Thank God Duke lost.

[samspann1]

Had to make that one change. None of those players go to Duke because K does a bang up job at recruiting.

So why do players go there?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This thread got combined in a really weird way.

 

[SWC75]

Duke needed to foul to stop the clock and put the Spartans on the line, but they play such a clean game they couldn't possibly commit enough fouls in the final seconds to succeed.

Just a shame.

 

[MikeSU02]

JB is better than Coach K and Zion ain’t that good.

What a thread. Really should frame this one.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So why do players go there?

They want that Duke education.




Also, and maybe this has a little to do with it too, but their families get paid piles of Nike cash.

 

[jr4750]

Hey, unlike every other team, (sarcasm) Duke was emotional after their loss and got front page ESPN treatment to talk about it. The higher ups are ticked they can't market Zion anymore this season. Not letting go lightly, I guess.

Duke emotional after tourney run ends vs. MSU

 

[Alsacs]

Coach K got clowned by Izzo in this game.
JB clowned Izzo last year.

I honestly think if JB was coaching this Duke team he does better than K did.
K is an alltime great see his job in 2010 with that roster but he has been bad these past few years.

 

[SWC75]

Coach K got clowned by Izzo in this game.
JB clowned Izzo last year.

I honestly think if JB was coaching this Duke team he does better than K did.
K is an alltime great see his job in 2010 with that roster but he has been bad these past few years.

How do coaches get bad?

 

[CaptainJ]

How do coaches get bad?

Like the items in my fridge...if they've been there too long.

 

[Alsacs]

How do coaches get bad?

I am going to answer you but I don’t think it will change your opinion.

Do players have good games and bad games?
Coaches aren’t perfect either.
Coaches get bad when they don’t adjust to what the opponent is doing and take advantage of that.
Michigan State played tough man to man defense and always switched on picks.
Duke didn’t adjust to the Michigan State defense at all.
When Zion posted his defender up he scored and Michigan State couldn’t stop him.
However Zion didn’t take advantage of that till the second started and he scored Duke’s first 10 points in the second half.
Duke in the first half and pretty much the whole game outside those first 5 minutes in the second half played a two man isolation game of Zion and Barrett getting the ball behind the 3 point line and making them score 1 on 1.
Michigan State gameplan took advantage of the fact Duke thought it could just outtalent them.

 

[Newhouser]

off the coaching and paying - I loved the way the refs called the game yesterday. Duke wasn't in the bonus late in the second half either. Let em play

 

[shantydaze]

Had to make that one change. None of those players go to Duke because K does a bang up job at recruiting.

Correct. The campus and academics recruit themselves. . . . and, um, Brotherhood.

 

[SU94]

I am going to answer you but I don’t think it will change your opinion.

Do players have good games and bad games?
Coaches aren’t perfect either.
Coaches get bad when they don’t adjust to what the opponent is doing and take advantage of that.
Michigan State played tough man to man defense and always switched on picks.
Duke didn’t adjust to the Michigan State defense at all.
When Zion posted his defender up he scored and Michigan State couldn’t stop him.
However Zion didn’t take advantage of that till the second started and he scored Duke’s first 10 points in the second half.
Duke in the first half and pretty much the whole game outside those first 5 minutes in the second half played a two man isolation game of Zion and Barrett getting the ball behind the 3 point line and making them score 1 on 1.
Michigan State gameplan took advantage of the fact Duke thought it could just outtalent them.

Duke had about 4-5 second-half turnovers trying to get the ball into Zion inside. Now if you want to make the argument that K did not coach his kids well enough the last 5 months or draw up a good enough play to isolate Williamson on the blocks, I can certainly listen to that.

 

[Alsacs]

Duke had about 4-5 second-half turnovers trying to get the ball into Zion inside. Now if you want to make the argument that K did not coach his kids well enough the last 5 months or draw up a good enough play to isolate Williamson on the blocks, I can certainly listen to that.

I would say also K failed to develop Cam Reddish.
Reddish would have been a stud anywhere but he hasn’t developed at all and whatever NBA team takes him in the lottery will have an undeveloped player with upside.

 

[CaptainJ]

Duke had about 4-5 second-half turnovers trying to get the ball into Zion inside. Now if you want to make the argument that K did not coach his kids well enough the last 5 months or draw up a good enough play to isolate Williamson on the blocks, I can certainly listen to that.

