Thoughts as the dust (appears) settled ... for now | Syracusefan.com

Thoughts as the dust (appears) settled ... for now

billsin01

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I was waiting until we thought we had our roster finalized to post some general thoughts on the off-season/next season but, I suppose in this new day and age of college hoops, there is no such thing as a finalized roster. So I suppose this is as good a time as any.

I'm less concerned about positions and specific attributes and more concerned about our offensive and defensive system
This point is obviously ignoring the whole talent piece of the equation (which I'll get to later), but I've heard a ton of discussion on here about true PGs and true 5s and a whole lot of discussion about how we need shooting or ball-handling or rebounding or interior scoring or rim protection. I don't disagree with any of these as obviously a great pure point guard is awesome as is a really good two-way center, etc. But UConn didn't win back-to-back titles because they had the perfect player at each position. They had excellent talent and certainly plenty of all the attributes listed. But they have a really nice system offensively with constant ball and player movement and a really sound defensive system. They pulled away from Purdue with a really effective early help strategy to speed up Edey.

So, point isn't to undersell the value off all the discussion or a good point guard or whatever, it's just that we need to know what we want to be and bring talent in that fits that system. And to that end ...

It feels like we're going to see a very different offense and perhaps a different defensive system this season.
We started Red's first season with what appeared to be an offensive system built around drive-and-kick and tempo and a pressure man style of defense with limited help. The return of Judah and Copeland, the addition of Starling/Westry/Cuffe, parting ways with Joe, Jesse moving on. The moves all pointed in that direction (with the giant exception of the late McLeod addition). After 10 or 12 games (and with no Westry), it became obvious that we needed some adjustments as Judah was doing too much dribbling and McLeod was having major problems on the perimeter defensively. We eventually saw a bit more movement offensively, Brown and Q helped the flow and things looked much better from Feb. on. Defensively we made some adjustments but it was a struggle throughout, IMO.

So heading into next year, it feels like the roster movement and the arrival of Englestad/departure of GMac points in a very different direction. McLeod returns and we add Lampkin, Freeman and Davis -- which should make us tougher inside, but Brown was a really good defender on the perimeter. Will that group -- a true frosh, a guy made for bully ball inside, a 7'4" shot-blocker and whatever Davis ends up being -- be able to switch and hang with perimeter players? Will Bell be able to play average defense in a 30-ish mpg type role? Judah spent a frustrating amount of time being disinterested defensively, or gambling at least 60' away from the basket, but when he cared to, he was a really solid on-ball defender. Can Carlos at 160 lbs hold up there? Can Starling improve on a disappointing defensive performance?

I don't know any of those answers but that doesn't look like a roster of intense man defenders creating havoc and getting out in transition ... at least not to me. (note: I'm not advocating a return to the zone, just wondering if we can really get away with pressure man.)

Offensively, as much vitriol as Judah absorbed and whatever Q was getting up to off the court, those two created a lot of offense. Brown also emerged as a really nice facilitator on the short roll. They're all gone. So this feels much more like offense by committee with more of an inside-out feel (Lampkin and Freeman, maybe some high-low action with both). Have to feel like Bell's and Starling's looks from deep are going to have to come off ball movement and player movement versus Judah/Q creating or hitting Brown off the short roll and his finding shooters.

That's all well and good and could lead to a more pleasing product to watch ... but that depends on what our actual sets look like. We ran more sets and had more cutting/movement as the season went on (even Taylor found a bit of success operating on the baseline). But can Red and co. coach these guys up to such a degree that you lose your three best offensive players, are potentially a bit light on creators, yet you wind up with a more efficient offense? I'm a bit skeptical but it will be interesting to watch.

Can Bell and Starling develop into well-rounded basketball players?
There's always the chance that a healthy Westry comes in and blows us away with his athleticism and versatility -- I'm certainly hoping he does. But that's tough to bank on given his absence from the court for the past two years (more or less). Outside of that, to this point, Red appears to be doubling down on the Bell/Starling combo at the SF and SG spots, respectively.

