The Big East and Eastern Football

[walsh2012]

Good guy. Well thought of by everyone at ND.

Good quarterback with a quick release and very accurate with his throws.

He handles the offense well and makes good reads.

His drawback is that he is not very mobile and prone to sacks.

I would have been happy with Angeli as ND's starting QB this year, but Freeman went with CJ Carr or Kenny Minchey.

He will be a very good QB for Syracuse this year.

Thanks terry, but also screw your team for ruining the old big east

 

[TerryD]

Thanks terry, but also screw your team for ruining the old big east

The Big East ruined the Big East.

Fifteen other schools couldn't figure out how to keep the conference alive but it is all one school's fault ??

The football schools had a "get out of jail free card" to split but were afraid to use it.

The old Big East was never going to make it long term in today's TV/realignment climate.

 

[baggerbob]

The Big East ruined the Big East.

Fifteen other schools couldn't figure out how to keep the conference alive but it is all one school's fault ??

The football schools had a "get out of jail free card" to split but were afraid to use it.

The old Big East was never going to make it long term in today's TV/realignment climate.

The football schools should have split when the Catholic schools turned down the contract. They could have added Louisville and Cincinnati with no problem and probably Memphis, which would still have been a good basketball conference.
And I believe Notre Dame would have liked an arrangement with that league.

 

[SU68]

The football schools should have split when the Catholic schools turned down the contract. They could have added Louisville and Cincinnati with no problem and probably Memphis, which would still have been a good basketball conference.
And I believe Notre Dame would have liked an arrangement with that league.

The football schools should have split when Penn State was blackballed. The writing was on the wall.

 

[RF2044]

The football schools should have split when Penn State was blackballed. The writing was on the wall.

Agree 100% -- that was the fracture that led to the demise of the classic Big East. Didn't happen overnight, but the die was cast.

First, Penn State pivoted to the B1G.

Then, the Big East responded by bloating with a large group of additional programs, some of which weren't geographically contiguous / some of which weren't "peer" programs of some of the existing teams.

Then, in about 10 years, a bunch of those newbies split off and hopped to greener pastures, inducing some traditional Big East programs following suit.

Nobody loathes Penn State more than I do, but I wonder how much of conference realignment would have been different if we'd just added Penn State, which would have "anchored" our football conference and centered things around northeast football.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The football schools should have split when Penn State was blackballed. The writing was on the wall.

That would have been Syracuse and BC. They were the ONLY football schools in the BE back in 1982.

Where would we have gone back then?

 

[oldpinepoint]

That would have been Syracuse and BC. They were the ONLY football schools in the BE back in 1982.

Where would we have gone back then?

Big 10

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Big 10

They weren't ready to take PSU until 1990. I'm sure convincing them to go from 10 to 13 overnight wouldn't have been a problem.

 

[oldpinepoint]

They weren't ready to take PSU until 1990. I'm sure convincing them to go from 10 to 13 overnight wouldn't have been a problem

I had sources at the time back in 1982 that said it was a sure thing . Even though I was born in 1977 I stand by those sources

 

[Archbold44]

The football schools should have split when Penn State was blackballed. The writing was on the wall.

This. According to the Wikis, Rutgers and Holy Cross declined to join the Big East. Rutgers landed OK. But there is an alternative universe where Holy Cross makes a Final Four as a Big East member in the 1980s.

 

[Archbold44]

That would have been Syracuse and BC. They were the ONLY football schools in the BE back in 1982.

Where would we have gone back then?

Was it Pitt vs. Penn State and we took Pitt? If so, not sure how that helped anything... still added a football school. Why not add them both?? I suppose that might have prevented a full round robin. Would have needed 18 conference games with 10 teams.

Edit: Pitt 1981 football went 11-1 for the third straight year. Not like we were adding Temple football because of hoops. We were adding a football "power" at the time.

 

[baggerbob]

The football schools should have split when Penn State was blackballed. The writing was on the wall.

Unfortunately at the time Penn St got black balled, only Syracuse and Boston College were in the conference, then they added Pittsburgh.
But Syracuse and Boston College , Penn St , Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple, Virginia Tech, Miami, Florida St, along with Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis could have formed a great football, and basketball conference. And adding Notre Dame as a partial would have been great.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Was it Pitt vs. Penn State and we took Pitt? If so, not sure how that helped anything... still added a football school. Why not add them both?? I suppose that might have prevented a full round robin. Would have needed 18 conference games with 10 teams.

Edit: Pitt 1981 football went 11-1 for the third straight year. Not like we were adding Temple football because of hoops. We were adding a football "power" at the time.

Crouthamel suggested adding PSU's Basketball and Olympic programs to the BE. Needed 6 votes, and only got 5.

Since the BE was still afraid of losing both SU to BC to a potential PSU All-Sports conference, in 1983 they chose to invite Pitt for Basketball and Olympic sports.

Once Pitt was off the table, it put the kibosh on any plans JoePa had to start a competing conference.

Dave Gavitt had NO plans to turn the BE into a football league. It was never going to happen on his watch. It wasn't until Mike Tranghese was commissioner that the BE embraced the whole football thing.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Unfortunately at the time Penn St got black balled, only Syracuse and Boston College were in the conference, then they added Pittsburgh.
But Syracuse and Boston College , Penn St , Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple, Virginia Tech, Miami, Florida St, along with Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis could have formed a great football, and basketball conference. And adding Notre Dame as a partial would have been great.

