The Estimi film study today link

[upperdeck]

if you look at the first play, SU has 2 wideouts , one outside the numbers one almost on the numbers.. we spread the field wide.. Look familiar? almost a carbon copy of what the Baylor SI study showed. one big difference though.. when baylor ran it they covered one side with a free safety. that left 6 in the box and helped the running game.. notice wake doesnt bother. you can scheme only so much but teams have to respect the threats you offer them. if they are going to play man with zero safety help you have to go over the top and make the big play. until we can do that scheme wont help no matter how smart the coach is..

Broyld had the one deep shot last week with no safety help and we missed the throw.. you put the D in this spot enough times you have to hit one..

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I, for one, am delighted to see us hit some long balls this year. There were years when we wouldn't throw long. Period.

 

[All4SU]

Also confirms that our WRs have to do a much better job blocking.

 

[Crusty]

If Nassib could hit the long ball he might be starting for someone in the NFL now. As far as I can tell, it is his only real weak spot. Maybe it is me, because I want to see him succeed, but I think Hunt is a lot closer than Nassib ever was with the long ball. I remember Ryan throwing it out of bounds many time on long balls and I don't see Hunt doing that.

The TD he threw in the Tulane game (to West?) was absolute right on the money. Am I just Orange blind?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think the scheme is fine, more football speed everywhere. Which why is there no speed in the Northeast?

 

[Millhouse]

if you look at the first play, SU has 2 wideouts , one outside the numbers one almost on the numbers.. we spread the field wide.. Look familiar? almost a carbon copy of what the Baylor SI study showed. one big difference though.. when baylor ran it they covered one side with a free safety. that left 6 in the box and helped the running game.. notice wake doesnt bother. you can scheme only so much but teams have to respect the threats you offer them. if they are going to play man with zero safety help you have to go over the top and make the big play. until we can do that scheme wont help no matter how smart the coach is..

Broyld had the one deep shot last week with no safety help and we missed the throw.. you put the D in this spot enough times you have to hit one..

simply putting WR closer to the side line is such a simple wrinkle that should've been obvious to everyone but wasn't obvious to anyone but briles.

how many years has it taken football to figure out that if guys are further away from the guy with the ball, it might be harder to tackle the guy with the ball

but meatheads don't like it. how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

ok guys we need 1 yard. here's what we're going to do. We're going to create a pile of 15 fat guys. Got it? OK, then what we're going to do is, stay with me here, this is key... we're going to run as fast as we can into that pile of fat guys.

Hey coach what if instead of creating a giant pile of fat on purpose and then running into that pile of fat on purpose, we forced the defense to cover guys so that there's less chance of our fast guy hitting a wall of fat?

SHUT UP @GGOT AND BUY US DINNER I HUNGRY FEED ME



i'm encouraged to see this and I didn't notice it during the game (the rhythmic punting back and forth 123PUNT123PUNT123PUNT was like counting sheep, I dozed off)

 

[Orangepace]

simply putting WR closer to the side line is such a simple wrinkle that should've been obvious to everyone but wasn't obvious to anyone but briles.

how many years has it taken football to figure out that if guys are further away from the guy with the ball, it might be harder to tackle the guy with the ball

but meatheads don't like it. how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

ok guys we need 1 yard. here's what we're going to do. We're going to create a pile of 15 fat guys. Got it? OK, then what we're going to do is, stay with me here, this is key... we're going to run as fast as we can into that pile of fat guys.

Hey coach what if instead of creating a giant pile of fat on purpose and then running into that pile of fat on purpose, we forced the defense to cover guys so that there's less chance of our fast guy hitting a wall of fat?

SHUT UP @GGOT AND BUY US DINNER I HUNGRY FEED ME



i'm encouraged to see this and I didn't notice it during the game (the rhythmic punting back and forth 123PUNT123PUNT123PUNT was like counting sheep, I dozed off)

If I could like this post more than once, or nominate it for greatest post of all time, I wouldn't hesitate.

Spot on and the humor given the NFL situation...Bravo good sir

 

[TheCusian]

if you look at the first play, SU has 2 wideouts , one outside the numbers one almost on the numbers.. we spread the field wide.. Look familiar? almost a carbon copy of what the Baylor SI study showed. one big difference though.. when baylor ran it they covered one side with a free safety. that left 6 in the box and helped the running game.. notice wake doesnt bother. you can scheme only so much but teams have to respect the threats you offer them. if they are going to play man with zero safety help you have to go over the top and make the big play. until we can do that scheme wont help no matter how smart the coach is..

Broyld had the one deep shot last week with no safety help and we missed the throw.. you put the D in this spot enough times you have to hit one..

Don't remember exactly - but Hunt hit on one of those deep throws didn't he? To West maybe?

