The Day After Thoughts - Houston (Desko) we have a problem

[JeremyCuse]

Good question. Virginia is very hard to defend personnel wise because they move players all over the place. It’s been said before but they basically play five attackmen at a time, and not only that but Cormier could come through the box one play but shift to attack the next. As a base defense I would put Kennedy on Moore (don’t feel like they’ll move him for this game), either Dami or Avilles on Laviano, and DiPetro on whoever else they put on attack, Murphy on whoever they play through the box, Dearth on Aitkin and Clary on whoever’s left over. So it might look like -

Kennedy - Moore
Dami - Laviano
DiPietro - Cormier
Murphy - Shellenberger
Dearth - Aitkin/Garno
Clary - Bertrand

Attack vs midfield classification really doesn’t matter. The shorty will have to keep his head on a swivel with Laviano, obviously this was an issue last week. Moore is going to shoot through whoever is guarding him, so Porter will have to be “on”. Hesitate about putting a shorty on Dox but he has yet to show he’s fully “back”. Shellenberger has a heck of an outside shot and can pass, I think he always needs a long stick. Of course, you could also say the same about Cormier and Bertrand, hence shorting Laviano. Think Murphy should handle whoever is playing midfield rather than DiPietro since he has experience playing SSDM.

Physically and athletically SU matches up pretty well (as the Doctor told us), the SU close defense is by no means small, and neither is the midfield. The big question is how SU handles slides and picks (I feel like a broken record). SU lost in OT the last time they played Virginia by misplaying a pick play behind the goal. Avilles especially last week was confused about whether to fight through a pick or switch. Guys were often times left in no mans land after a switch and left other players wide open. This is simple stuff, but concerning that it was an issue to begin with. Syracuse is going to give up goals, but they have to make Virginia work for it, rather than creating offense for the opponent, like they did against Army.

I think SU is going to have to pick out their matchups and then go with them regardless of who gets shifted where. If they put the pole on Bertrand and he slides to attack I think you have to have Barlow or whoever continue to shadow him. If were constantly trying to match back up again we will be in disastrous trouble.

As a few posters noted, this UVA squad while extremely gifted offensively (crazy talent) it is more of a 1 on 1 type of team versus an Army where its more ball movement. Certainly UVA can put up 18+ no problem with all those weapons but its a match up SU is obviously designed more to match up with. The SSDM's will really need to come to play because their gonna draw some bad matchups no matter what SU does. Laviano will be an interesting match-up, you can't go all out to shut off everyone else then having him score 5 doorstep goals. I know he seems like a lock to short stick but not sure SU wants a SSDM forced to try and defend around the crease constantly. Rogers has his work cut out for him.

 

[Powellfan]

I think SU is going to have to pick out their matchups and then go with them regardless of who gets shifted where. If they put the pole on Bertrand and he slides to attack I think you have to have Barlow or whoever continue to shadow him. If were constantly trying to match back up again we will be in disastrous trouble.

As a few posters noted, this UVA squad while extremely gifted offensively (crazy talent) it is more of a 1 on 1 type of team versus an Army where its more ball movement. Certainly UVA can put up 18+ no problem with all those weapons but its a match up SU is obviously designed more to match up with. The SSDM's will really need to come to play because their gonna draw some bad matchups no matter what SU does. Laviano will be an interesting match-up, you can't go all out to shut off everyone else then having him score 5 doorstep goals. I know he seems like a lock to short stick but not sure SU wants a SSDM forced to try and defend around the crease constantly. Rogers has his work cut out for him.

Sorry, think we are trying to say the same thing. In my mind, I think Bertrand, Cormier and Shellenberger should all have long sticks assigned to them, just tried to lay out who it should be in a perfect world. Obviously that’s not what’s going to happen, and SU needs to be okay with matchups breaking down. They have to slide and hep defenders when they need it, but can’t slide just to slide and create an easy shot for the offense.

 

[CuseNHouse]

Re: Quinn - someone mentioned him as “practice legend” which triggered a memory.

A few years back, I was staying at the campus Sheraton for a game and I ran into a bunch of player parents at the bar.

At one point , a debate started about Sam Romano and whether he should get more time .

Apparently he too was “practice legend”. One of the fathers said that his son claimed that Romano could not be stopped in practice - he was running circles around everyone else ..but every time he was in a game situation - he seemed to freeze up, make bad decisions or would start to dodge and retreat.
Not to knock Quinn - he’s probably a great kid - but man does that sound eerily familiar.
The difference here is that the coaches recognized it pretty quickly and game Romano limited PT despite his heavy credentials coming in .

