The 25 Most Successful College Basketball Programs Of The 64-Team Era

[Lawrinson14]

Btw, the under and over achieving by seed stuff is crap. Every single year there are teams seeded incorrectly or get some advantage in some way. It's one thing to be a 2 and lose to a 15, but if a 4 loses to a 6, big deal.

Speaking of over-achieving and under-achieving, I was reading a post on r/collegebasketball the other day entitled something along the lines of "Most under-achieving programs." It was interesting to see that the number one response was Pitt and the number 2 was Syracuse.

So regardless as to whether or not it is true, the national perception is that Syracuse is a perennial under-achiever.

By the way, did you guys know that Pitt has been been to 25 NCAA tournaments and has 26 NCAA loses? They lost twice in the 1957 tournament since there was a 3rd place game.

 

[orange2win]

I never claimed we overachieved those years. I was simply refuting your statement: "Move those two over to the underachieved list where they belong...."
Since you bring up 2004... assuming we were accurately seeded (#5), that means we were considered somewhere somewhere between the 17th and 20th best team in the tournament. So technically, making the Sweet 16 would be overachieving.
Unrealistically high expectations produces fans who are impossible to please.

2004 is the exact same team that won the National Championship the year before. Minus a one and done kid who moved on and Duany, (but all now Srs. and Jrs). I don't think I am being "unrealistic" when I think they should have been able to beat a team (Alabama) that never cracked the Top 25 all year. Certainly 2004 was not one of our overachieving teams.

 

[Briancuse]

Name me the time that we lost to a team that was insanely underseeded?

 

[bozophobe]

It doesn't suck to be us. It just seems like it at the moment.

We are like the guy with a car that works fine but his neighbor has just bought his third new one since our guy got his.

But our car is 11 years old now, and is leaking fluids everywhere. And mechanic Boeheim installed brake pads this year when what the car needed was a tune up. And eventually a new engine will be needed.

 

[Alsacs]

Te

Btw, the under and over achieving by seed stuff is crap. Every single year there are teams seeded incorrectly or get some advantage in some way. It's one thing to be a 2 and lose to a 15, but if a 4 loses to a 6, big deal.

Tell me how you want programs to be judged and I will crunch the numbers that way and give the results.
Final Four Since the 1985 64 team era
1985 Final Four Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Memphis
1986 Louisville, Duke, Kansas, LSU
1987 Indiana, Syracuse, UNLV, Providence
1988 Kansas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Duke
1989 Michigan, Seton Hall, Illinois, Duke
1990 UNLV, Duke, Georgia Tech, Arkansas
1991 Duke, Kansas, UNLV, North Carolina
1992 Duke, Michigan, Indiana, Cincinnati
1993 North Carolina, Michigan, Kansas, Kentucky
1994 Arkansas, Duke, Arizona, Florida
1995 UCLA, Arkansas, Oklahoma State, North Carolina
1996 Kentucky, Syracuse, UMass, Mississippi State
1997 Arizona, Kentucky, North Carolina, Minnesota
1998 Kentucky, Utah, North Carolina, Stanford
1999 UConn, Duke, Michigan State, Ohio State
2000 Michigan State, Florida, Wisconsin, North Carolina
2001 Duke, Arizona, Michigan State, Maryland
2002 Maryland, Indiana, Oklahoma, Kansas
2003 Syracuse, Kansas, Texas, Marquette
2004 UConn, Georgia Tech, Duke, Oklahoma State
2005 North Carolina, Illinois, Louisville, Michigan State
2006 Florida, UCLA, LSU, George Mason
2007 Florida, Ohio State, Georgetown, UCLA
2008 Kansas, Memphis, North Carolina, UC LA
2009 North Carolina, Michigan State, UConn, Villanova
2010 Duke, Butler, West Virginia, Michigan State
2011 UConn, Butler, Kentucky, VCU
2012 Kentucky, Kansas, Ohio state, Louisville
2013 Louisville, Michigan, Syracuse, Wichita State
2014 UConn, Kentucky, Florida, Wisconsin

 

[rrlbees]

Te

Tell me how you want programs to be judged and I will crunch the numbers that way and give the results.
Final Four Since the 1985 64 team era
1985 Final Four Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Memphis
1986 Louisville, Duke, Kansas, LSU
1987 Indiana, Syracuse, UNLV, Providence
1988 Kansas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Duke
1989 Michigan, Seton Hall, Illinois, Duke
1990 UNLV, Duke, Georgia Tech, Arkansas
1991 Duke, Kansas, UNLV, North Carolina
1992 Duke, Michigan, Indiana, Cincinnati
1993 North Carolina, Michigan, Kansas, Kentucky
1994 Arkansas, Duke, Arizona, Florida
1995 UCLA, Arkansas, Oklahoma State, North Carolina
1996 Kentucky, Syracuse, UMass, Mississippi State
1997 Arizona, Kentucky, North Carolina, Minnesota
1998 Kentucky, Utah, North Carolina, Stanford
1999 UConn, Duke, Michigan State, Ohio State
2000 Michigan State, Florida, Wisconsin, North Carolina
2001 Duke, Arizona, Michigan State, Maryland
2002 Maryland, Indiana, Oklahoma, Kansas
2003 Syracuse, Kansas, Texas, Marquette
2004 UConn, Georgia Tech, Duke, Oklahoma State
2005 North Carolina, Illinois, Louisville, Michigan State
2006 Florida, UCLA, LSU, George Mason
2007 Florida, Ohio State, Georgetown, UCLA
2008 Kansas, Memphis, North Carolina, UC LA
2009 North Carolina, Michigan State, UConn, Villanova
2010 Duke, Butler, West Virginia, Michigan State
2011 UConn, Butler, Kentucky, VCU
2012 Kentucky, Kansas, Ohio state, Louisville
2013 Louisville, Michigan, Syracuse, Wichita State
2014 UConn, Kentucky, Florida, Wisconsin