These guys have done some nice things here for sure -- Bell actually was our second leading scorer if you look at per/40 numbers (and exclude Nico Ruffin). In the per 40, Starling drops to fourth (behind Q and Bell along with Judah) but he was a still at a respectable 15.5 pp40. There were several games we won largely because of Bell -- Colgate, Louisville, at NC State, to name a few -- and Starling was excellent in the win over UNC and was a pretty consistent double-figures guy all year.

BUT both of these guys had holes. Bell's are easy to see -- struggled to rebound and with physicality in general; struggled on defense (when Clemson needed a look late in the shot clock they constantly sought out Bell to attack 1-on-1); and spent much of the year parked on the wing or occasionally floating to a corner. Starling shot terribly early, was great in the middle of the season and struggled at the end. People hated Judah's FT seeking, but Starling was the exact opposite -- never draws contact or gets to the line. Defensively I thought he actually played OK positionally but he just never makes a play on the ball or in the passing lanes. Starling's 1.2 steals/blocks per 40 was the worst number for anyone on the team that played real minutes -- the only other guys under 2.0 steals/blocks per 40 were Bell (1.8) and Taylor (1.6), and even those two were far more impactful. Starling also was limited as a creator -- got to his mid-range pretty well but only got to the rim occasionally on straight-line drives and averaged 1.9 assists (not great) and just 1.2 assists/game from the Georgetown game (mid-December) on.

We lost our three most well-rounded players -- these two need to show significant improvement in other areas of their game. Starling needs to be able to get to the rim and get to the line, he HAS to be more effective defensively, and he likely will need to handle the ball a bit as well. I wouldn't turn down a few more assists either (he actually averaged 3.6 assists/game in our first 9 games). Bell needs to be better moving without the ball, shooting off screens, continue to improve his mid-range and, to whatever extent he can, continue to improve defensively and on the glass. His whole thing, to me, is movement. If he's moving on both ends of the floor he's going to wind up with more rebounds, more loose balls, more blocks and more open shots. He's spent far too much time watching the game the first two years.

Moore and Cuffe will be interesting to watch
JJ and Carlos will get big minutes. Westry, if healthy, could be the third guard. But Red appears to want to play more guys than we have in the past and Cuffe and Moore (probably only one of the two consistently) will get their opportunities.

Cuffe simply getting back on the floor last year is great. Kid has had horrible injury luck. The thing I like best about him is that he very much believes he belongs. He's ready to shoot when he gets the ball, he can be tough defensively, he's pretty strong. Would love to see an improved handle and what he looks like after a healthy off-season.

Moore is someone who has people excited with his shooting/scoring and generally good athleticism (at least from what I can tell from clips I've watched). But shooting doesn't always translate to the college game, at least not immediately. It would be great if he made an impact, but I guess we'll see.

How to evaluate Red?
It's interesting how much the game has changed even in the last couple seasons. I find myself unsure of how to grade Red for a couple of reasons: 1) Where do we stand in terms of NIL? If we are thin there compared to a lot of these other programs, that is a tough spot. And 2) Does high school recruiting matter? It's exciting to hear the Kiyan Anthony developments and maybe a couple highly rated kids come with him ... but how do you fill out the rest of the roster in that scenario?

Everyone wants to get back to the good old days of making the tourney most years and having a shot to be playing on the second weekend ... but is the infrastructure there to support that kind of program? Not sure. Is Red partly responsible for helping cultivate NIL and fundraising? I would guess so, but, again, not really sure how that all works.

It seems fair to say that a rough year this year will certainly make Red's seat a bit warm, but in the new Wild West of college basketball, it may be tough to determine how much of that is Red's fault.

Anyway, I think that's it. If you actually made it this far, I'm impressed. You must have as little going on in your life as I do.
 
Very good post as is your usual.