Lee’s see where we go from here, but If more of the same continues, it’s really time to move on and give some other guys a shot.

Sometimes shiny objects and big investments just don’t pan out

 

[JeremyCuse]

Re: Quinn - someone mentioned him as “practice legend” which triggered a memory.

A few years back, I was staying at the campus Sheraton for a game and I ran into a bunch of player parents at the bar.

At one point , a debate started about Sam Romano and whether he should get more time .

Apparently he too was “practice legend”. One of the fathers said that his son claimed that Romano could not be stopped in practice - he was running circles around everyone else ..but every time he was in a game situation - he seemed to freeze up, make bad decisions or would start to dodge and retreat.
Not to knock Quinn - he’s probably a great kid - but man does that sound eerily familiar.
The difference here is that the coaches recognized it pretty quickly and game Romano limited PT despite his heavy credentials coming in .

Lee’s see where we go from here, but If more of the same continues, it’s really time to move on and give some other guys a shot.

Sometimes shiny objects and big investments just don’t pan out

Interesting story thanks for sharing, Romano was a very highly rated kid coming in but struggled to see much in the way of PT. I could be wrong but I don't recall him getting a fraction of the time Quinn has gotten, either the staff recognized in practice it wouldn't translate or his practice prowess must have faded.

 

[ivorytower]

Sorry, think we are trying to say the same thing. In my mind, I think Bertrand, Cormier and Shellenberger should all have long sticks assigned to them, just tried to lay out who it should be in a perfect world. Obviously that’s not what’s going to happen, and SU needs to be okay with matchups breaking down. They have to slide and hep defenders when they need it, but can’t slide just to slide and create an easy shot for the offense.

Agree, all those should be poled but like plugging one hole that opens another. Every one of our attackman can be shortsticked but you really cant do that with any UVA attackman besides Laviano who actually drew Mellen back in 2018.

ACC player of week Moore is top tier star, probably the best pure dodger in game and most difficult to defend with his size and speed , Cormier a talented canadian who bull dodges and somehow gets to his shooting hand with ease off drive and Shellenberger who sorta resembles Moore with his speed and talent. . Betrand has difficult size to handle for any stick and moves well ( could Fiorini eventually develop into a Betrand , maybe time for audition ) while Aiken is a all time leader who could be on the verge of bust out.. Dont buy dox still rounding into shape, he twisted a Loyola pole in half for score. Overlooked is Garno who moves n rips and then they bring in Dickson, Conner, Quinn who all have their own good attributes .
Tough to defend most individually but we are not a zone team .Just got to muck it up as much as possible, avoid slides that leave field open because all have attackman passing skills... Wykoff availability could offer more interchangeability which may be helpful jumpstarting dormant facets.

Thought Coach comments were generally straightforward and constructive. Minimal prep did factor and that statement does not diminish Army's win, the unusual c19 environment does makes it much more difficult to address and work on issues, positive on team and season as a whole and will seek improvements as displayed.

Im a believer but this weekend may not yet show us near our fullest capability. Gonna take some weeks imo to get it down. Starting with Army n UVA off a 2/1st start is more than challenging

 

[ivorytower]

Interesting story thanks for sharing, Romano was a very highly rated kid coming in but struggled to see much in the way of PT. I could be wrong but I don't recall him getting a fraction of the time Quinn has gotten, either the staff recognized in practice it wouldn't translate or his practice prowess must have faded.

All these kids have talent , sometimes just doesn't happen for various reasons . Quinn and Seebold be first liners somewhere. Riley O'Sullivan was an impossible cover but never happened here. Salcido was a walk on who made it happened. Mental as much as physical when being on a top D1 with variety of talents. Sometimes a change of scenery needed because wrong fit for system or position overload. Pallonetti might not have ever seen field at Maryland but now flourishing at a solid program in Stony Brook. As fan, try to remember these are foremost students and teammates so root for all unless known aholes. Most are happy here regardless of p/t but it is important for happy to find his happy place

 

[ivorytower]

meant" I try to remember"

 

[illestcuse]

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Im a believer but this weekend may not yet show us near our fullest capability. Gonna take some weeks imo to get it down. Starting with Army n UVA off a 2/1st start is more than challenging

By then it will be too late.

