Thanks Red

[Brooky03]

Boeheim ran this program into the ground. If you can’t acknowledge that then you’re clearly mad. We have a chance to make the NCAAs AND win 20 games this year. In no sane evaluation is that remotely “a little better than last year”. The last time a Boeheim led SU team won 20 games in a season was FIVE YEARS AGO.

We’re a little better, probably. We’re certainly not a lot better.

 

[Dave]

The truth, unfortunately, is often painful. Especially in the context of hindsight.
*going by the standards he himself established for this program* JB (gradually, over the course of aprox 10 years) steered this thing into the ditch

this from one of JB's biggest cheerleaders, who often fought the torches-and-pitchforks hordes on here during those 10 years

I think, without getting into the very complex dynamics involved in coaching in this very different age, the point is why in a thread entitled “Thanks Red” are we going there? It’s gratuitous and ugly.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think, without getting into the very complex dynamics involved in coaching in this very different age, the point is why in a thread entitled “Thanks Red” are we going there? It’s gratuitous and ugly.

To show what the baseline is? Should we evaluate Red against Calipari? Pitinio at St. Johns in 2023-24?

We don't have to pretend the JAB didn't exist and that from 2015 to 2022 it was a bumpy ride on a downward trajectory. It's OK.

 

[Eric15]

We are a little better than last year. We're the same as two years ago.

Two years ago was the losing season. I don't think we're that bad. I see this as a 1997/2002-esque NIT team.

 

[Eric15]

lol? 2 mediocre years after a Sweet 16 appearance three years ago and building prestige through countless tourney appearances and deep tourney runs is running the product into the ground?

We haven't contended for a conference championship in one full decade. This is our conference record for the past 10 years. It's much more than "two mediocre years."

 

[djorange1989]

We haven't contended for a conference championship in one full decade. This is our conference record for the past 10 years. It's much more than "two mediocre years."

View attachment 236877

Yep those 2 Sweet 16 runs and the great Final 4 run don’t change what went on overall the last 10 years under JB, culminating in us being a stale and mediocre program. No one, Red, Pitino or anyone else, is fixing that in one year, even with the portal at their disposal

 

[atlanticuse]

the NET and rule changes also make it harder for a team like ours (has been) to even get to the dance, to make a run at S16 or better.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Yep those 2 Sweet 16 runs and the great Final 4 run don’t change what went on overall the last 10 years under JB, culminating in us being a stale and mediocre program. No one, Red, Pitino or anyone else, is fixing that in one year, even with the portal at their disposal

Yep. I like what I've seen from Red so far overall.

 

[Dave]

To show what the baseline is? Should we evaluate Red against Calipari? Pitinio at St. Johns in 2023-24?

We don't have to pretend the JAB didn't exist and that from 2015 to 2022 it was a bumpy ride on a downward trajectory. It's OK.

Thanks Red!? This year has been a bumpy ride on a questionable trajectory. We have arguably one of the most talented back courts in the country. The “deep bench” has devolved into guys being run ragged. For more years than are remembered we overachieved against all odds. Or always second tier recruiting resulted in top tier results. Pretend he doesn’t exist? No, just don’t talk about what he CREATED in creating excuses. Nobody knows about Red yet. We know about Boeheim.

 

[SUFan44]

You forgot Westry. And you’re not booting a lot of guys who play ten minutes a game and finding better guys who are willing to play 10 mpg. I can see 2 of our centers transferring, but not 3.

Yes I forgot Westry. Don’t know how good he is going to be after the injuries he has dealt with. But we shall see.

Also I wholeheartedly disagree with your other point. You are booting guys who are not good enough, as you should be able to find better. Period.

The guys I listed are below average ACC players. We have too many of them. Way too many.

 

[Millhouse]

Two years ago was the losing season. I don't think we're that bad. I see this as a 1997/2002-esque NIT team.

Everyone hates SRS but i still think it's a better measure than the emotions of people tired of the zone.

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I'm not sure if they cap the margin of victory the way they do on the football side. Getting blown out a few times might be dragging down their SRS

two years ago, we averaged 2.3 points more than opposition. This year, we average 2.9 points more.

