The Cooney Issue...

[tbonezone]

7-32 deep. just saying. i ain't in panic mode by any means but it is an issue given last year.

 

[RF2044]

7-32 deep. just saying. i ain't in panic mode by any means but it is an issue given last year.

Last year has no correlation to this year.

Zero.

 

[themorey]

In ACC play the teams are playing him tighter and I would like to see him develop a shot fake from behind the 3. Get his guy in the air and either get fouled or try the dribble drive. Seems like the next progression of his game.

 

[RF2044]

In ACC play the teams are playing him tighter and I would like to see him develop a shot fake from behind the 3. Get his guy in the air and either get fouled or try the dribble drive. Seems like the next progression of his game.

He showed that effectively once today. Agree--the shot fake would be great for him to incorporate into his repertoire if teams are going to commit to overplaying him defensively.

 

[moqui]

regression to the mean; it was likely to happen

I think he'll end up shooting 36 to 39% in ACC play, which is all we need. He'll have a stretch where he hits like 11 of 18 over 2 or 3 games and he'll be right back up there.

 

[RF2044]

regression to the mean; it was likely to happen

I think he'll end up shooting 36 to 39% in ACC play, which is all we need. He'll have a stretch where he hits like 11 of 18 over 2 or 3 games and he'll be right back up there.

Completely agree.

I critiqued in an earlier post that many posters seem to start wringing their hands if players aren't performing and jaw dropping levels. Did anyone REALLY expect Cooney to shoot 50% from three all season long? Because if so, how realistic is that? And secondly, is that a realistic baseline?

Kid is a double figure scorer who will end up shooting a quality percentage from three, and provide quality defense every game. Good sophomore year, in other words.

 

[tbonezone]

Last year has no correlation to this year.

Zero.

sorry but i respectably disagree. he shot 26% on a fairly large sample size last year.
not saying he hasn't improved . but just not so much in the ACC sample we've seen so far.

 

[RF2044]

sorry but i respectably disagree. he shot 26% on a fairly large sample size last year.
not saying he hasn't improved . but just not so much in the ACC sample we've seen so far.

Last year he was playing behind two guards who got the bulk of minutes. He didn't shoot well all year long, despite having the tools.

This year, he is not only one of the main offensive threats we have, but he isn't looking over his shoulder when he makes a mistake or misses a shot or two.

The difference between his circumstances--or the quality of his play--couldn't be any more different comparing the two seasons.

I'm cool agreeing to disagree. All good!

 

[tbonezone]

cool too. i've heard jb call him option #2 on offense.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Anyone else remember how JSoutherland was "off" prior to his unconscious shooting during the BET last year? Or Rautins, Devo, Gmac, heck even Preston Shumpert at different stages of a season?
What u hope for is that our designated sniper gets hot at the right time to carry us over the top.
This micro-analysis of everything Trevor Cooney...is a little bizarre, IMO. I don't think it's ALL racial, but some folks seem determined to stalk every bad game from him & loudly proclaim they're "worried" or "concerned".
Frankly, I think its ridiculous- & just more of the same regurgitated, anal-retentive bullshit that certain segments of our fanbase live to thrive on.
Let it go already. Sheesh.

 

[kuethstheman]

I think Cooney is doing fine and will be fine. On the other hand, I think this team will lose eventually and when they lose I predict that Cooney will not have shot well. That'll be one more reason not to visit the board after the loss.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Coney took good shots, but was way off yesterday. The team has much better spacing when he is on the floor though. Grant and Fair have much more room to operate when Trevor is being guarded 25 feet away from the basket.

 

[Orangezoo]

Its 2 games. Not 3 of the last 4. 2-12 vs miami and 2-12 vs unc. Also its the amount of attempts that clouds perception. Cooney went 5-8 vs nova then 2-5 vs emu then 2-12 vs miami then 3-8 vs vtech and then the 2-12 again vs unc. He also made two long twos vs unc.

So to correct one error in the thread he has not struggled in 3 of the last 4. In addition if he goes 2-7 or 2-8 instead of 2-12 there would be far less chatter. That bottom number gets ppl far too worked up.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think another thing that generates controversy is those who want to discuss Cooney's progression. It seems to me some people take offense to the idea that some are watching for signs of continued growth out of TC.

