The downside of fifth year seniors

[Delmar]

Syracuse basketball has a unique culture. JB does it his own unique way, and it takes a while to get used to. SilentG had a while to soak in the system and was the leader of last year's very flawed team that this also flawed team lacks. Fifth year transfers are freshmen when it comes to knowing SU's system.

I think we will get better. I think we might even get good, but not right away. We have 4 first year players on this team learning the system. I recommend patience, and maybe we will win an ACC tournament game this year. And maybe more.

 

[Delmar]

I should have added Cooney's contribution, too. We defended very well at the top of the zone.

 

[orangehomer]

well it's not just that, they are 5th year transfers for a reason. and the reason is that they mostly aren't good.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The problem is at some point you still need to show signs of improvement and win x number of games. I get the premise. But if things finally come together when we have eliminated ourselves from NCAA tourney contention (always possible), then it's moot as they wont be here next year to continue that learning. Need to keep head above water for now.

 

[Delmar]

well it's not just that, they are 5th year transfers for a reason. and the reason is that they mostly aren't good.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. They're not one and dones, that's for sure, but I am open to them both getting better. White missed a lot tonight, but he hit a shot that Cooney never hit in his 4 years here.

 

[Delmar]

The problem is at some point you still need to show signs of improvement and win x number of games. I get the premise. But if things finally come together when we have eliminated ourselves from NCAA tourney contention (always possible), then it's moot as they wont be here next year to continue that learning. Need to keep head above water for now.

Exactly. Will we win enough games? My concern is that we might have a chance to avenge our loss against Connecticut in late March at MSG. JB has a way of making teams gel. I'm not giving up on this team yet.

 

[pearl31]

JB has a way of making teams gel. I'm not giving up on this team yet.

You're not supposed to say things like this right now.

 

[Delmar]

I lived in Syracuse from 1981-1986 in my first job out of school. That's when I became a fan. Back then (pre-Pearl), people said of JB that
1) he couldn't recruit, and
2) he should have won more with all the talent he had to work with.

900+ wins apparently doesn't buy you a lot of leeway.

 

[Briancuse]

Exactly. Will we win enough games? My concern is that we might have a chance to avenge our loss against Connecticut in late March at MSG. JB has a way of making teams gel. I'm not giving up on this team yet.

I'm not giving up, but I am seriously concerned.

 

[pearl31]

I'm not giving up, but I am seriously concerned.

As we all are.

 

[longislandcuse]

My big fear is Gillon playing any extended minutes on a team that refuses to go M2M. I'd rather put Chukwu up top if Gillon keeps giving us nothing on offense.

 

[OttoMets]

At an unusual defense-first school like Syracuse, a graduate transfer better either be a transcendent offensive talent or be replacing an actual hole in the roster. Because he's not going to defend like Boeheim wants and his teammates need, so he's going to have to make up for it and then some.

This one made more sense in the summer. Full disclosure: I like basketball players who can do several things well and make their teammates better.

 

[longislandcuse]

At an unusual defense-first school like Syracuse, a graduate transfer better either be a transcendent offensive talent or be replacing an actual hole in the roster. Because he's not going to defend like Boeheim wants and his teammates need, so he's going to have to make up for it and then some.

This one made more sense in the summer. Full disclosure: I like basketball players who can do several things well and make their teammates better.

I'm fine with White. I'd take a guy like him every time (assuming he can actually shoot well against better competition, which he's done in his career so I don't see why that won't eventually start to translate). Gillon...not so much, ESPECIALLY at a zone school.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm fine with White. I'd take a guy like him every time (assuming he can actually shoot well against better competition, which he's done in his career so I don't see why that won't eventually start to translate). Gillon...not so much, ESPECIALLY at a zone school.

It's still early, but I just don't know what Gillon does for Syracuse that Joseph couldn't, especially if they'd actually developed him as a sophomore and planned on his playing two more years here. He'd be way ahead defensively (assuming he learned to pick up his arms) and he'd offer some continuity next season.

When White's on, it's fun. But he seems to be good for one selfish empty fast break per game and he wastes a lot of possessions with impossible shots.

His game is actually a lot like sophomore Gbinije's was, only he's a much better shooter now. But court awareness was not a strong suit for either.

 

[SoBristol]

White is our leading scorer. DC2 is playing better than expected on offense. Chukwu did not play last night.

The issues start with the play of the other returning players -- Lydon, Howard, Roberson.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It's still early, but I just don't know what Gillon does for Syracuse that Joseph couldn't, especially if they'd actually developed him as a sophomore and planned on his playing two more years here. He'd be way ahead defensively (assuming he learned to pick up his arms) and he'd offer some continuity next season.

When White's on, it's fun. But he seems to be good for one selfish empty fast break per game and he wastes a lot of possessions with impossible shots.

His game is actually a lot like sophomore Gbinije's was, only he's a much better shooter now. But court awareness was not a strong suit for either.

See, I'd prefer if we actually had BJ Johnson still instead of White. BJ would be so much better in the zone, a much better rebounder, and would likely be making as many shots from 3, but probably with a bit more discipline to them. I really really really wish he had redshirted his first year here and stayed the course.

Kaleb just lost the mental aspect and there was no hope for him. I don't mind Gillon as a few minutes each half kind of player, but he has to get his puny arms up on D.

 

[OttoMets]

See, I'd prefer if we actually had BJ Johnson still instead of White. BJ would be so much better in the zone, a much better rebounder, and would likely be making as many shots from 3, but probably with a bit more discipline to them. I really really really wish he had redshirted his first year here and stayed the course.

Kaleb just lost the mental aspect and there was no hope for him. I don't mind Gillon as a few minutes each half kind of player, but he has to get his puny arms up on D.

I agree about Johnson, but I wasn't ready to give up on Joseph. He was up and down as a freshman, but people lost perspective on how good a freshman point guard on a mediocre team should be (per 40, he was pretty much Jason Hart). He came back bulked up and shooting lights out in the exhibitions, but dasher said that Boeheim had already quit on him. Sure enough, he wasn't given any serious minutes in real games. I think he'd have surprised some people; he obviously had some talent and worked hard over the summer.

 

[tbonezone]

here's my thoughts and a brief analogy of the merits/problems of the 5th yr transfer :
recruiting today is much trickier than it was even a short decade ago. the age of one and done is upon us and even players who would be best served staying in college now regularly fly the coop for the promise of untold riches. (segue music)
so what's a coach to do ? well we all aren't kentucky (who has become more of a nba weigh station than a college program). you have to have a plan B.
now while malachi's early exit (or chris or ennis or grant) wasn't fully anticipated it still has to be weighed as a definite possibility .and if not the draft it might just as easily have been a torn achilles or ACL like mccullough. come spring all the best recruits are gone. and you're left stranded roadside.
so you stick out your thumb and hope someone comes along to get you to the next exit. so let's say A-trey and gillon pull over and offer you a lift. in exchange for that short ride you offer up a little gas money and a bit of exposure. Now are you really in a position to B1tch about their driving ?

 

[two3zone]

I agree about Johnson, but I wasn't ready to give up on Joseph. He was up and down as a freshman, but people lost perspective on how good a freshman point guard on a mediocre team should be (per 40, he was pretty much Jason Hart). He came back bulked up and shooting lights out in the exhibitions, but dasher said that Boeheim had already quit on him. Sure enough, he wasn't given any serious minutes in real games. I think he'd have surprised some people; he obviously had some talent and worked hard over the summer.

And next year he'll be starting for Creighton...