The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[rrlbees]

Whether it's Rvls or Skout, the sites are well known for putting people with clear conflicts in position of influence over their site ratings. Now with the 4 and 5 star guys, in general, it probably doesn't have that much impact. But the 2/3 star more subjective rankings, it clearly has an impact. We saw it with Bob L. and we saw it with Farrel. In my opinion, if you are doing a ranking or rating, there should be justification for that ranking on a recruit's profile. For better or for worse, people can at least get a sense of why a recruit is being ranked a certain way against all of their peers. Without that, it leaves things wide open for speculation and conspiracy theories on the part of subscribers.

In all the years we spent at those sites and all the interaction I had with all those guys, the only one I didn't trust and we had proof of it at the time was MF.

 

[retro44]

I could be wrong, but isn't Brian Dohn (scowt) a recruiting analyst for the Northeast? Wasn't he a Rutgers forum admin or site publisher at one point? And prior to that a newspaper reporter? If so, I find it quite odd that's he responsible for evaluating football talent.

absolutely true on Dohn, but the stars bumping didn't help as they fell one spot in the team rankings

 

[retro44]

You know it's bad for rutgirls when they lose a recruiting battle to a community college. Here's the kicker in this, his school coach says he was cleared to play D-1 with his grades, but wants to play in the big 12.

He's also a Q.B. which proves he was plenty smart.

 

[CuseOnly]

I don't think that anyone that has not played a down or coached a down of football in their lives should be evaluating talent, Period. There are very few people that have on any of the recruiting ranking sites.

Being a writer no matter how respected in any way makes you better at evaluating talent. I love when they say in their "bios" he is well respected and has been promoted through the ranks to "director of recruiting, blah blah blah..."...by who? yep, other writers equally as unqualified to evaluate talent.

Ask Bu Poliquin who has been a sports writer forever, is he qualified to judge football talent, no.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think that anyone that has not played a down or coached a down of football in their lives should be evaluating talent, Period. There are very few people that have on any of the recruiting ranking sites. Being a writer no matter how respected in any way makes you better at evaluating talent. I love when they say in their "bios" he is well respected and has been promoted through the ranks to "director of recruiting, blah blah blah..."...by who? yep, other writers equally as unqualified to evaluate talent. Ask Bu Poliquin who has been a sports writer forever, is he qualified to judge football talent, no.

Many of the guys I knew over there did play football. Most of the site writers also don't evaluate players, they do interviews and write articles.

 

[anomander]

That's why I like the ESPN board much better, at least on the players they have seen they have an analysis of the player. The analysis includes players strengths, and weakness.

i agree with you about ESPN, only thing is they don't update players outside the top 300 after their Junior seasons unless they get bumped up.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Y Obviously it impacted some rutgirls kids as it did others across the country.

Any of ours affected? If not, any idea why only certain teams' players are updated?

 

[rrlbees]

Any of ours affected? If not, any idea why only certain teams' players are updated?

All rankings were updated. But if a kids ranking didn't change or move up or down to impact stars, then there is no change. For example, WR's 2-10 are 4 star lets say. 2-10 may have been shuffled but the same kids stayed in that 2-10, then nobodies 4 star would change. But say 10 was now 11 and 12 was now 10. One would go from 4 star to 3 and one would go from 3 to 4.

They updated all positions and rankings but not every kid has a new star rating. I'm fact most probably don't. It's not a matter of updating one school or another. None of SU's players moved up or down enough in the rankings to change their stars.

 

[texascpa]

All rankings were updated. But if a kids ranking didn't change or move up or down to impact stars, then there is no change. For example, WR's 2-10 are 4 star lets say. 2-10 may have been shuffled but the same kids stayed in that 2-10, then nobodies 4 star would change. But say 10 was now 11 and 12 was now 10. One would go from 4 star to 3 and one would go from 3 to 4.

They updated all positions and rankings but not every kid has a new star rating. I'm fact most probably don't. It's not a matter of updating one school or another. None of SU's players moved up or down enough in the rankings to change their stars.