Why wouldn't last year matter? To me, it appeared that TC had issues dealing with pressure last year. It has been great to see TC show he can handle the role of starting 2g and hit at a great pace in the home OOC portion, that is a huge step. The next step is to see if TC can perform under increased pressure. To date, he has not responded well. Any way you slice the data, home > away, OOC > in-conference, the greater the pressure the smaller the 3pt%. If you took out Maui, the % differences would be of the sledgehammer variety. And even in Maui, as the pressure increased, ie the final, the % decreased (20%). Yes, these are small sample sizes, but no one wants to include last years figures.

Excluding Maui, TC has not hit his in-season 3pt% in any away or in-conference game yet. To me, this is the most important in-season improvement needed. Of course he can do it. I just want to see it done, the quicker the better. The longer it stays around the more of an issue it may become.

 

[Jasoncuse]

His mechanics were way off yesterday. That's where the concern should be. He kept fading left (like last season) and the ball came out of his hand differently multiple times. He needs to clean that up again.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think another thing that generates controversy is those who want to discuss Cooney's progression. It seems to me some people take offense to the idea that some are watching for signs of continued growth out of TC.

Why wouldn't last year matter? To me, it appeared that TC had issues dealing with pressure last year. It has been great to see TC show he can handle the role of starting 2g and hit at a great pace in the home OOC portion, that is a huge step. The next step is to see if TC can perform under increased pressure. To date, he has not responded well. Any way you slice the data, home > away, OOC > in-conference, the greater the pressure the smaller the 3pt%. If you took out Maui, the % differences would be of the sledgehammer variety. And even in Maui, as the pressure increased, ie the final, the % decreased (20%). Yes, these are small sample sizes, but no one wants to include last years figures.

Excluding Maui, TC has not hit his in-season 3pt% in any away or in-conference game yet. To me, this is the most important in-season improvement needed. Of course he can do it. I just want to see it done, the quicker the better. The longer it stays around the more of an issue it may become.

I would say his net benefit to the team outweighs the missed shots. Also he has not folded under the pressure. He was still running uncs guards ragged trying to keep with him. To a degree that has impacted him as well. Trevor running hard all game to get looks is a necessary thing to provide spacing for our frontcourt. The next level of progression for him is to work on getting set when he is fatigued and to give himself an extra tenth of a second so he can follow through. This year its more about some subtle progressions he needs to make against teams who defend him like UNC did . Against miami he legitamely just had a bad game. Against unc his form was off a tad due to how they were defending him.

That is part unc defense part the next stage in trevors development. In his 2nd yr playing its imperative to understand there is still a developmental curve he needs to follow. The fact he has been white hot starting the season has clouded judgment of him expecting it to be the norm the whole season which is both unrealistic and an unfair assessment of how good of a player trevor has been and still is.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

...

What I'm saying is Trevor is extremely valuable to our team. He's not just a shooter but that's the only part of his game that warrants the opposition game planning for. ...

That's the point. Because of the THREAT of him getting hot, other teams have to prepare for him. That opens things up for Grant and CJ...

 

[suhoops4life]

Man, this kid generates controversy. One thing is clear, he is a hard working kid striving to improve himself while fulfilling a big role.

My thoughts on why he generates so much controversy:

1. Fans, myself included, remember last season. Every hiccup in his game brings back those memories and raises the question of whether he can sustain 40% + trey shooting for an entire season. You can't reach a conclusion as to whether or not he is the real deal in less than half a season, and only three games into the conference schedule.

2. The biggest reason, IMHO, is that he is pretty much our only three point threat. That magnifies his role. It is inherent that almost all long distance shooters will be streaky. As fans, we see how explosive our O is when Trevor gets hot and how much our O struggles when he is cold. Last season when James was off we could sometimes get three point shooting from Brandon and even MCW from time to time. Also, remember last season CJ was consistantly hot from distance. The pressure to be the Lone Ranger was not on James. That pressure is on Trevor. CJ has been picking up his trey shooting a bit the last few games. If he could hit a couple a game that would take pressure off of Trevor. Same for Ennis.

3. The last reason is that we see relative consistency from CJ and Tyler and we wonder why we can't get that consistency from Trevor. Well, the reason - see point 2 - is the difference in roles. It is possible for a PG to be very protective of the ball, and if Tyler does that, regardless of anything else, he is viewed as consistent. CJ has the ability to generate O from in close. Long range gunners are usually hot or cold. Their role is inherently one of inconsistency unless there is somebody else to pick up the slack. Trevor does not have that somebody else on this team.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

I was very encouraged by the number of quality looks he had yesterday. Previously, I'd questioned whether or not the looks could be had against good teams. I agree with the inside out approach. It's easy to identify guys who see themselves as complete players first, shooting just being part of the package. That might be the one little thing about Trevor's mentality that needs to click. I think he could be devastating with rub offs for the 15ft. mid range? I would also love to see him take it to the basket, like it's his first option.