If we are to be any good, clearly Freeman and Moore have to live up to the hype.

We should be a physically stronger team than last year with the additions of Lampkin and Davis.

We need at least medium steps forward from JJ, Bell, and Cuffe.

Carlos needs to prove he can play at this level.

That is a lot of questions that need answering, but the good news is that it does not appear any of the above are unreasonable asks.

If any of the above dont work out, we still have a hope that Westry can come back from his two year hiatus as a "replacement". If Westry is healthy I would expect gradual improvement from him throughout the season as a gets his feet wet. Maybe he even becomes a key cog by end of season.

As for MacLeod, his size alone makes him a potentially decent 10 to 15 MPG backup, but beyond that he didnt show me enough last season to create an expectation of his being a real force. Hope I am wrong on that take.

As for Red, I thought he did a nice job last season with the pieces that we had.

The big issue is that in these current days of the portal there is so much roster turnover, and much of that turnover involves replacing players with players with different skillsets, that it is hard for a new, young coach to create a system.

Bottom line, we have some hope and we have a chance to be decent, but long term unless we can step up the portal/recruiting game we will not return to the glory days anytime soon.
 
well as far as the roster construction part goes . we started off last season playing 8 or 9 deep and due to unforeseen circumstances ended the season playing 6. if you think we're deep enuf. think again.
 
Very good post as is your usual.

If we are to be any good, clearly Freeman and Moore have to live up to the hype.

We should be a physically stronger team than last year with the additions of Lampkin and Davis.

We need at least medium steps forward from JJ, Bell, and Cuffe.

Carlos needs to prove he can play at this level.

That is a lot of questions that need answering, but the good news is that it does not appear any of the above are unreasonable asks.

If any of the above dont work out, we still have a hope that Westry can come back from his two year hiatus as a "replacement". If Westry is healthy I would expect gradual improvement from him throughout the season as a gets his feet wet. Maybe he even becomes a key cog by end of season.

As for MacLeod, his size alone makes him a potentially decent 10 to 15 MPG backup, but beyond that he didnt show me enough last season to create an expectation of his being a real force. Hope I am wrong on that take.

As for Red, I thought he did a nice job last season with the pieces that we had.

The big issue is that in these current days of the portal there is so much roster turnover, and much of that turnover involves replacing players with players with different skillsets, that it is hard for a new, young coach to create a system.

Bottom line, we have some hope and we have a chance to be decent, but long term unless we can step up the portal/recruiting game we will not return to the glory days anytime soon.
Yeah, a system probably means something much more broad these days than JB's system -- i.e. zone, motion offense. Today, for Red, it's probably more of a set of general concepts that can be adjusted somewhat to personnel.

Agree with all your points. My main concern is do we have enough 'basketball players.' JJ, Bell, McLeod, and Cuffe all can do certain things and it seems like the transfers fit in a way that may address weaknesses from last year (Carlos at the point, Lampkin with size/post scoring/rebounding, Davis a bit more physical presence at forward) and the newcomers (westry included) certainly seem to have potential. But how many of those guys can make an impact that truly helps you win games consistently? Can they impact the game in multiple ways?

That's where i get a bit concerned because I'm not sure i see it. But I'd love to be wrong.
 
well as far as the roster construction part goes . we started off last season playing 8 or 9 deep and due to unforeseen circumstances ended the season playing 6. if you think we're deep enuf. think again.
I'm not sure how possible true depth is in these NIL/nonstop transfer days. To be fair -- we essentially started last season with three guys on the shelf that we thought would have at least been healthy (Westry/Carey/Hima) and then dismissed a player during the season.

So injuries like McLeod's happen during the season but hopefully we won't lose quite so much before the season begins this season. But, to your point, it would feel better to at least add a piece or two if possible.
 
I'm not sure how possible true depth is in these NIL/nonstop transfer days. To be fair -- we essentially started last season with three guys on the shelf that we thought would have at least been healthy (Westry/Carey/Hima) and then dismissed a player during the season.

