That mediocre bound for .500 Northwestern team

[Millhouse]

Understood, but they were unlucky versus Michigan and Neb. They are also beating PSU in the 4th quarter. For me given the parameters and limitations of NW football, Coach Fitz is one of the better coaches in football. Guy does more with less year after year, gets to bowl games and competes every week, all you can ask for

Fitz's record 6-6, 9-4, 8-5, 7-6, 6-7, 9-3, not too shabby for Northwestern football. Syracuse would be quite happy with that, I would

i think he's doing a great job too. i was thinking the other day that maybe football is so popular because of the fact that a couple breaks going your way makes all the difference in the world. basketball and baseball and even hockey, you play so many games, luck falls away.

NW defense is better than I thought it would be

 

[bnoro]

I give NW credit for taking advantage of the many opportunites given them. Smart play by their qb to fall and go boom...Claude Lemieux type of move.

Claude Lemieux is up there with Ulf Samuelsson as one of the biggest pieces of to ever play the game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

it is so painfully obvious an overall record of 9-3/10-2 playing crap is more attractive than 7-5 and playing all those teams to a bowl committee.

Yup. Pretty much completely reversed from hoops. I'd like to see hoops play a little more rigorous schedule and football play a lighter schedule.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

i think he's doing a great job too. i was thinking the other day that maybe football is so popular because of the fact that a couple breaks going your way makes all the difference in the world. basketball and baseball and even hockey, you play so many games, luck falls away.

NW defense is better than I thought it would be

Agreed, I think Fitz coaches his kids to compete every week and be mentally tough out as most games they probably are a bit overmatched talent wise, much easier said than done. Also consistency for programs like these makes a huge difference, recruit program kids, coach them up and win games.

 

[SmilinBob]

Yup. Pretty much completely reversed from hoops. I'd like to see hoops play a little more rigorous schedule and football play a lighter schedule.

You know, I really like what Boeheim does with his scheduling. Why? He won't play his bench what so ever in tough games so he needs this other ones to see how the inexperienced guys do...he's too competitive and stubborn to do otherwise. Plus, there's an actual playoff in hoop and college football is a skin deep beauty contest.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't understand people that scream luck in football. We were lucky to win two games in the final seconds. Or does that not apply?

we were outgained twice this year (pitt and USF - two wins!). if you want to say we were lucky against USF and Missouri because our offense did well at the end, you shouldn't ignore all the other losses where we outgained the other team from scrimmage.

our record would be a lot better if we weren't unlucky and if our special teams didn't fail us. i think it's a mix of both

 

[Chip]

It's something people say after you lose a game like that.

This board is such a sensitive place sometimes. With a long memory.

 

[NineOneSeven]

we were outgained twice this year (pitt and USF - two wins!). if you want to say we were lucky against USF and Missouri because our offense did well at the end, you shouldn't ignore all the other losses where we outgained the other team from scrimmage.

our record would be a lot better if we weren't unlucky and if our special teams didn't fail us. i think it's a mix of both

It works both ways. Hence why I don't think luck has anything to do with it.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't understand people that scream luck in football. We were lucky to win two games in the final seconds. Or does that not apply?

There was nothing about those two drives that were a result of luck.

 

[GoSU96]

They are medicore, just like buttgers.

They went 9-3 playing in the B10 and playing SU, Vandy, and BC out of conference.

Rutgers is 100th in total offense and a product of their schedule.

Not comparable at all.

 

[Millhouse]

There was nothing about those two drives that were a result of luck.

agree. we have a great offense that runs 2 minute drills all the time. rolling up yards fast is lucky at the end of a game but not in the middle?

luck is bad calls and a running back not realizing the pass was backwards.

 

[NineOneSeven]

There was nothing about those two drives that were a result of luck.

My point is, what classifies something as luck? If you're going to sit here and say such play that went against us was unlucky, you've got to look at the other side of it too. Where's the line drawn between luck and simply something happening because of the nature of the game?