So AJ is still an NR 2-star on Scout, right?

How can a top 15 DT QB on ESPN not even been rated on Scout yet? oooo...oooo...I know, because there is no urgency to review Syracuse commits due to the low fan base on the site.

 

[CuseOnly]

So AJ is still an NR 2-star on Scout, right?

Yes, probably because he didn't show up to their camp. Seems a fair method of evaluation.

 

[texascpa]

Yes, probably because he didn't show up to their camp. Seems a fair method of evaluation.

That would be a fair explanation if it applied to all recruits, but we know that is not true.

 

[rrlbees]

So AJ is still an NR 2-star on Scout, right?.

No idea. I was originally addressing a question about the other site who updated their rankings on Wednesday.

 

[texascpa]

No idea. I was originally addressing a question about the other site who updated their rankings on Wrdnesday.

Sorry, assumed it was Scout. I was looking for the originating post and couldn't find it. I admit I only looked up a few posts before yours.

 

[CuseOnly]

That would be a fair explanation if it applied to all recruits, but we know that is not true.

That's why I used the word "fair" because I know that some 3, 4 and 5 stars got their ratings and never had to camp with that particular site. The whole thing is a sham, granted a sham that people pay money for, but a sham nonetheless. I wish I had a scam that made that much money based solely on opinions.

 

[rrlbees]

How can a top 15 DT QB on ESPN not even been rated on Scout yet? oooo...oooo...I know, because there is no urgency to review Syracuse commits due to the low fan base on the site.

That's kind if cherry picking. I'm sure there are players rated lower on ESPN than the other sites too. Does it bother anyone that ESPN has our class rated lower as a whole?

 

[rrlbees]

That's why I used the word "fair" because I know that some 3, 4 and 5 stars got their ratings and never had to camp with that particular site. The whole thing is a sham, granted a sham that people pay money for, but a sham nonetheless. I wish I had a scam that made that much money based solely on opinions.

They don't have to attend a sites camp to get ranked. There are many ways for a site to rank kids besides their own camps. There are any number of camps not run by a recruiting site. There are numerous combines run by the Nikes and UA's of the world. There are HS bowl games. There are state all star games. There are state playoffs. And yes some go see regular season games in their area. Last but not least, there is also video that many HS coaches send to the sites.

 

[oldpinepoint]

They don't have to attend a sites camp to get ranked. There are many ways for a site to rank kids besides their own camps. There are any number of camps not run by a recruiting site. There are numerous combines run by the Nikes and UA's of the world. There are HS bowl games. There are state all star games. There are state playoffs. And yes some go see regular season games in their area. Last but not least, there is also video that many HS coaches send to the sites.

Can We please keep on topic and get back to trashing Rutgers. Thank you

 

[PhatOrange]

You said in an effort to keep rutgirls class afloat they bumped a couple of their kids. That is wrong. All their national rankings got updated across board. They didn't change anything just for rutgers to keep their class afloat. Obviously it impacted some rutgirls kids as it did others across the country.

Its not wrong. The rankings were updated across the board and Buttgers arbitrarily benefited from that.

Where they monkey with the rankings is the arbitrary numeric value assigned to kids.

Most of our 3 star kids are only a numeric 5.5 where as their majority 3 star kids are a numeric 5.6 – it’s an arbitrary measure and can be manipulated one way or the other. There is no other way to spin it. And it’s obvious why coaches will say they don’t care about those stupid rankings ‘the 55th class the 37th class” etc., because the arbitrary numeric value is that difference.

It’s the 3 star layer that makes or breaks where a class is rated.