So injuries like McLeod's happen during the season but hopefully we won't lose quite so much before the season begins this season. But, to your point, it would feel better to at least add a piece or two if possible.
Need more than a 10 player roster. The good news is that in the game of musical chairs that is the portal, some decent players will not find a chair. If we are smart enough to identify those guys we will be able to add some decent players at reasonable NIL $$$.
 
I was waiting until we thought we had our roster finalized to post some general thoughts on the off-season/next season but, I suppose in this new day and age of college hoops, there is no such thing as a finalized roster. So I suppose this is as good a time as any.

I'm less concerned about positions and specific attributes and more concerned about our offensive and defensive system
This point is obviously ignoring the whole talent piece of the equation (which I'll get to later), but I've heard a ton of discussion on here about true PGs and true 5s and a whole lot of discussion about how we need shooting or ball-handling or rebounding or interior scoring or rim protection. I don't disagree with any of these as obviously a great pure point guard is awesome as is a really good two-way center, etc. But UConn didn't win back-to-back titles because they had the perfect player at each position. They had excellent talent and certainly plenty of all the attributes listed. But they have a really nice system offensively with constant ball and player movement and a really sound defensive system. They pulled away from Purdue with a really effective early help strategy to speed up Edey.

So, point isn't to undersell the value off all the discussion or a good point guard or whatever, it's just that we need to know what we want to be and bring talent in that fits that system. And to that end ...

It feels like we're going to see a very different offense and perhaps a different defensive system this season.
We started Red's first season with what appeared to be an offensive system built around drive-and-kick and tempo and a pressure man style of defense with limited help. The return of Judah and Copeland, the addition of Starling/Westry/Cuffe, parting ways with Joe, Jesse moving on. The moves all pointed in that direction (with the giant exception of the late McLeod addition). After 10 or 12 games (and with no Westry), it became obvious that we needed some adjustments as Judah was doing too much dribbling and McLeod was having major problems on the perimeter defensively. We eventually saw a bit more movement offensively, Brown and Q helped the flow and things looked much better from Feb. on. Defensively we made some adjustments but it was a struggle throughout, IMO.

So heading into next year, it feels like the roster movement and the arrival of Englestad/departure of GMac points in a very different direction. McLeod returns and we add Lampkin, Freeman and Davis -- which should make us tougher inside, but Brown was a really good defender on the perimeter. Will that group -- a true frosh, a guy made for bully ball inside, a 7'4" shot-blocker and whatever Davis ends up being -- be able to switch and hang with perimeter players? Will Bell be able to play average defense in a 30-ish mpg type role? Judah spent a frustrating amount of time being disinterested defensively, or gambling at least 60' away from the basket, but when he cared to, he was a really solid on-ball defender. Can Carlos at 160 lbs hold up there? Can Starling improve on a disappointing defensive performance?

I don't know any of those answers but that doesn't look like a roster of intense man defenders creating havoc and getting out in transition ... at least not to me. (note: I'm not advocating a return to the zone, just wondering if we can really get away with pressure man.)

Offensively, as much vitriol as Judah absorbed and whatever Q was getting up to off the court, those two created a lot of offense. Brown also emerged as a really nice facilitator on the short roll. They're all gone. So this feels much more like offense by committee with more of an inside-out feel (Lampkin and Freeman, maybe some high-low action with both). Have to feel like Bell's and Starling's looks from deep are going to have to come off ball movement and player movement versus Judah/Q creating or hitting Brown off the short roll and his finding shooters.

That's all well and good and could lead to a more pleasing product to watch ... but that depends on what our actual sets look like. We ran more sets and had more cutting/movement as the season went on (even Taylor found a bit of success operating on the baseline). But can Red and co. coach these guys up to such a degree that you lose your three best offensive players, are potentially a bit light on creators, yet you wind up with a more efficient offense? I'm a bit skeptical but it will be interesting to watch.