Two years ago was the "my namesake has got this" year and they lost so many close ones because of it

.500 in conference. we were 84-82 in conference the previous nine years.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think Red is doing a fantastic job, given the tools he inherited, the injuries to someone I am sure he was counting on. He is taking square pegs, built for zone and slow tempo ball, and imprinting his style.
Now he can go to recruits and say, “(t)his is how we play”, not “if you come here, this is how we will play”. That will reap benefits.
Bad shooting nights happen. With average FT shooting the first half, we probably have a 15-16 point lead early in the 2nd half. Then it’s a different game. (Also, compared to first half, the refs swallowed their whistles on our drives to the basket.)

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I don't care how long they keep him. You know what i mean about patience, I have my doubts about Red and I know my doubts don't matter.

we're shooting 29% from 3 in conference now. Something is wrong with your approach if you're sub 30 after 8 games.

Maybe it’s as simple as our “shooters” can’t shoot. That’s on the prior regime, not Red. (You would think the best recruiting class in JB's career could shoot.) By all accounts, our incoming guys can shoot.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe it’s as simple as our “shooters” can’t shoot. That’s on the prior regime, not Red. (You would think the best recruiting class in JB's career could shoot.) By all accounts, our incoming guys can shoot.

I'll believe it when i see it. everyone's lights out in high school games that no one watches. and then they get here and they're flapping their arms everywhere like they're trying to fly away

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes I forgot Westry. Don’t know how good he is going to be after the injuries he has dealt with. But we shall see.

Also I wholeheartedly disagree with your other point. You are booting guys who are not good enough, as you should be able to find better. Period.

The guys I listed are below average ACC players. We have too many of them. Way too many.

What quality of player are you getting to replace the 10 mpg that Cuffe and McLeod play? Certainly not a difference maker.

 

[Brooky03]

I think Red is doing a fantastic job, given the tools he inherited, the injuries to someone I am sure he was counting on. He is taking square pegs, built for zone and slow tempo ball, and imprinting his style.
Now he can go to recruits and say, “(t)his is how we play”, not “if you come here, this is how we will play”. That will reap benefits.
Bad shooting nights happen. With average FT shooting the first half, we probably have a 15-16 point lead early in the 2nd half. Then it’s a different game. (Also, compared to first half, the refs swallowed their whistles on our drives to the basket.)

I wouldn’t say they’re built for slow tempo ball. We have pretty good athletes. Slow tempo was a thing we ended up with at times but never really purpose built.

Tangential to your point, I know.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Yep those 2 Sweet 16 runs and the great Final 4 run don’t change what went on overall the last 10 years under JB, culminating in us being a stale and mediocre program. No one, Red, Pitino or anyone else, is fixing that in one year, even with the portal at their disposal

Yes, but the training wheels come off in year 2. Need to see a marked upward trajectory and NCAA bid next year at a minimum. it’s depressing to even consider the thought of missing the dance 3 consecutive years let alone four.

 

[djorange1989]

Yes, but the training wheels come off in year 2. Need to see a marked upward trajectory and NCAA bid next year at a minimum. it’s depressing to even consider the thought of missing the dance 3 consecutive years let alone four.

Agree 100%

 

[kcsu]

Maybe it’s as simple as our “shooters” can’t shoot. That’s on the prior regime, not Red. (You would think the best recruiting class in JB's career could shoot.) By all accounts, our incoming guys can shoot.

Jim says things.

 

[two3zone]

We haven't contended for a conference championship in one full decade. This is our conference record for the past 10 years. It's much more than "two mediocre years."

View attachment 236877

We’ve been over 500 3 times in 10 years. Whomever can defend this is an idiot. Idiots, don’t respond I won’t listen just give me a dislike and I’m sure it’ll confirm the usual suspects.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

What quality of player are you getting to replace the 10 mpg that Cuffe and McLeod play? Certainly not a difference maker.

That assumes they are “quality players.” Depends on definition. In a good team, they are end of rotation guys. Maybe they develop.

 

[Eric15]

Everyone hates SRS but i still think it's a better measure than the emotions of people tired of the zone.

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Check out the Syracuse Orange College Basketball History, Stats, Records, Polls, Leaders and More College Basketball Stats at Sports-Reference.com

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I'm not sure if they cap the margin of victory the way they do on the football side. Getting blown out a few times might be dragging down their SRS

two years ago, we averaged 2.3 points more than opposition. This year, we average 2.9 points more.

Two years ago was the "my namesake has got this" year and they lost so many close ones because of it

.500 in conference. we were 84-82 in conference the previous nine years.

I actually don't mind SRS at all. I don't think I realized that last year's SOS was by far the softest we played since the early 80s.