 

[ivorytower]

Disagree. Only two games in after UVA then schedule affords some margins to sharpen edges. Be a much better team come Duke and a team to be reckoned with come tourney

 

[Gone]

I agree with Ivory Tower. If we see a big improvement on Saturday but don't pull out the win, I think the season is still up for grabs. Playing well and building confidence will be critical to the Vermont - Hofstra stretch. We will then need to win the majority of our ACC games down the stretch which is a tall order not only for us but for every ACC team. The ACC matchups later in the season will be crazy - and I'm expecting Notre Dame to be very tough. I think all the goalies in the ACC should get free counseling for dealing with nightmares involving Sowers, O'Neill, Gray, Moore, Laviano, Trimboli etc etc

 

[MD Cuse Fan]

I agree with Ivory Tower. If we see a big improvement on Saturday but don't pull out the win, I think the season is still up for grabs. Playing well and building confidence will be critical to the Vermont - Hofstra stretch. We will then need to win the majority of our ACC games down the stretch which is a tall order not only for us but for every ACC team. The ACC matchups later in the season will be crazy - and I'm expecting Notre Dame to be very tough. I think all the goalies in the ACC should get free counseling for dealing with nightmares involving Sowers, O'Neill, Gray, Moore, Laviano, Trimboli etc etc

Exactly, if we see improvement and they lose a close game I'd still feel pretty positive going forward. Let's not forget that UVA, UNC and Duke have already played 4 games that makes a big difference right now.

 

[4evaOrange]

Interesting story thanks for sharing, Romano was a very highly rated kid coming in but struggled to see much in the way of PT. I could be wrong but I don't recall him getting a fraction of the time Quinn has gotten, either the staff recognized in practice it wouldn't translate or his practice prowess must have faded.

Where did he end up again?

 

[Powellfan]

Where did he end up again?

Romano? Nowhere. Just left and didn’t go anywhere. Fun fact, his dad owns The Macaroni Grill and a lot of other fast casual restaurants including Fudruckers I believe.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Romano? Nowhere. Just left and didn’t go anywhere. Fun fact, his dad owns The Macaroni Grill and a lot of other fast casual restaurants including Fudruckers I believe.

He's also an alumnus I think.

 

[sholokov2]

Agree, all those should be poled but like plugging one hole that opens another. Every one of our attackman can be shortsticked but you really cant do that with any UVA attackman besides Laviano who actually drew Mellen back in 2018.

ACC player of week Moore is top tier star, probably the best pure dodger in game and most difficult to defend with his size and speed , Cormier a talented canadian who bull dodges and somehow gets to his shooting hand with ease off drive and Shellenberger who sorta resembles Moore with his speed and talent. . Betrand has difficult size to handle for any stick and moves well ( could Fiorini eventually develop into a Betrand , maybe time for audition ) while Aiken is a all time leader who could be on the verge of bust out.. Dont buy dox still rounding into shape, he twisted a Loyola pole in half for score. Overlooked is Garno who moves n rips and then they bring in Dickson, Conner, Quinn who all have their own good attributes .
Tough to defend most individually but we are not a zone team .Just got to muck it up as much as possible, avoid slides that leave field open because all have attackman passing skills... Wykoff availability could offer more interchangeability which may be helpful jumpstarting dormant facets.

Thought Coach comments were generally straightforward and constructive. Minimal prep did factor and that statement does not diminish Army's win, the unusual c19 environment does makes it much more difficult to address and work on issues, positive on team and season as a whole and will seek improvements as displayed.

Im a believer but this weekend may not yet show us near our fullest capability. Gonna take some weeks imo to get it down. Starting with Army n UVA off a 2/1st start is more than challenging

About poorly timed sliding, I believe the d man sliding too early to help an ssdm or another dman probably lacks trust in the structure or in his teammate to stay with the ball carrier long enough to throw him off line or force a poor shot. Against UVA, SU may have to slide the whole defense every time one dman slides, not just 2nd and 3rd slide, but 4th and 5th, because any of the six UVA offensive players can burn with a pass or shot. That means all defenders must be trusted with all the six UVA attackers. Sounds crazy, but trying to match our defense with UVA seems a fool's errand. For me, the name of defense would be "find the nearest open man" on every single slide. Coordinated defense even when some of the d are weaker than others can slow a great offense. The key is the initial slide must be well timed, meaning the slider has to trust the scheme and the man whom is he helping. Probably not going to happen in the UVA game; however, I would dedicate this week of practice to building trust among the defense both in the scheme and in teammates.