Can Bell and Starling develop into well-rounded basketball players?
There's always the chance that a healthy Westry comes in and blows us away with his athleticism and versatility -- I'm certainly hoping he does. But that's tough to bank on given his absence from the court for the past two years (more or less). Outside of that, to this point, Red appears to be doubling down on the Bell/Starling combo at the SF and SG spots, respectively.

These guys have done some nice things here for sure -- Bell actually was our second leading scorer if you look at per/40 numbers (and exclude Nico Ruffin). In the per 40, Starling drops to fourth (behind Q and Bell along with Judah) but he was a still at a respectable 15.5 pp40. There were several games we won largely because of Bell -- Colgate, Louisville, at NC State, to name a few -- and Starling was excellent in the win over UNC and was a pretty consistent double-figures guy all year.

BUT both of these guys had holes. Bell's are easy to see -- struggled to rebound and with physicality in general; struggled on defense (when Clemson needed a look late in the shot clock they constantly sought out Bell to attack 1-on-1); and spent much of the year parked on the wing or occasionally floating to a corner. Starling shot terribly early, was great in the middle of the season and struggled at the end. People hated Judah's FT seeking, but Starling was the exact opposite -- never draws contact or gets to the line. Defensively I thought he actually played OK positionally but he just never makes a play on the ball or in the passing lanes. Starling's 1.2 steals/blocks per 40 was the worst number for anyone on the team that played real minutes -- the only other guys under 2.0 steals/blocks per 40 were Bell (1.8) and Taylor (1.6), and even those two were far more impactful. Starling also was limited as a creator -- got to his mid-range pretty well but only got to the rim occasionally on straight-line drives and averaged 1.9 assists (not great) and just 1.2 assists/game from the Georgetown game (mid-December) on.

We lost our three most well-rounded players -- these two need to show significant improvement in other areas of their game. Starling needs to be able to get to the rim and get to the line, he HAS to be more effective defensively, and he likely will need to handle the ball a bit as well. I wouldn't turn down a few more assists either (he actually averaged 3.6 assists/game in our first 9 games). Bell needs to be better moving without the ball, shooting off screens, continue to improve his mid-range and, to whatever extent he can, continue to improve defensively and on the glass. His whole thing, to me, is movement. If he's moving on both ends of the floor he's going to wind up with more rebounds, more loose balls, more blocks and more open shots. He's spent far too much time watching the game the first two years.

Moore and Cuffe will be interesting to watch
JJ and Carlos will get big minutes. Westry, if healthy, could be the third guard. But Red appears to want to play more guys than we have in the past and Cuffe and Moore (probably only one of the two consistently) will get their opportunities.

Cuffe simply getting back on the floor last year is great. Kid has had horrible injury luck. The thing I like best about him is that he very much believes he belongs. He's ready to shoot when he gets the ball, he can be tough defensively, he's pretty strong. Would love to see an improved handle and what he looks like after a healthy off-season.

Moore is someone who has people excited with his shooting/scoring and generally good athleticism (at least from what I can tell from clips I've watched). But shooting doesn't always translate to the college game, at least not immediately. It would be great if he made an impact, but I guess we'll see.

How to evaluate Red?
It's interesting how much the game has changed even in the last couple seasons. I find myself unsure of how to grade Red for a couple of reasons: 1) Where do we stand in terms of NIL? If we are thin there compared to a lot of these other programs, that is a tough spot. And 2) Does high school recruiting matter? It's exciting to hear the Kiyan Anthony developments and maybe a couple highly rated kids come with him ... but how do you fill out the rest of the roster in that scenario?

Everyone wants to get back to the good old days of making the tourney most years and having a shot to be playing on the second weekend ... but is the infrastructure there to support that kind of program? Not sure. Is Red partly responsible for helping cultivate NIL and fundraising? I would guess so, but, again, not really sure how that all works.