Syracuse 3 star kids: 12 (current rank 61) – 17 total kids

4 star kids

5.8 – 1

3 Star Kids

5.7 – 1
5.6 – 2
5.5 – 9

2 Star Kids

5.4 – 2
5.3 – 2


Buttgers 3 star kids: 17 (current rank 40) – 23 total kids

4 star kids

5.8 – 1

3 Star Kids

5.7 – 0
5.6 – 11
5.5 – 6

2 Star Kids

5.4 – 2
5.3 – 2
5.2 – 1

By some BS arbitrary numeric ranking the people in charge effectively squash Syracuse's overall team ranking, which makes it appear to the masses that we have a poor recruiting class. (I believe this is purely subscriber based manipulating). Nobody can tell me with a straight face that 9 of our 3 star recruits are only 5.5 worthy while 11 of their 3 star recruits are 5.6 worthy. 5.5 or 5.6 it doesn't make any sense yet can effect the rankings by double digits spots.

 

[HtownOrange]

Can We please keep on topic and get back to trashing Rutgers. Thank you

Rutgers sucks!

Living here in Houston metro, I have yet to meet one Rutgers fan or graduate. If the school is not respected nationally in sports does it really exist?

 

[texascpa]

Rutgers sucks!

Living here in Houston metro, I have yet to meet one Rutgers fan or graduate. If the school is not respected nationally in sports does it really exist?

Unfortunately, I see a car with a Rutgers window sticker at the Grand Parkway Park and Ride almost every day

 

[alphaorange]

I don't think that anyone that has not played a down or coached a down of football in their lives should be evaluating talent, Period. There are very few people that have on any of the recruiting ranking sites.

Being a writer no matter how respected in any way makes you better at evaluating talent. I love when they say in their "bios" he is well respected and has been promoted through the ranks to "director of recruiting, blah blah blah..."...by who? yep, other writers equally as unqualified to evaluate talent.

Ask Bu Poliquin who has been a sports writer forever, is he qualified to judge football talent, no.

I don't know that I agree. Anyone can learn to evaluate anything. Plenty of people that coached or played at a high level are clueless when it comes to evaluating. It is a skill unto itself and depends on the talent and training of the evaluator. Having played may give you a leg up, but it certainly does not assure you the ability to do it. I do know what you are saying about these guys, though.

 

[rrlbees]

Its not wrong. The rankings were updated across the board and Buttgers arbitrarily benefited from that. Where they monkey with the rankings is the arbitrary numeric value assigned to kids. Most of our 3 star kids are only a numeric 5.5 where as their majority 3 star kids are a numeric 5.6 – it’s an arbitrary measure and can be manipulated one way or the other. There is no other way to spin it. And it’s obvious why coaches will say they don’t care about those stupid rankings ‘the 55th class the 37th class” etc., because the arbitrary numeric value is that difference. It’s the 3 star layer that makes or breaks where a class is rated. Syracuse 3 star kids: 12 (current rank 61) – 17 total kids 4 star kids 5.8 – 1 3 Star Kids 5.7 – 1 5.6 – 2 5.5 – 9 2 Star Kids 5.4 – 2 5.3 – 2 Buttgers 3 star kids: 17 (current rank 40) – 23 total kids 4 star kids 5.8 – 1 3 Star Kids 5.7 – 0 5.6 – 11 5.5 – 6 2 Star Kids 5.4 – 2 5.3 – 2 5.2 – 1 By some BS arbitrary numeric ranking the people in charge effectively squash Syracuse's overall team ranking, which makes it appear to the masses that we have a poor recruiting class. (I believe this is purely subscriber based manipulating). Nobody can tell me with a straight face that 9 of our 3 star recruits are only 5.5 worthy while 11 of their 3 star recruits are 5.6 worthy. 5.5 or 5.6 it doesn't make any sense yet can effect the rankings by double digits spots.

I wonder why ESPN hates SU too.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I wonder why ESPN hates SU too.

Not the entire Worldwide Leader, just Mark Schwarz.

 

[rrlbees]

Not the entire Worldwide Leader, just Mark Schwarz.

And obviously their recruiting guys since they have only Wake Forest below us and they include MD for some reason. Don't know how updated their "scores" are for players.

 

[HtownOrange]

Unfortunately, I see a car with a Rutgers window sticker at the Grand Parkway Park and Ride almost every day

You, sir, have my sympathies. So long as you don't have to talk sports with him...