Do you think K got Zion the ball enough when he lost against us?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Duke peaked in game 1. I think we can all agree with that. They never got better. Teams caught up to them.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I would say also K failed to develop Cam Reddish.
Reddish would have been a stud anywhere but he hasn’t developed at all and whatever NBA team takes him in the lottery will have an undeveloped player with upside.

How does a coach develop an 18 year old freshman in 5 months?

 

[SWC75]

I am going to answer you but I don’t think it will change your opinion.

Do players have good games and bad games?
Coaches aren’t perfect either.
Coaches get bad when they don’t adjust to what the opponent is doing and take advantage of that.
Michigan State played tough man to man defense and always switched on picks.
Duke didn’t adjust to the Michigan State defense at all.
When Zion posted his defender up he scored and Michigan State couldn’t stop him.
However Zion didn’t take advantage of that till the second started and he scored Duke’s first 10 points in the second half.
Duke in the first half and pretty much the whole game outside those first 5 minutes in the second half played a two man isolation game of Zion and Barrett getting the ball behind the 3 point line and making them score 1 on 1.
Michigan State gameplan took advantage of the fact Duke thought it could just outtalent them.

I haven't made up my mind on this subject so it doesn't need to 'change'.

The issue is: do coaches over the course of their careers go from good coaches to bad coaches? Recruiting is a separate issue- no one would say Coach K has become a bad recruiter. With JB the issue seems to be recruiting to fit your system over getting the best possible basketball talents.

The issue here is: do coaches stop making in-game adjustments as they get older? Izzo is no spring chicken himself. People think the Boeheim zone never changes but there are variations of it. he started using his current offense after coaching with D'Antonio in the Olympics and K started using zone after coaching with JB. I'm just not sold on the idea what an old coach can't adjust or make good in-game decisions. or that a young coach would be better at.

 

[Alsacs]

How does a coach develop an 18 year old freshman in 5 months?

You aren’t serious with this? I am not going to waste the board’s time answering this as you just want to debate me and I really don’t care to bother with this.
Cam Reddish hurt his development this year playing at Duke.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Cam Reddish hurt his development this year playing at Duke.

How?

 

[Alsacs]

How?

He went from being a player who had spent his entire life with the ball in his hands to player to player who stood in the corner and watched Zion and Barrett dominate the ball and shots.
Reddish was the third wheel who didn’t get the ball and wasn’t focal of the offense.
It was a terrible fit for him. At another school he gets the ball more and is able to create.
This is common sense stuff. He made a poor decision and didn’t get better this year.

 

[Conrad13]

Since Duke wasn't playing Syracuse yesterday, I feel like this take isn't as biased: Tyus Jones, Aaron Craft, and Jamie Dixon coached guards play by a different sent of rules on defense than everyone else in basketball.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

He went from being a player who had spent his entire life with the ball in his hands to player to player who stood in the corner and watched Zion and Barrett dominate the ball and shots.
Reddish was the third wheel who didn’t get the ball and wasn’t focal of the offense.
It was a terrible fit for him. At another school he gets the ball more and is able to create.
This is common sense stuff. He made a poor decision and didn’t get better this year.

What was Coach K supposed to do develop him in 5 months? Reddish averaged almost 14ppg. He’s going to be drafted in the Top 10 of the NBA draft. Is that bad for a freshman on a team with the #1 and #2 draft picks? Did coach K develop Zion and Barrett? Are freshmen supposed to be fully developed in 5 months?

 

[Bayside44]

What was Coach K supposed to do develop him in 5 months? Reddish averaged almost 14ppg. He’s going to be drafted in the Top 10 of the NBA draft. Is that bad for a freshman on a team with the #1 and #2 draft picks? Did coach K develop Zion and Barrett? Are freshmen supposed to be fully developed in 5 months?

The development stuff is overdone. There's one ball and finite amount of time, and two of the guys who command the shots basically play the same position.

 

[Alsacs]

What was Coach K supposed to do develop him in 5 months? Reddish averaged almost 14ppg. He’s going to be drafted in the Top 10 of the NBA draft. Is that bad for a freshman on a team with the #1 and #2 draft picks? Did coach K develop Zion and Barrett? Are freshmen supposed to be fully developed in 5 months?

Honestly if it was someone else I would continue this debate. You just want to debate me and I don’t care that much for this issue when it’s subjective and nobody’s mind is going to be changed.

You don’t think Reddish’s development was poor. That is fine I really don’t care what you think but it’s your opinion and it’s your right to that.

I think differently. Neither of us are right or wrong when it’s an opinion.