 

[ks orange]

I know the theme of limited practice time has been a theme in explaining the beatdown by Army. However, did anyone watch the women's squad against a top-ranked (#5) Loyola team? Everyone on the Syracuse side was hustling, the passing and stickwork was crisp, and the defense was stifling. Every time a Loyola attacker rolled on a Syracuse defender, she ran into another Orange defender in her face. It was the best demonstration of team defense I have ever seen in the women's game. Gary Gait had the ladies ready to play. Practice time didn't seem to be an issue.

 

[illestcuse]

I know the theme of limited practice time has been a theme in explaining the beatdown by Army. However, did anyone watch the women's squad against a top-ranked (#5) Loyola team? Everyone on the Syracuse side was hustling, the passing and stickwork was crisp, and the defense was stifling. Every time a Loyola attacker rolled on a Syracuse defender, she ran into another Orange defender in her face. It was the best demonstration of team defense I have ever seen in the women's game. Gary Gait had the ladies ready to play. Practice time didn't seem to be an issue.

Mentioned this already in the Army game time thread. The syracuse women’s lacrosse team was also the last spring sport to start practicing. So I found that a little weird that they were able to put that kind of defense together in the amount of time they had, especially since the women’s team is notorious for how horrible their defense has been in recent years. Looks as if the ladies are little more dialed in and focused this time around. Hopefully the men pull it together by this weekend.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Mentioned this already in the Army game time thread. The syracuse women’s lacrosse team was also the last spring sport to start practicing. So I found that a little weird that they were able to put that kind of defense together in the amount of time they had, especially since the women’s team is notorious for how horrible their defense has been in recent years. Looks as if the ladies are little more dialed in and focused this time around. Hopefully the men pull it together by this weekend.

The ladies actually make an effort to get back on defense.

The men run to the box and sub out.

I'd rather get stuck with an O-Mid on defense than No Mid.

 

[SDCuse114]

Interesting story thanks for sharing, Romano was a very highly rated kid coming in but struggled to see much in the way of PT. I could be wrong but I don't recall him getting a fraction of the time Quinn has gotten, either the staff recognized in practice it wouldn't translate or his practice prowess must have faded.

I had such high hopes for Romano

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Mentioned this already in the Army game time thread. The syracuse women’s lacrosse team was also the last spring sport to start practicing. So I found that a little weird that they were able to put that kind of defense together in the amount of time they had, especially since the women’s team is notorious for how horrible their defense has been in recent years. Looks as if the ladies are little more dialed in and focused this time around. Hopefully the men pull it together by this weekend.

Yeah, but look who their coach is. Makes a difference.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Echoing Jeremy here, great article. The quote below sums up everything perfectly -

"The reason Syracuse struggled defensively so much on Sunday was because of the constant movement Army players made. They didn’t rely on individual mismatches to score, instead using mismatches as distractions to run other plays and open up shooters.

That’s why Army’s base set was so effective. Syracuse immediately worried about its short-stick defender getting beat and committed to early slides. That helped the Black Knights create confusion, and the Orange didn’t seem to have the communication needed to make the switches and early slides work."

The SU defense has been doing this for years. I really hope things get figured out quickly. Jeremy did a wonderful job of laying out all the issues in his first post in this thread. But I think the focus on shuffling in new players isn't going to solve all the problems. Certainly some changes need to happen (Hiltz), but the lack of communication and the statuesque movement on defense was a team-wide problem on Sunday.

There are lots of excuses to draw from, some of them certainly legit, but I think a lot of the problems from the Army game stemmed from coaching. If its just one guy getting continually beat each play, yes that is a personnel issue. But the entire team looked "off", to me, almost hungover with their sloppiness. I am certainly not calling for Desko to be fired, but the staff needs to get creative here - they are weeks behind most of their opponents and they aren't suddenly going to gain that back (if they did it would be COVID based and thats not what we want). So how is that fixed? They are limited to two hours of practice a day or zoom meetings. They have to find a way to eliminate these problems on defense and someone has to communicate and emerge as a leader.

Looks like we were both right here, a few Suttle changes and much more aggressive D and ride and a 180 degree turnaround. Communication defensively was light years better and another week of practice clearly helped, turnovers were way down.