Riley, Chip Kelly, and Manny Diaz.

 

[anomander]

A few potential reasons why:

• maybe ADJW thinks he sees a rising coaching star in TW and thinks he has what it takes to be a winning HC at SU - in spite of the program's acknowledged limitations.
• maybe ADJW also thinks he sees a rising star in Beck but doesn't think he's ready to take over the program yet - however, maybe JW would still like to keep Beck at SU and possibly pair him w/ TW. And since White and Beck have a history, maybe JW thinks both parties would be OK with that sort of pre-arranged Offense/Defense marriage btwn two talented, up-and-coming young coaches eager to make a name for themselves.
• maybe JW values White's intimate knowledge of the school, program/recruiting landscape and his family ties/New York roots. And maybe bc of those ties, TW has previously let it be known to JW that if the SU job ever became available, he'd definitely be interested.
• maybe the SU hierarchy - and JW himself - also place some value in having a minority HC; a potential edge in recruiting/program marketing. I'm sure it's not a deciding factor but it is probably viewed as a plus.
• maybe JW views a White/Beck tandem as a financially low risk/high reward pathway towards vastly upgrading the team's coaching, while also salvaging as best they can, a promising recruiting class - one of the best in years - and convincing the better players currently on the roster to stay on board.

Have no clue what ADJW is actually thinking of course - just pure SNF-watching conjecture.

Why would we want what we just had? It’s the same with the Autry hire. You don’t hire from within when a HC is let go because things are going well.

 

[bevosu]

A guy named Lance is almost 60? How is that possible. Based on first name alone I would’ve guessed he was 35.

lance alworth - Google Search

 

[corpjet]

Offense sells tickets and is exciting to watch.

We need both in the dome, we thought we had this in Dino to only find out it was the work of Sean Lewis.

I’m not opposed to Sean but a proven leader with an offensive mindset would be great. Chip Kelly is the ideal hire in this mold but it’s not a given he’s leaving UCLA

 

[tep624]

I have no idea what Davis can do or the incoming kid. It would be better if CDRW looked credible but if anything he’s gone backwards. It’s not a good situation, but solvable.

Bradford and Petry should be depth guys, not 12 game starters. That’s what killed the team. If that’s what they are next year the team will be much better.

You always need new starters, it’s the nature of the sport. But it’s not like they have to bring in 22 kids that can play in the ACC. If the three linemen who were hurt all year played 12 games this season looks much different.

I hope with whomever the new HC is that we get out of the obscure JUCO game. Those guys rarely amount to much.

 

[UpstateSM]

I hope with whomever the new HC is that we get out of the obscure JUCO game. Those guys rarely amount to much.

It can help you win lots of games in the P5 if you do it the right way like Kansas St. Have to know what you're doing though.

 

[tep624]

It can help you win lots of games in the P5 if you do it the right way like Kansas St. Have to know what you're doing though.

Most of the times these adds are very late adds after we’ve whiffed on other prospects. We added so many late JUCO’s this cycle out of nowhere that I lost count.

It’s more or less a statement that we need to recruit better.

 

[boog7]

It is the same schemes. So how does White being HC instead of Dino improve things? If you want to keep the 3-3-5 you can by keeping Dino. No need to fire him.

If the problem on O was injuries, why fire Dino? Especially if you keep the same OC next year?

Is White going to get QB, WR, and OL kids that Dino could not?

White was part of no show teams in 2020-2022 so why will that change in 2024?

You are advocating keeping both the O and D the same. Wouldn't that also be the case with Dino as HC? So why fire him?

No, if you're an AD and you like a particular defensive scheme as well as the Defensive Coordinator who ran said scheme, when you fire the coach who bought the DC & his scheme in, it's only logical to consider replacing the fired coach with the coach who impressed you. Maybe similar logic applies to Beck as well.

Why fire Dino? Have you not seen the last eight years of his losing, his head scratching coaching decisions and mostly mediocre recruiting? Did you miss all the embarrassing blow out losses on National TV? How many games did DB lose almost single-handedly bc of his poor clock management, his ill timed punts or FG attempts, drive killing or drive extending penalties bc of a lack of discipline on his teams? Babers was a nice man who represented SU well but he was a lousy coach with a terrible record and who offered zero upside moving forward - that's why you fire him.

I'm not advocating for keeping things "the same" - I'm simply speculating on why White might appeal to JW as a candidate.

IF Wildhack has taken a liking to the 3-3-5 D bc he thinks its a sustainable and effective scheme that fits SU-type athletes, he would logically consider and be attracted to a candidate like White who specializes in the defense he likes. And maybe JW sees other attributes in TW that lead him to believe TW can lead a winning program.

Different sport, different era but back in the day, the Lakers fired their well known coach and took a chance on Pat Riley who was a coaching nobody at the time and the rest is history. Riles did the same thing in Miami when he hired a little known former video asst. in Spoelstra. In both cases, the person in position to hire the unproven coaches saw something special in each man and then acted on their convictions.

If ADJW really sees something special in White, Beck, Nunzio or any other coaches he's worked with at SU, it's in the program's best interest to keep the most talented folks around. So imho, if JW has legitimate interest in TW (or whoever) it's because he's been convinced that they can be part of the revived, winning culture he's trying to establish with the coaching change.

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. If some talented, promising coaches happen to emerge from the ruins of the Babers era, they shouldn't be dismissed as potential good replacements for DB or fits on the next staff just because of it. And again, it's all message board speculation based on rumor, but if the reports of JW's high interest in White are accurate, then I'd have to believe that's Wildhack's take as well.