 

[NineOneSeven]

agree. we have a great offense that runs 2 minute drills all the time. rolling up yards fast is lucky at the end of a game but not in the middle?

luck is bad calls and a running back not realizing the pass was backwards.

I'd say the only time luck truly applies is blatantly horrible reffing calls (Extra point against Toledo), weather affecting a kick/catch, and when a ball is freefalling and happens to bounce a certain way in play or out of play. IMO, everything else is simple a result of the speed/type of game.

 

[RF2044]

agree. we have a great offense that runs 2 minute drills all the time. rolling up yards fast is lucky at the end of a game but not in the middle?

luck is bad calls and a running back not realizing the pass was backwards.

If only Jerome Smith had picked up that ball instead of just watching it bounce on the turf...

 

[SmilinBob]

agree. we have a great offense that runs 2 minute drills all the time. rolling up yards fast is lucky at the end of a game but not in the middle?

luck is bad calls and a running back not realizing the pass was backwards.

Maybe, but is it luck that the NW kid figured it out and went after the ball? Luck would have had the ball stuck on the NW kids foot and he ran to the end zone to say hi to his 10 fans in the corner.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

There was nothing about those two drives that were a result of luck.

Agreed, we lost the NW game to what I consider a peer program. People talking about luck, etc etc, it's football, its sports. In addition, as I have stated NW was winning in the 4th versus every one of the 3 games they lost, they lace them up and come to play, they are a reflection of the approach their coach takes as we are ours. I like both guys, they are both very good coaches, they understand their programs limitations and put a good product on the field. As does Bill O'Brien from Penn St. Good coaches

 

[wfschrec]

I was one of those guys ... and the NW win over Michigan State has proven me wrong. But not for their upset of Michigan State they would have been a very mediocre 4-4 in a VERY down Big Ten this year. As it was they were 5-3, without having to face Ohio State or Wisconsin. (with how underwhelming the Big Ten was this year, it is not a certainty that NW loses to either). Good year for NW indeed, but don't get too carried away.

MSU is severely overrated ... as is the rest of the B1G ... based on how MSU finished I would say its far from an upset.

 

[Millhouse]

Agreed, we lost the NW game to what I consider a peer program. People talking about luck, etc etc, it's football, its sports. In addition, as I have stated NW was winning in the 4th versus every one of the 3 games they lost, they lace them up and come to play, they are a reflection of the approach their coach takes as we are ours. I like both guys, they are both very good coaches, they understand their programs limitations and put a good product on the field. As does Bill O'Brien from Penn St. Good coaches

i think luck matters more in football only because there are fewer games.

NBA basketball has the least luck. lots of possessions, lots of games. best team usually wins
MLB next. they have the most games but they screw it up with short playoff series in the cold
I'm torn between hockey and football. So few games in football where hockey has a million but hockey has turned into this stupid random plinko game where you throw it at the next and hope it deflects off someones nuts into the net.
i think people like luck in football but don't like randomness in hockey (if there's a difference between luck and randomness)

not sure where college basketball fits. 3 point and a series of one game playoffs make it much more dependent on luck.

 

[bnoro]

i think luck matters more in football only because there are fewer games.

NBA basketball has the least luck. lots of possessions, lots of games. best team usually wins
MLB next. they have the most games but they screw it up with short playoff series in the cold
I'm torn between hockey and football. So few games in football where hockey has a million but hockey has turned into this stupid random plinko game where you throw it at the next and hope it deflects off someones nuts into the net.
i think people like luck in football but don't like randomness in hockey (if there's a difference between luck and randomness)

not sure where college basketball fits. 3 point and a series of one game playoffs make it much more dependent on luck.

In hockey the best teams usually win, the issue is that there is so much parity (especially in the playoffs) that when an 8 seed advances people think it's luck. It's just the gap is so small between 1-8 and one player being out can make such an impact. That's why it's so fun to watch.

