Thank God for Kentucky...

[HOFCeluck]

Since when did being a Syracuse fan and not hating Kentucky with every ounce of your fiber become mutually exclusive?

 

[jncuse]

John Calipari is a true martyr.

He takes kids, transform them into NBA athletes while ensuring they not only excel in their classes but during their short time at Kentucky develop academically to be the leaders of tomorrow.

And despite all this he gets chastised by jealous rogues and simpletons. For shame, for shame!

 

[longtimefan]

John Calipari is a true martyr.

He takes kids, transform them into NBA athletes while ensuring they not only excel in their classes but during their short time at Kentucky develop academically to be the leaders of tomorrow.

And despite all this he gets chastised by jealous rogues and simpletons. For shame, for shame!

I'm in dire need of the Heath Ledger/Joker photo.

 

[jncuse]

If Virginia had not blown that lead against Duke about a month ago, I think there could have been some great conversation as to who is better. The momentum would have built for Virginia.

It would have been a good story to see 2 power conference teams take undefeated records into March. Two teams that are in certain ways polar opposites, but rely on the same thing... historically outstanding defences. The adjusted defensive efficiency of both schools is the best in the last 10 years.

 

[Orangezoo]

Where did I say that UK doesn't cheat? I'll wait patiently for your answer.

Sorry to keep you waiting so long dear...

My response was partially to you and partially to the rest on here stating UK is clean. Pardon the lack of multiple quotations while I find a few minutes here and there between working all day. With that said your rebuttal was simply I stated everyone cheats and that then exonerates SU which is completely inaccurate.

The thing with the UK argument and when you plug SU into the conversation of dirty vs clean you have to factor tenure in. Boeheim has been affilliated with Syracuse University for a half a century. He laid the foundation for the program that it is now. In all that time the number of indiscretions has been small when you consider his tenure. A 10 year investigation found some concerning things that most were self reported and had been remediated already. That is not a get out of jail free but it is hardly the grounds for dismissal crap some are throwing out there.

Then you have UK. A program that really struggled once Pitino left. A program whose success and homecourt is associated with a blatant racist be it different times or not when he was in charge. You have the tubby smith period then the Billy Gillespie disaster and then all the sudden who comes to town but the guy who has managed to walk away from two programs where final fours were vacated at nearly the same time. Calipari comes to UK and then recruits all the sudden love UK again and it becomes the premier place for college hoops. A stand up guy like Billy Donovan didn't want the job. So in such a short time he manages to somehow just create a powerhouse again? While doing nothing different than the rest of the college hoops world?

Add to that all the affiliations he brings alongside vouching for more financial support for the "kids". Immediately you had the Enes Kanter ordeal, the concerns over John Wall's handlers, the benefits provided to Bledsoe and then the Anthony Davis 200k check that was.. but it wasn't. Somehow none of that whirlwind of shady activity instituted an NCAA investigation. Follow that with the 2013 hiring of Rachel Newman Baker. Since her hiring there has not been a single peep regarding any possible issues despite more and more top 10 recruits deciding to choose UK.

The moral here is don't self report. But it is totally unrealistic to say SU and UK both take the same approach to their program's success when it comes to breaking the rules. It is common sense really. If it seems too good to be true... it likely is.

 

[JarHeadJim]

Thank God for Ebola and AIDS!

The dumbest thing I have ever posted on this board.

But I will never post thank God for Kentucky.

 

[JarHeadJim]

Sorry to keep you waiting so long dear...

My response was partially to you and partially to the rest on here stating UK is clean. Pardon the lack of multiple quotations while I find a few minutes here and there between working all day. With that said your rebuttal was simply I stated everyone cheats and that then exonerates SU which is completely inaccurate.

The thing with the UK argument and when you plug SU into the conversation of dirty vs clean you have to factor tenure in. Boeheim has been affilliated with Syracuse University for a half a century. He laid the foundation for the program that it is now. In all that time the number of indiscretions has been small when you consider his tenure. A 10 year investigation found some concerning things that most were self reported and had been remediated already. That is not a get out of jail free but it is hardly the grounds for dismissal crap some are throwing out there.

Then you have UK. A program that really struggled once Pitino left. A program whose success and homecourt is associated with a blatant racist be it different times or not when he was in charge. You have the tubby smith period then the Billy Gillespie disaster and then all the sudden who comes to town but the guy who has managed to walk away from two programs where final fours were vacated at nearly the same time. Calipari comes to UK and then recruits all the sudden love UK again and it becomes the premier place for college hoops. A stand up guy like Billy Donovan didn't want the job. So in such a short time he manages to somehow just create a powerhouse again? While doing nothing different than the rest of the college hoops world?