Would have been a great idea, as long as PSU kept every dime of its' football ticket and concession money, while Syracuse would have been forced to share Basketball ticket money with the rest of the league.

That's why JoePa's idea never got off the ground in the first place. All for him, and none for you.

Imagine if 8 of us decided to rent a house together. I get to live rent free, while the 7 of you have to share expenses.

 

[baggerbob]

Crouthamel suggested adding PSU's Basketball and Olympic programs to the BE. Needed 6 votes, and only got 5.

Since the BE was still afraid of losing both SU to BC to a potential PSU All-Sports conference, in 1983 they chose to invite Pitt for Basketball and Olympic sports.

Once Pitt was off the table, it put the kibosh on any plans JoePa had to start a competing conference.

Dave Gavitt had NO plans to turn the BE into a football league. It wasn't until Mike Tranghese was commissioner, that the BE embraced the whole football thing.

That was way too late we as it turned out.
Jake was a wonderful man. Very loyal, but not someone looking into the future.
The previous AD Lou Andreas was usually ahead of things, he would have made the move.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

That was way too late we as it turned out.
Jake was a wonderful man. Very loyal, but not someone looking into the future.
The previous AD Lou Andreas was usually ahead of things, he would have made the move.

Eastern Indy Football was a different animal back then.

The NCAA controlled all the TV contracts, and everyone got the same sized slice of the pie.

It wasn't until the Supreme Court ruled in the 90's that Conferences and Teams could negotiate their own TV deals, that conference membership became popular.

 

[SU68]

That was way too late we as it turned out.
Jake was a wonderful man. Very loyal, but not someone looking into the future.
The previous AD Lou Andreas was usually ahead of things, he would have made the move.

100%. When the ACC expansion investigation committee came to Syracuse in 2003, Jake was, at best, ambivalent to the possible move. IIRC, Buzz Shaw wasn't particularly welcoming to the committee either.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

100%. When the ACC expansion investigation committee came to Syracuse in 2003, Jake was, at best, ambivalent to the possible move. IIRC, Buzz Shaw wasn't particularly welcoming to the committee either.

And yet 5 out of 8 schools voted to invite Syracuse.

UNC & Duke voted against any expansion.

Virginia was blackmailed into voting for Va Tech.

Imagine being up for a promotion, and the other candidate is the boss' cousin. Good luck with that.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Crouthamel suggested adding PSU's Basketball and Olympic programs to the BE. Needed 6 votes, and only got 5.

Since the BE was still afraid of losing both SU to BC to a potential PSU All-Sports conference, in 1983 they chose to invite Pitt for Basketball and Olympic sports.

Once Pitt was off the table, it put the kibosh on any plans JoePa had to start a competing conference.

Dave Gavitt had NO plans to turn the BE into a football league. It was never going to happen on his watch. It wasn't until Mike Tranghese was commissioner that the BE embraced the whole football thing.

I haven't seen it in awhile but my recollection is that the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary "Requiem for the Big East" (2014) says it was Georgetown who refused to vote to add Penn St. and effectively blackballed the move. The doc either implies it or comes out and says it. [It's available on ESPN+. A few clips are on YouTube.]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I haven't seen it in awhile but my recollection is that the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary "Requiem for the Big East" (2014) says it was Georgetown who refused to vote to add Penn St. and effectively blackballed the move. The doc either implies it or comes out and says it. [It's available on ESPN+. A few clips are on YouTube.]

Georgetown, St Johns and Nova were the three NO votes.

 

[Archbold44]

Georgetown, St Johns and Nova were the three NO votes.

Interesting, really. If you look at it... we really did not fit the Big East either. But which group do we really fit better with as of 1980-1981:

(A) St. Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, UConn, Villanova
(B) Penn State, Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Temple, West Virginia

And we chose (A). Add Miami and Syracuse to (B) and we have a conference that would have competed with every conference.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Georgetown, St Johns and Nova were the three NO votes.

Thanks. I knew there were others but the documentary particularly put the blame on Georgetown. When I have a chance I'll look at it again to pin down why. My recollection it was near the end of the almost 2 hours.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Interesting, really. If you look at it... we really did not fit the Big East either. But which group do we really fit better with as of 1980-1981:

(A) St. Johns, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, UConn, Villanova
(B) Penn State, Pitt, Rutgers, BC, Temple, West Virginia

And we chose (A). Add Miami and Syracuse to (B) and we have a conference that would have competed with every conference.

Penn State would have jumped to the Big10 at the earliest opportunity for more $$$.

Whether or not the B10 decided to add one more team to get to an even 12 back in the 90's is another huge "what if".

 

[Archbold44]

Penn State would have jumped to the Big10 at the earliest opportunity for more $$$.

Whether or not the B10 decided to add one more team to get to an even 12 back in the 90's is another huge "what if".

But who is to say the B1G could have offered more money with a NE/Miami conference. Maybe we add Florida State also And then Clemson starts wondering if it is better to be with some football schools in the NE, rather than basketball schools in the SE.

 

[baggerbob]

I haven't seen it in awhile but my recollection is that the ESPN 30 For 30 documentary "Requiem for the Big East" (2014) says it was Georgetown who refused to vote to add Penn St. and effectively blackballed the move. The doc either implies it or comes out and says it. [It's available on ESPN+. A few clips are on YouTube.]

It took 3 schools Georgetown, St John's, and Villanova.