 

[Dave85]

My concern is his shooting has been awful in 3 out of our last 4 games. If he struggles against a bad BC team on Monday, there will be a pattern developing and reason for concern.

I think Cooney will be fine. I really don't like Saturday 12 noon games. Historically, the Orange generally shoot badly during early games. I bet my conjecture would be backed up by the statistics.

 

[br801]

My concern is his shooting has been awful in 3 out of our last 4 games. If he struggles against a bad BC team on Monday, there will be a pattern developing and reason for concern.

What I'm saying is Trevor is extremely valuable to our team. He's not just a shooter but that's the only part of his game that warrants the opposition game planning for. He's shown glimpses of doing more but when he has off games like tonite, it is magnified, as you said. When he diversifies his game, his off shooting nights won't be as glaring.

Despite his shooting being off, he's continued play well defensively and continued to hustle his @ss off. That's what matters to me. And the fact that he's continued to look for his shot is important, because he's the one legitimate deep threat this team has. If Cooney were to become reluctant to shoot, this team becomes much easier to defend, and points will be difficult to come by. Remember when Southerland was out last season? The team got by, but it was a grind offensively most of those nights, and it's unlikely that team goes on a Final Four run without his presence on the court.

There's a lot more to this game than the numbers that show up in the box score. Imagine for a moment that Cooney shot 6-9 from deep and scored 20 points, but repeatedly failed to get out on shooters, made several lazy passes that turned into transition points, and failed to hustle for several loose balls that were within his reach. I'll bet there wouldn't be nearly as many people on here complaining about his game as there are now.

 

[kcsu]

Cooney is a shooter not a scorer. I have been critical of him in the past but believe that he is a solid player. I like when he is on the floor as he creates space for others. They have to be aware of him. The thing i wish for him is that he developed a better shot off the dribble. His best spot is at 2o and 8:00 on the clock . Good player who is off at this point. His shot will come back just needs to keep shooting

 

[djcon57]

Remember when Southerland was out last season? The team got by, but it was a grind offensively most of those nights, and it's unlikely that team goes on a Final Four run without his presence on the court.

Strongly disagree on the point above. We beat Louisville at Louisville w/o JS.
Grant, as we see this year, is a much, much better defender and rebounder.

 

[br801]

Strongly disagree on the point above. We beat Louisville at Louisville w/o JS.
Grant, as we see this year, is a much, much better defender and rebounder.

As I recall, that was the game where BT turned into a hot Southerland for a half, which sort of supports my point.

 

[djcon57]

As I recall, that was the game where BT turned into Southerland for a half, which sort of supports my point.

These were the games w/o Southerland last year..I disagree that it was a grind offensively w/o him..especially considering the low pt vs GTown last year, he was in the game, went 0-8, and we scored 39 pts.

1/12/2013
H Villanova
W
72-61 Carter-Williams, Triche, Coleman, Christmas, Fair Fair 22 pts
7
1/19/2013
@ Louisville
W
70-68 Carter-Williams, Triche, Coleman, Christmas, Fair Triche 23 pts
6
1
1/21/2013
H Cincinnati
W
57-55 Carter-Williams, Triche, Coleman, Christmas, Fair Carter-Williams 16 pts
3
21
1/26/2013
@ Villanova
L
71-75 Carter-Williams, Triche, Coleman, Christmas, Fair OT: Triche 23 pts, Christmas 10 reb
3
2/2/2013
@ Pittsburgh
L
55-65 Carter-Williams, Triche, Christmas, Grant, Fair Fair 20 pts
6
2/4/2013
H Notre Dame
W
63-47 Carter-Williams, Triche, Christmas, Grant, Fair Fair 18 pts, 10 reb
9
25

 

[albanycuse]

Cooney is a shooter not a scorer. I have been critical of him in the past but believe that he is a solid player. I like when he is on the floor as he creates space for others. They have to be aware of him. The thing i wish for him is that he developed a better shot off the dribble. His best spot is at 2o and 8:00 on the clock . Good player who is off at this point. His shot will come back just needs to keep shooting

Coming from the guy who said he cant play here, he should transfer, hes d3 material. You know NOTHING.