Add to that all the affiliations he brings alongside vouching for more financial support for the "kids". Immediately you had the Enes Kanter ordeal, the concerns over John Wall's handlers, the benefits provided to Bledsoe and then the Anthony Davis 200k check that was.. but it wasn't. Somehow none of that whirlwind of shady activity instituted an NCAA investigation. Follow that with the 2013 hiring of Rachel Newman Baker. Since her hiring there has not been a single peep regarding any possible issues despite more and more top 10 recruits deciding to choose UK.

The moral here is don't self report. But it is totally unrealistic to say SU and UK both take the same approach to their program's success when it comes to breaking the rules. It is common sense really. If it seems too good to be true... it likely is.

You forgot their street agent World Wide Wes!

 

[Quazzum69]

The people that think Kentucky is cheating continue to amaze me. They don't have to cheat. It's a perpetual motion machine at this point.

So Kentucky has:

1) first/second best attendance in the country
2) probably the best b-ball facilities in the country (those "dorms" are ridiculous)
3) non-stop publicity from ESPN
4) a list of draft picks in the past 5 years that dwarfs most programs all time (probably including SU)
5) really good shot at championship each year (Cal's had an elite eight, a final four, a runner-up and championship in five seasons)

And people think Calipari does it with cheating only? :crazy:

 

[RoysRunts]

tell that to Memphis/UMASS and John Chaney Quazz

 

[Cowtown]

I've disliked Kentucky immensely for decades. Most of the Kentucky fans I've encountered are ignorant who are stumped to carry on a conversation that doesn't involve either basketball or horse racing. Look no further than how they treated Tubby Smith. I have never liked Calipari either, so when he went to Kentucky it was just like a "package deal" for me. I have no evidence to offer on whether he "cheats" any more, but I've been around long enough to know tigers don't change their stripes. Especially when there's so much money involved. I strongly suspect he's just better at not getting caught.

I accept that SU dropped the ball, so to speak. I also believe any reasonable person knows things similar to the recently exposed SU transgressions occur elsewhere. When the Kentucky incidents Orangezoo spoke of above are taken with Duke's chicanery and compared to SU's transgressions, there does not seem to be any consistency in how they were investigated - if at all. All I am asking for is a level playing field and it starts with equality before the law. SU seems to be getting the red-headed step-child treatment, while the NCAA's media darlings are getting a "boys will be boys" pass. I would like to see the NCAA's lack of consistency on this exposed, but I don't think SU has enough support in the media, or around the NCAA. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[bpo57]

So your referencing ethnic pockets of cities, as opposed to the lower half of the Country? I just want to make sure that is your argument...

The original question was why do black players play in the south. My point was the south has come a long way and that those players are just as comfortable in the south as they are in the north. Do you disagree with that? I just want to make sure...

 

[bpo57]

Speaking of not reading, that is why I said it was a guess, I didn't look it up. I was making a point that almost every year he has been at Kentucky (thanks for letting me know how many years though) he has had the #1 recruiting class, with almost can't miss NBA players. The venom was a combination of this thread and your other post on Boeheim. It seems like you have nothing but negativity towards SU but can't wait to follow KU and their quest for perfection.

Wow you twisted a lot there. There have been numerous people on this board that have been far more critical of JB than me. We disagree on Calipari. I think he is a great coach. That doesn't mean I root for him or think he's a great guy. I don't. But when I offer my opinions I try to base them on reality rather than on emotion or rooting interest. I can root against somebody but still admit it when they're outstanding. Sorry to say, and I don't mean to indict everybody here, but too many times opinions here are based on out and out homerism or just blind emotion. That sheet gets old to me.

 

[bpo57]

I like you more than I used to back in the day--about three board incarnations ago--when we used to cross swords often. But then, I'm older and, I hope, wiser now; and you probably are, too.

I hear ya, longtimer. Even when we crossed swords I always respected your opinion cuz I know you know your stuff. I admit my board etiquette is not the best. I am opinionated, like most here, but what I tend to chafe against is the blind homerism - the we're wonderful/the best and they're evil/suck. I get sucked into those battles all the time.

 

[bpo57]

Sorry to keep you waiting so long dear...