It seems fair to say that a rough year this year will certainly make Red's seat a bit warm, but in the new Wild West of college basketball, it may be tough to determine how much of that is Red's fault.

Anyway, I think that's it. If you actually made it this far, I'm impressed. You must have as little going on in your life as I do.
I sure hope there is a system this year because last year looked like a YMCA pickup game all year long. Jj and bell aren’t going to be the ones to deliver that so the support characters NEED to be efficient enough to drive a significant amount of system adoption. I truly hope that the issue was the guys just didn’t listen to red and not that red had no idea how to implement a system.
 
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how little mention (enthusiasm? expectation?) there is about Freeman. First, he's the highest-rated player recruited by Cuse in a long while. Next, with his stock increasing dramatically toward the very end of his HS career, maybe his play increases on that same late trajectory, giving SU a truly extraordinary forward on the court. Lastly, the word is that he's full 6'9" maybe even taller. Just seems to me that his potential for being a "special" contributor is being overlooked a bit.
 
I feel like people are sleeping on Davis. Maybe he won't pan out but he seems to have skills we've missed through the years.

Yep I agree. He played out of position like Maliq had to which impacted his efficiency numbers a good bit. There is a lot to work with here- albeit I know the metrics folks will jump on me but I think he is gonna look like a steal.
 
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how little mention (enthusiasm? expectation?) there is about Freeman. First, he's the highest-rated player recruited by Cuse in a long while. Next, with his stock increasing dramatically toward the very end of his HS career, maybe his play increases on that same late trajectory, giving SU a truly extraordinary forward on the court. Lastly, the word is that he's full 6'9" maybe even taller. Just seems to me that his potential for being a "special" contributor is being overlooked a bit.

I think he will be huge for us but I also think that having so many older teams is making it much harder on even the top freshmen… not just playing against them but also all the roster movement as they get settled on campus.
 
I sure hope there is a system this year because last year looked like a YMCA pickup game all year long. Jj and bell aren’t going to be the ones to deliver that so the support characters NEED to be efficient enough to drive a significant amount of system adoption. I truly hope that the issue was the guys just didn’t listen to red and not that red had no idea how to implement a system.

Yeah watching for the same myself. Also we don’t agree on much but we do both agree on Carlos being undervalued too much by a lot of folks. He can help with running a legit system. Defense will be our biggest limiting factor I fear.
 
Great post

Looking big picture, there are 3 big “bets” the staff is taking with the roster

1 - Freeman having a huge freshman year. Meaning being above average ACC or better

2 - Westry being healthy and a material contributor

3 - Carlos being underrated and being a solid starting PG

If all three pan out, I see us dancing without any bubble stress. However that’s a big “if,” and if all three fail we could be looking a losing record

I think Red did the best anyone could last year. However this year he’s had much more time to construct a roster and this year will be interesting. I see reasons to be positive but can also see the wheels come off too
 
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how little mention (enthusiasm? expectation?) there is about Freeman. First, he's the highest-rated player recruited by Cuse in a long while. Next, with his stock increasing dramatically toward the very end of his HS career, maybe his play increases on that same late trajectory, giving SU a truly extraordinary forward on the court. Lastly, the word is that he's full 6'9" maybe even taller. Just seems to me that his potential for being a "special" contributor is being overlooked a bit.

I’m excited to see him but look at the big time freshman in recent years. The top freshman, in general, seemed to be on average/below average teams.

Look at this list. Bub was 0-10 when we played Pitt the second time and he’s a probable 1st round pick.

If Freeman can just be a solid contributor, it would be huge

 
Yeah watching for the same myself. Also we don’t agree on much but we do both agree on Carlos being undervalued too much by a lot of folks. He can help with running a legit system. Defense will be our biggest limiting factor I fear.
He can be both undervalued and not a 30 minute a game guy. He would be perfect in a role we thought Symir would fill when he came in.
 
He can be both undervalued and not a 30 minute a game guy. He would be perfect in a role we thought Symir would fill when he came in.