The bleacher report method was better than anything I've seen here.

 

[rrlbees]

Name me the time that we lost to a team that was insanely underseeded?

Just one? Texas A&M.

Where did the word insanely get mentioned?

 

[Briancuse]

Just one? Texas A&M.

Where did the word insanely get mentioned?

I don't know, I just felt like throwing it in there. We were also overseeded that year.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Yes seriously.

You seriously think we over achieved in 1999? Okay take 2000. Much the same team, a great team (Hart, Blackwell, Thomas, Brown Bland, Shumpert). Ranked #4 in the nation near the end of conference play. Blown out by Michigan State 75-58. Those guys also did not underachieve I suppose?

In 2004 we got to the S16, so you are a happy guy. Even if we did lose to a #8 seed - unranked Alabama.

Low expectations produces fans who are easy to please.

MSU game was a home game for them. I was there. Were you?

Nothing but green and loud as he!!.

Oh yeah, and they did win national championship that year.

Inexcusable loss, no doubt about it.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

2004 is the exact same team that won the National Championship the year before. Minus a one and done kid who moved on and Duany, (but all now Srs. and Jrs). I don't think I am being "unrealistic" when I think they should have been able to beat a team (Alabama) that never cracked the Top 25 all year. Certainly 2004 was not one of our overachieving teams.

Yeah, that one and done kid really didn't make much of a difference. Basically the exact same team talent-wise.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah, that one and done kid really didn't make much of a difference. Basically the exact same team talent-wise.

His name even escapes me.

 

[orange2win]

Yeah, that one and done kid really didn't make much of a difference. Basically the exact same team talent-wise.

I hope we don't need a NBA lottery pick player to beat an unranked team every year.

No shame in losing to Michigan State in 2000. They were indeed very good. But we got trounced, so not a great showing by us.

 

[pfister1]

Contributed to this today. Cuse is in the Top 10.

http://collegespun.com/national/the...m-era-scored-by-ncaa-tournament-bracket-rules

I would have like to have seen the scoring matrix shifted a level so that making the tournament is credited with something. Either failure to make the tournament results in a deduction of points and a round of 64 loss is no points, or a loss in the round of 64 results in some points just for making the tournament.

A round of 64 exit shouldn't be looked at the same way as a season where a team didn't even make the tourney.

 

[two3zone]

2004 is the exact same team that won the National Championship the year before. Minus a one and done kid who moved on and Duany, (but all now Srs. and Jrs). I don't think I am being "unrealistic" when I think they should have been able to beat a team (Alabama) that never cracked the Top 25 all year. Certainly 2004 was not one of our overachieving teams.

Outside of the obvious Melo, Edelin played less than 20 games. That's two pretty damn good players to make a difference.

 

[Alsacs]

The bleacher report method was better than anything I've seen here.

What is the Bleacher report method?

 

[rrlbees]

What is the Bleacher report method?

My bad. Not BR. College Spun.

 

[Alsacs]

My bad. Not BR. College Spun.

College spun method doesn't ding a program for missing the NCAA tournament. It makes the a loss in the round of 64 equal to not making the NCAA tournament. That it ridiculous it inflates our ranking. I think Syracuse is a top 10 program, but missing the NCAA tournament shouldn't be equal to losing in the first round.

 

[swish7]

Good stuff. We've moved from group B to group C. UConn and Florida have taken advantage of their opportunities and moved from group Z to B in short order. 2010 is the gift that keeps giving. It would have easily kept us in group B.

Team # of Final 4s
Duke 11
North Carolina 9
Kansas 8
Kentucky 7
Michigan State 6
Florida 5
UConn 5
Arizona 4
Louisville 4
Michigan 4
Syracuse 4
UCLA 4
Arkansas 3
Indiana 3
Ohio State 3
UNLV 3
Butler 2
Georgetown 2
Georgia Tech 2
Illinois 2
LSU 2
Maryland 2
Memphis 2
Oklahoma 2
Oklahoma State 2
Villanova 2
Wisconsin 2
Cincinnati 1
George Mason 1
Marquette 1
Minnesota 1
Mississippi State 1
Providence 1
Seton Hall 1
St. John's 1
Stanford 1
Texas 1
UMass 1
Utah 1
VCU 1
West Virginia 1
Wichita State 1