 

[Orangepace]

Don't remember exactly - but Hunt hit on one of those deep throws didn't he? To West maybe?

1 of about 6 in the game. Not good.

 

[NKR1978]

simply putting WR closer to the side line is such a simple wrinkle that should've been obvious to everyone but wasn't obvious to anyone but briles.

how many years has it taken football to figure out that if guys are further away from the guy with the ball, it might be harder to tackle the guy with the ball

but meatheads don't like it. how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

ok guys we need 1 yard. here's what we're going to do. We're going to create a pile of 15 fat guys. Got it? OK, then what we're going to do is, stay with me here, this is key... we're going to run as fast as we can into that pile of fat guys.

Hey coach what if instead of creating a giant pile of fat on purpose and then running into that pile of fat on purpose, we forced the defense to cover guys so that there's less chance of our fast guy hitting a wall of fat?

SHUT UP @GGOT AND BUY US DINNER I HUNGRY FEED ME



i'm encouraged to see this and I didn't notice it during the game (the rhythmic punting back and forth 123PUNT123PUNT123PUNT was like counting sheep, I dozed off)

By the end I was laughing to the point where a paralegal came and shut my office door.

 

[TheCusian]

simply putting WR closer to the side line is such a simple wrinkle that should've been obvious to everyone but wasn't obvious to anyone but briles.

how many years has it taken football to figure out that if guys are further away from the guy with the ball, it might be harder to tackle the guy with the ball

but meatheads don't like it. how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

ok guys we need 1 yard. here's what we're going to do. We're going to create a pile of 15 fat guys. Got it? OK, then what we're going to do is, stay with me here, this is key... we're going to run as fast as we can into that pile of fat guys.

Hey coach what if instead of creating a giant pile of fat on purpose and then running into that pile of fat on purpose, we forced the defense to cover guys so that there's less chance of our fast guy hitting a wall of fat?

SHUT UP @GGOT AND BUY US DINNER I HUNGRY FEED ME



i'm encouraged to see this and I didn't notice it during the game (the rhythmic punting back and forth 123PUNT123PUNT123PUNT was like counting sheep, I dozed off)

You're preaching to the choir. I think everyone outside of the B1G and BC is at least trying to incorporate a more spread look. The other determining factor is what the NFL is doing - it's been more wide open the last bunch of years (the rules pushed it over the edge) - I'd bet the sport continues in that direction.

I think GM looks at the dome the same way we have for so long: controlled environment > speed.

 

[TheCusian]

1 of about 6 in the game. Not good.

Agreed. But I think the combination of that pass and Jerome starting to heat up in the 3rd Q, made it look like we got out of the quick sand both teams had been in.

 

[upperdeck]

if nothing else the 4 wide look means its 7 in the box and not 8-9. even we cant complete a pass out of it.. I wonder what Ok would have done back in the day with a QB that you couldnt tackle with one guy running out of this formation.. every time teams dont cover it with a safety you should throw deep. even 1 out of 10 is more than we scored in the first half last week.. if you can get the QB to throw just avg on the run it becomes even harder to stop.. why is NE the only team that runs the 4 wide QB sneak?

 

[Millhouse]

if nothing else the 4 wide look means its 7 in the box and not 8-9. even we cant complete a pass out of it.. I wonder what Ok would have done back in the day with a QB that you couldnt tackle with one guy running out of this formation.. every time teams dont cover it with a safety you should throw deep. even 1 out of 10 is more than we scored in the first half last week.. if you can get the QB to throw just avg on the run it becomes even harder to stop.. why is NE the only team that runs the 4 wide QB sneak?

can you imagine SU's mid to late 90s talent with a 2013 scheme.

not a shot at pasqualoni, it's not like lots of other teams were doing it

belichick might be lots of things (cheating jerk) but meathead isn't one of them

how long did it take football to figure out that the no huddle works? bills only went to 4 super bowls in a row but they didn't win so aha time of possession still is the key! (except on 4th and short, time of possession stops mattering then)

levy is bright (despite being a punter... super bowl 25 UGH). belichick is bright.

 

[chakka3421]

simply putting WR closer to the side line is such a simple wrinkle that should've been obvious to everyone but wasn't obvious to anyone but briles.

how many years has it taken football to figure out that if guys are further away from the guy with the ball, it might be harder to tackle the guy with the ball

but meatheads don't like it. how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

ok guys we need 1 yard. here's what we're going to do. We're going to create a pile of 15 fat guys. Got it? OK, then what we're going to do is, stay with me here, this is key... we're going to run as fast as we can into that pile of fat guys.

Hey coach what if instead of creating a giant pile of fat on purpose and then running into that pile of fat on purpose, we forced the defense to cover guys so that there's less chance of our fast guy hitting a wall of fat?