That ship has sailed at this point so 26 mpg kind of player is where I hope he is a t
 
That ship has sailed at this point so 26 mpg kind of player is where I hope he is a t
I know it has, but him being pushed into more minutes didn't make him any more skilled than when he came in to back up the multiple options that staffed prioritized over him.

I like him, he seems to play a style I really like when i rewatched the Duke game but like in that game, there will be flashes of great but looking below average in some important skills he needs in this league.
 
He can be both undervalued and not a 30 minute a game guy. He would be perfect in a role we thought Symir would fill when he came in.

This is pretty much where I'm at. I like Carlos a lot I'm just not sold on him being a 30 min starting level ACC PG. I hope I'm wrong or Chance is healthy and the savant some claim him to be. I'd love some insurance in case neither is true.
 
This is pretty much where I'm at. I like Carlos a lot I'm just not sold on him being a 30 min starting level ACC PG. I hope I'm wrong or Chance is healthy and the savant some claim him to be. I'd love some insurance in case neither is true.

We need Chance to be the dude we hoped he would be plain and simple. He is really the true “ big catch “ this portal season even if he came on last year.
 
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Reading this thread, I'm struck by how little mention (enthusiasm? expectation?) there is about Freeman. First, he's the highest-rated player recruited by Cuse in a long while. Next, with his stock increasing dramatically toward the very end of his HS career, maybe his play increases on that same late trajectory, giving SU a truly extraordinary forward on the court. Lastly, the word is that he's full 6'9" maybe even taller. Just seems to me that his potential for being a "special" contributor is being overlooked a bit.
The thing about Freeman is we haven't had anybody like him since Donte Greene. Green was ranked 9th in his RSCI final ranking and walked right into a starting role. Freeman will be ranked somewhere around that ranking, and we presume, will also start as a true freshman.

Other highly ranked freshman forwards who started early were Chris McCullough (before injury) and Oshea Brisset. (Brisset doesn't have a RSCI rating, being Canadian.) Going back farther than that, the comps are Warrick, Anthony and Wallace, which both goes back to antiquity and gives unfair legendary comps.

Other top versatile big forwards, like Guerrier, Jeremi Grant, Kris Joseph and CJ Fair didn't get starting until second or later seasons.

Looking at Greene, Brisset and McCullough, we can expect perhaps a 9ppg, 7rpg and 2bpg like McCullough, or maybe a 17ppg, 7 rpg and 1.5 bpg like Greene, or maybe even a 15, 9 and 1 that Brisset put up.

My prediction for Freeman is 15 points, 6 rebounds and 1 block per game. Freeman's best skill is his scoring versatility, and I think playing with experienced guys like Starling, Lampkin and Bell will allow him to avoid to much defensive attention at first while he feels his way out.

I think these are realistic expectations for a guy as physically talented as Freeman, with experienced teammates that won't force him to carry the whole load like Greene did on a team with Devendorf the only returning upperclassmen amongst a bunch of newcomers.

Later in the season, the teams offensive versatility (ability to score in the post, off dribble penetration and from the three point line) will complement Freeman's ability to also score from three levels and we're going to be very pleased.

I think the team might score 80/game with all 5 starters in double digits. I think Westry is the 5th starter, btw.

The question is if we'll be giving up less than we score often enough.
 
The thing about Freeman is we haven't had anybody like him since Donte Greene. Green was ranked 9th in his RSCI final ranking and walked right into a starting role. Freeman will be ranked somewhere around that ranking, and we presume, will also start as a true freshman.

Other highly ranked freshman forwards who started early were Chris McCullough (before injury) and Oshea Brisset. (Brisset doesn't have a RSCI rating, being Canadian.) Going back farther than that, the comps are Warrick, Anthony and Wallace, which both goes back to antiquity and gives unfair legendary comps.