 

[rrlbees]

Good stuff. We've moved from group B to group C. UConn and Florida have taken advantage of their opportunities and moved from group Z to B in short order. 2010 is the gift that keeps giving. It would have easily kept us in group B. Team # of Final 4s Duke 11 North Carolina 9 Kansas 8 Kentucky 7 Michigan State 6 Florida 5 UConn 5 Arizona 4 Louisville 4 Michigan 4 Syracuse 4 UCLA 4 Arkansas 3 Indiana 3 Ohio State 3 UNLV 3 Butler 2 Georgetown 2 Georgia Tech 2 Illinois 2 LSU 2 Maryland 2 Memphis 2 Oklahoma 2 Oklahoma State 2 Villanova 2 Wisconsin 2 Cincinnati 1 George Mason 1 Marquette 1 Minnesota 1 Mississippi State 1 Providence 1 Seton Hall 1 St. John's 1 Stanford 1 Texas 1 UMass 1 Utah 1 VCU 1 West Virginia 1 Wichita State 1

Thar article has us 9th which seems about right. I'd say anyone top 10 is the A group.

 

[Alsacs]

In the 64 team era this is how I rank the teams by tier
Tier A more than 2 NCs
Duke 11F4s-4NCs
North Carolina 9F4s 3NCs
UConn 5F4s 4NCs

Tier B 2 NCs multiple F4s
Kansas 8F4s 2NCs
Kentucky 7F4s 2NCs

Florida 5F4s 2NCs

Louisville 4F4s 2NCs

Tier C 1 NC atleast 4 Final 4s
Michigan State 6F4s 1NC

Arizona 4F4s 1NC
Syracuse 4F4s 1NC
Michigan 4F4s 1NC
UCLA 4F4s 1NC

Tier D 1 NC 3 Final 4s
Arkansas 3F4s 1NC
Indiana 3F4s 1NC
UNLV 3F4s 1NC

Tier E 1 NC only 2 Final 4s
Maryland 2F4s 1NC

Tier multiple Final 4s no NCs
Ohio State 3

Butler 2
Georgetown 2
Georgia Tech 2
Illinois 2
LSU 2
Memphis 2
Oklahoma 2
Oklahoma State 2
Villanova 2
Wisconsin 2

Tier G 1 Final 4
Cincinnati 1
George Mason 1
Marquette 1
Minnesota 1
Mississippi State 1
Providence 1
Seton Hall 1
St. John's 1
Stanford 1
Texas 1
UMass 1
Utah 1
VCU 1
West Virginia 1
Wichita State 1


Being in tier C we have nothing to feel bad about, I just wish we had another NC so we could be in tier B.

 

[rrlbees]

That's a lot of tiers that are self defined. Even more than school grades. I'd say tier A is the top 10, tier b 11-25, tier c through 40 then everyone else cause they don't matter.

 

[Alsacs]

That's a lot of tiers that are self defined. Even more than school grades. I'd say tier A is the top 10, tier b 11-25, tier c through 40 then everyone else cause they don't matter.

You are an easier grader than me then. Just because we are top 10 doesn't mean you get an "A" in my mind you have to earn your grade. Its all subjective, I give "A"s to who earn them. I have said we are a top 10 program, but that doesn't earn you an "A" if your resume isn't close to the programs above you.

If you want call tier D "tier D+", tier E "tier D", and and G "tier D-" fine. I was just using letters in a row.

 

[rrlbees]

You are an easier grader than me then. Just because we are top 10 doesn't mean you get an "A" in my mind you have to earn your grade. Its all subjective, I give "A"s to who earn them. I have said we are a top 10 program, but that doesn't earn you an "A" if your resume isn't close to the programs above you.

If you want call tier D "tier D+", tier E "tier D", and and G "tier D-" fine. I was just using letters in a row.

There's about 350 d1 teams. Top 10 is pretty darn good. Even if you only use the best 100 who have been on the stage forever, bring too 10 is the top 10% which is an A in most anyone's book.

 

[Alsacs]

There's about 350 d1 teams. Top 10 is pretty darn good. Even if you only use the best 100 who have been on the stage forever, bring too 10 is the top 10% which is an A in most anyone's book.

Listen I agree we are top 10, but being in the top 10 doesn't guarantee you an "A". Each professor I have ever had in undergraduate and post under-graduate has had their own standard for determining grades. I would only give "A"s to the best of the best. I have no qualms with our program, but we don't have the NCs to earn the same grade as the schools above us IMO.

You can grade whatever you want, but your way and mind way are both fair. I still have no clue what you way is, but I am sure its fair. I honestly don't get your point fighting this. My standards are fair you can disagree with them all you want, but it comes off to me like you want an echo chamber. I give praise, I give fair criticism, I call it the way I see it.

 

[im4cuse]

I think the original list is pretty accurate. I think we are with AZ and Ville (almost). Not surprising we are often recruiting against them. Note that we are 2d private school (size matters with resources sometimes) to Duke. Not bad either. However on the longer list there need to be more "deductions" for failing to make the tournament (Maryland, Arkansas !!, UNLV, even UCon).