 

[wfschrec]

In hockey the best teams usually win, the issue is that there is so much parity (especially in the playoffs) that when an 8 seed advances people think it's luck. It's just the gap is so small between 1-8 and one player being out can make such an impact. That's why it's so fun to watch.

Wait ... wait ... wait ... they still actually play hockey?

 

[bnoro]

Wait ... wait ... wait ... they still actually play hockey?

Hey...

 

[Opus]

I'm not one for looking back and saying 'what if'. What's done is done. We are playing them next year, right? Pay back time. Go 'Cuse!

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

MSU is severely overrated ... as is the rest of the B1G ... based on how MSU finished I would say its far from an upset.

Hindsight is 20/20 my friend. Michigan State was expected to be one of the top teams in the country and ranked accordingly (in the top 10) at the beginning of this year. The Spartans returned a significant portion of a very talented defense. Their QB/WR play was simply atrocious and they fell from their "house of cards" preseason/early season rankings.

Was Michigan State severely overrated? ABSOLUTELY!
Was the Big Ten as a whole serverly overrated coming into the season? ABSOLUTELY
Are the Big Ten teams currently severely overrated? ABSOLUTELY

***But let's make one thing certain - Michigan State was a 7.5 point favorite to win its home game against Northwestern on November 17th (meaning the books had an entire season to see how poorly per preseason expectations the Spartans played, yet STILL favored them to beat a plucky 7-3 Wildcat team at the time) and thus it indeed was an upset.***

BTW - Let's watch and see how many times the Big East champion in Louisville gets blamed for allowing the atrocity that is Northern Illinois (sarcasm) to play in a BCS game, yet the Big Ten's champion is equally to blame for an "outsider" team being in the BCS as Wisconsin's unranked status attests.

 

[wfschrec]

Hindsight is 20/20 my friend. Michigan State was expected to be one of the top teams in the country and ranked accordingly (in the top 10) at the beginning of this year. The Spartans returned a significant portion of a very talented defense. Their QB/WR play was simply atrocious and they fell from their "house of cards" preseason/early season rankings.

Was Michigan State severely overrated? ABSOLUTELY!
Was the Big Ten as a whole serverly overrated coming into the season? ABSOLUTELY
Are the Big Ten teams currently severely overrated? ABSOLUTELY

***But let's make one thing certain - Michigan State was a 7.5 point favorite to win its home game against Northwestern on November 17th (meaning the books had an entire season to see how poorly per preseason expectations the Spartans played, yet STILL favored them to beat a plucky 7-3 Wildcat team at the time) and thus it indeed was an upset.***

BTW - Let's watch and see how many times the Big East champion in Louisville gets blamed for allowing the atrocity that is Northern Illinois (sarcasm) to play in a BCS game, yet the Big Ten's champion is equally to blame for an "outsider" team being in the BCS as Wisconsin's unranked status attests.

And Louisville was favored to beat us in the Dome ... except we manhandled them and honestly if you look at who Louisville played and how Louisville played I don't consider it an upset ... look 7.5 points is great but just because some jackoff in Vegas says its 7.5 means nothing to me. Just because they were too stupid to figure out by mid November MSU was overrated isn't my problem nor should I use the spread when I evaluate whether I see a game as an upset or not ... an upset to me is a game where I truly feel there is a definitive winner and I am pleasantly surprised ... and I know the spread indicated otherwise but if those guys told me that they honestly felt MSU was a prohibitive favorite means either a.) they are liars or b.) they have no business picking certain games. You are talking about an MSU team that lost to Iowa of all squads ... an Iowa Herbstriet even called one of the worst BCS teams out there ... period. I agree with you on the other stuff however.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

I hear you, but Vegas (not done scrub dude) is not in the business of losing money. An upset by any reasonable definition is when one team is favored over another team yet loses. In this case we aren't talking about a measly point or two. It was a TD plus.

I feel safe in stating that I stand correct in my initial comment re: NW win over Sparty was an upset, notwithstanding your personal metric on how to determine upsets.

Peace


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