Other top versatile big forwards, like Guerrier, Jeremi Grant, Kris Joseph and CJ Fair didn't get starting until second or later seasons.

Looking at Greene, Brisset and McCullough, we can expect perhaps a 9ppg, 7rpg and 2bpg like McCullough, or maybe a 17ppg, 7 rpg and 1.5 bpg like Greene, or maybe even a 15, 9 and 1 that Brisset put up.

My prediction for Freeman is 15 points, 6 rebounds and 1 block per game. Freeman's best skill is his scoring versatility, and I think playing with experienced guys like Starling, Lampkin and Bell will allow him to avoid to much defensive attention at first while he feels his way out.

I think these are realistic expectations for a guy as physically talented as Freeman, with experienced teammates that won't force him to carry the whole load like Greene did on a team with Devendorf the only returning upperclassmen amongst a bunch of newcomers.

Later in the season, the teams offensive versatility (ability to score in the post, off dribble penetration and from the three point line) will complement Freeman's ability to also score from three levels and we're going to be very pleased.

I think the team might score 80/game with all 5 starters in double digits. I think Westry is the 5th starter, btw.

The question is if we'll be giving up less than we score often enough.
Andy injured during the summer, and Eric done in the 10th game making a layup in Greens freshman year.
That might have been a great team if those 2 didn't get hurt.
 
Andy injured during the summer, and Eric done in the 10th game making a layup in Greens freshman year.
That might have been a great team if those 2 didn't get hurt.
True... I had forgotten Devendorf was injured. It was Flynn, Harris and Greene's team after Devendorf was injured. They would be good that year, with great talent. But would have been so much better with good injury luck. I actually was shocked to see Devendorf on that roster. My strongest memory of that team was the young guys on that team showing the dynasty symbol early in a game they would go on to lose.
 
The thing about Freeman is we haven't had anybody like him since Donte Greene. Green was ranked 9th in his RSCI final ranking and walked right into a starting role. Freeman will be ranked somewhere around that ranking, and we presume, will also start as a true freshman.

Other highly ranked freshman forwards who started early were Chris McCullough (before injury) and Oshea Brisset. (Brisset doesn't have a RSCI rating, being Canadian.) Going back farther than that, the comps are Warrick, Anthony and Wallace, which both goes back to antiquity and gives unfair legendary comps.

Other top versatile big forwards, like Guerrier, Jeremi Grant, Kris Joseph and CJ Fair didn't get starting until second or later seasons.

Looking at Greene, Brisset and McCullough, we can expect perhaps a 9ppg, 7rpg and 2bpg like McCullough, or maybe a 17ppg, 7 rpg and 1.5 bpg like Greene, or maybe even a 15, 9 and 1 that Brisset put up.

My prediction for Freeman is 15 points, 6 rebounds and 1 block per game. Freeman's best skill is his scoring versatility, and I think playing with experienced guys like Starling, Lampkin and Bell will allow him to avoid to much defensive attention at first while he feels his way out.

I think these are realistic expectations for a guy as physically talented as Freeman, with experienced teammates that won't force him to carry the whole load like Greene did on a team with Devendorf the only returning upperclassmen amongst a bunch of newcomers.

Later in the season, the teams offensive versatility (ability to score in the post, off dribble penetration and from the three point line) will complement Freeman's ability to also score from three levels and we're going to be very pleased.

I think the team might score 80/game with all 5 starters in double digits. I think Westry is the 5th starter, btw.

The question is if we'll be giving up less than we score often enough.
I would be shocked if he averaged anywhere near 15 a game. More like 10 or 11. And that would be fine.
 
I would be shocked if he averaged anywhere near 15 a game. More like 10 or 11. And that would be fine.

Yeah. Agree with Dasher, here. 10-12 ppg and being efficient is much more important than a higher ppg but inefficient.

This kid has talent but he doesn’t have a real bag yet to be an efficient high end scorer at this level.

Get your buckets, board, play defense like a beast. Let the game come to you.
 

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