My response was partially to you and partially to the rest on here stating UK is clean. Pardon the lack of multiple quotations while I find a few minutes here and there between working all day. With that said your rebuttal was simply I stated everyone cheats and that then exonerates SU which is completely inaccurate.

The thing with the UK argument and when you plug SU into the conversation of dirty vs clean you have to factor tenure in. Boeheim has been affilliated with Syracuse University for a half a century. He laid the foundation for the program that it is now. In all that time the number of indiscretions has been small when you consider his tenure. A 10 year investigation found some concerning things that most were self reported and had been remediated already. That is not a get out of jail free but it is hardly the grounds for dismissal crap some are throwing out there.

Then you have UK. A program that really struggled once Pitino left. A program whose success and homecourt is associated with a blatant racist be it different times or not when he was in charge. You have the tubby smith period then the Billy Gillespie disaster and then all the sudden who comes to town but the guy who has managed to walk away from two programs where final fours were vacated at nearly the same time. Calipari comes to UK and then recruits all the sudden love UK again and it becomes the premier place for college hoops. A stand up guy like Billy Donovan didn't want the job. So in such a short time he manages to somehow just create a powerhouse again? While doing nothing different than the rest of the college hoops world?

Add to that all the affiliations he brings alongside vouching for more financial support for the "kids". Immediately you had the Enes Kanter ordeal, the concerns over John Wall's handlers, the benefits provided to Bledsoe and then the Anthony Davis 200k check that was.. but it wasn't. Somehow none of that whirlwind of shady activity instituted an NCAA investigation. Follow that with the 2013 hiring of Rachel Newman Baker. Since her hiring there has not been a single peep regarding any possible issues despite more and more top 10 recruits deciding to choose UK.

The moral here is don't self report. But it is totally unrealistic to say SU and UK both take the same approach to their program's success when it comes to breaking the rules. It is common sense really. If it seems too good to be true... it likely is.

Other than being called dear I pretty much agree with you. I don't know all of the ins and outs of the UK story and as I said I'm not saying they do or don't cheat. How the hell do I know? I just don't like the default SU fan position being "look at UK". Let's get our own stuff together and not obsess with the other teams. Some how I'm being accused of being a JB basher when I actually fall somewhere in the middle. JB messed up but his reservoir of goodwill at SU was built up through many good deeds and he deserves to finish his career at SU on his terms.

 

[bpo57]

Thank God for Ebola and AIDS!

The dumbest thing I have ever posted on this board.

But I will never post thank God for Kentucky.

Looks like you read the headline but didn't read the post. Maybe it's just me but this tournament would be relatively boring were it not for the undefeated UK story.

 

[Paul OLeary]

Sorry to keep you waiting so long dear...

Then you have UK. A program that really struggled once Pitino left.

What? Do you even follow college basketball? Tubbs and UK won the National Championship over Utah in 1998 in his first year. He then the led Kentucky to a 16-o record in the SEC in 2003 and had a 760% winning percentage there. Oh the troubles they must have endured over those 7 years.

Good job by the way of stereotyping a whole state and a University based on the ignorant believes of one man from 7 decades ago.

 

[Cowtown]

What? Do you even follow college basketball? Tubbs and UK won the National Championship over Utah in 1998 in his first year. He then the led Kentucky to a 16-o record in the SEC in 2003 and had a 760% winning percentage there. Oh the troubles they must have endured over those 7 years.

Good job by the way of stereotyping a whole state and a University based on the ignorant believes of one man from 7 decades ago.

Surely you don't believe Adolph Rupp was the only, ... um ... racially biased person in Kentucky back then, do you?

 

[Paul OLeary]

Surely you don't believe Adolph Rupp was the only, ... um ... racially biased person in Kentucky back then, do you?

Obviously I don't. Just seems shallow when you have to reach back 7 decades for some old white guy to try and validate claims that UK is crooked.

 

[Orangezoo]

What? Do you even follow college basketball? Tubbs and UK won the National Championship over Utah in 1998 in his first year. He then the led Kentucky to a 16-o record in the SEC in 2003 and had a 760% winning percentage there. Oh the troubles they must have endured over those 7 years.

Good job by the way of stereotyping a whole state and a University based on the ignorant believes of one man from 7 decades ago.

wow .. way to totally fail in comprehending my post. Considering that one man is a symbol for UK basketball is my point. Not the whole state of kentucky. That is you saying that not me. And i have watched college hoops plenty bud. You sure do have the hots for ole UK. And aside from some moderate success the years with tubby were mostly down years. 98 was carryover from the Pitino era. And for someone so valiantly defending the cats you should know bbn considers those down years as well.

So anytime you wish to go down memory lane in college hoops im all in. Bring it on! All in good fun of course. Go cheer on your wildcats

 

[Orangezoo]

Other than being called dear I pretty much agree with you. I don't know all of the ins and outs of the UK story and as I said I'm not saying they do or don't cheat. How the hell do I know? I just don't like the default SU fan position being "look at UK". Let's get our own stuff together and not obsess with the other teams. Some how I'm being accused of being a JB basher when I actually fall somewhere in the middle. JB messed up but his reservoir of goodwill at SU was built up through many good deeds and he deserves to finish his career at SU on his terms.

Ha the dear comment was just the appropriate tongue in cheek rebuttal nothing more. UK just happens to be the poster boy right now but it certainly is not just "look at UK". It is as noted already about a need to level the playing field and having an objective approach to launching these investigations.

As for hating JB i dont see that. I think we should always expect more from the program but perspective is necessary here is all I am getting at. When ten years pulls up really just one ugly issue (Fab) alongside others already addressed you have to look at it from a distance and see how its nominal in the bigger picture. The report is scathing and collectively beats up SU and JB. When it is all thrown together like that its overwhelming at first and even I was going What through my first read before grounding myself a 2nd time through.

Surely UK will make the tourney more interesting. Personally between the NCAA's handling of things , the inconsistent officiating and the reduced quality of basketball we are seeing these past few years I am likely avoiding this year's march madness. Both from a rules and regulatory infrastructure college hoops needs some serious changes.

 

[Paul OLeary]

wow .. way to totally fail in comprehending my post. Considering that one man is a symbol for UK basketball is my point. Not the whole state of kentucky. That is you saying that not me. And i have watched college hoops plenty bud. You sure do have the hots for ole UK. And aside from some moderate success the years with tubby were mostly down years. 98 was carryover from the Pitino era. And for someone so valiantly defending the cats you should know bbn considers those down years as well.

So anytime you wish to go down memory lane in college hoops im all in. Bring it on! All in good fun of course. Go cheer on your wildcats

No need to go down memory lane with someone who can't remember the UK won the chip in 98 as I don't think I will learn anything from you. Because...

 

[longtimefan]

What? Do you even follow college basketball? Tubbs and UK won the National Championship over Utah in 1998 in his first year. He then the led Kentucky to a 16-o record in the SEC in 2003 and had a 760% winning percentage there. Oh the troubles they must have endured over those 7 years.

Good job by the way of stereotyping a whole state and a University based on the ignorant believes of one man from 7 decades ago.

It was an issue much more recently than that.

"The Most Important Game" , Texas Western vs. Kentucky, was in 1966. The subtext, under the all-black vs all-white teams on court, was the decades of racist history that Rupp and his program represented. And it lasted another 5 years plus beyond this. Hell, Alabama had a black player before Kentucky did.

And, of course, UK was involved in point shaving in the '40's-'50's, and the Fed Ex cash of the late '80's. The program was built on, and has continued to flourish due to, improprieties at the least and illegalities at the most. Just ask Bobby Knight about the UK program.

If you think that those boosters and the bourbon-coal-thoroughbred money have disappeared since Calipari arrived, you are kidding yourself.

 

[Orangezoo]

No need to go down memory lane with someone who can't remember the UK won the chip in 98 as I don't think I will learn anything from you. Because...

Lol at least have something even half witted to say before you try and walk away looking for a slow clap..

 

[Orangezoo]

It was an issue much more recently than that.

"The Most Important Game" , Texas Western vs. Kentucky, was in 1966. The subtext, under the all-black vs all-white teams on court, was the decades of racist history that Rupp and his program represented. And it lasted another 5 years plus beyond this. Hell, Alabama had a black player before Kentucky did.

And, of course, UK was involved in point shaving in the '40's-'50's, and the Fed Ex cash of the late '80's. The program was built on, and has continued to flourish due to, improprieties at the least and illegalities at the most. Just ask Bobby Knight about the UK program.

If you think that those boosters and the bourbon-coal-thoroughbred money have disappeared since Calipari arrived, you are kidding yourself.

exactly. Match made in heaven with Calipari.

 

[bpo57]

And up until a few years ago Virginia had a senator that was a member of the KKK when he was a younger man. Does that say something about that state or our country that he would rise to such power? Not sure what any of this has to do with UK basketball right now.