SHUT UP @GGOT AND BUY US DINNER I HUNGRY FEED ME



i'm encouraged to see this and I didn't notice it during the game (the rhythmic punting back and forth 123PUNT123PUNT123PUNT was like counting sheep, I dozed off)

Not so fast - problem with the spread is it works in theory only unless you have a great QB threat coupled with great WRs that must be able to also block otherwise it won't really work that well. Fast & talented WRs with great open space blocking abilities are really hard to find.

What the power run game gives you is the ability, with great blocking from those fat guys as that is what they are good at, is having a D Carter/J Smith type back to have great gains between the tackles (thunder) and having a A Bailey/PTG type scat back (lightning) to mix it up with a combo run/pass release RB. Your big gains come from running, not passing except dink & dunk passing that is 20 yards or less just to keep the defense honest.

The power run attack works far better when you lack talent - and that worked well under Marrone & Co. If Gmac can recruit more players like Estime with both speed and who isn't afraid to use his small body to actually block in space, the we are in for a complete change to our offense and I suspect Gmac could become the next great OC guru.

Really it all comes down to recruiting otherwise Gmac will end up looking like a fool. Although it seems like we are headed in a different direction, I hope Gmac sticks with the power run attack more often for the remainder of this year as that scheme matches the talent that's on the field right now.

 

[Millhouse]

Not so fast - problem with the spread is it works in theory only unless you have a great QB threat coupled with great WRs that must be able to also block otherwise it won't really work that well. WRs with great open space blocking abilities are really hard to find.

What the power run game gives you is the ability, with great blocking from those fat guys as that is what they are good at, is having a D Carter/J Smith type back to have great gains between the tackles (thunder) and having a A Bailey/PTG type scat back (lightning) to mix it up with a combo run/pass release RB. Your big gains come from running, not passing except 20 yards or less to keep the defense honest.

The power run attack works far better when you lack talent - and that worked well under Marrone & Co. If Gmac. An recruit more players like Estime with both speed and who isn't afraid to use his small body to actually block in space, the we are in for a complete change to our offense and I suspect Gmac could become the next OC guru.

Really it all comes down to recruiting otherwise Gmac will end up looking like a fool. Although it seems like we are headed in a different direction, I hope Gmac sticks with the power run attack more often as that scheme matches the talent that's on the field right now.

then why are the worst programs at the forefront of the spread? why do these teams just keep plugging in effective qbs one after another?

Meatheads 10 years late to the party only catch on after these programs have attracted good players with their great schemes. they assume those players are always there . they don't bother to check how those schools did within a year or two of installing the offense and they don't bother to check how terrible the offenses were before.

10 years ago it's just a gimmick for terrible teams. now it's just a luxury for great teams. not buying it

 

[chakka3421]

then why are the worst programs at the forefront of the spread? why do these teams just keep plugging in effective qbs one after another?

Meatheads 10 years late to the party only catch on after these programs have attracted good players with their great schemes. they assume those players are always there . they don't bother to check how those schools did within a year or two of installing the offense and they don't bother to check how terrible the offenses were before.

10 years ago it's just a gimmick for terrible teams. now it's just a luxury for great teams. not buying it

Wake Forest runs the spread - how well did it work for them on Saturday when they lost their best receiver - not buying it from you either.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

how can my meathead smash your meathead if your meathead is all the way over there? must get that meathead closer so my meathead can smash

Much like punters gotta punt, this needs to be on a t-shirt.

 

[money3189]

Not so fast - problem with the spread is it works in theory only unless you have a great QB threat coupled with great WRs that must be able to also block otherwise it won't really work that well. Fast & talented WRs with great open space blocking abilities are really hard to find.

What the power run game gives you is the ability, with great blocking from those fat guys as that is what they are good at, is having a D Carter/J Smith type back to have great gains between the tackles (thunder) and having a A Bailey/PTG type scat back (lightning) to mix it up with a combo run/pass release RB. Your big gains come from running, not passing except dink & dunk passing that is 20 yards or less just to keep the defense honest.

The power run attack works far better when you lack talent - and that worked well under Marrone & Co. If Gmac can recruit more players like Estime with both speed and who isn't afraid to use his small body to actually block in space, the we are in for a complete change to our offense and I suspect Gmac could become the next great OC guru.

Really it all comes down to recruiting otherwise Gmac will end up looking like a fool. Although it seems like we are headed in a different direction, I hope Gmac sticks with the power run attack more often for the remainder of this year as that scheme matches the talent that's on the field right now.

spot on my friend. I think the current offensive staff is caught in between. Their scheme now has a little bit of both to accomodate the style of jerome and others. Were just not great at either but we do some good things out of both styles. If we gradually get better offensively we will go bowling without a doubt.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Wake Forest runs the spread - how well did it work for them on Saturday when they lost their best receiver - not buying it from you either.

Backwards thinking - the bar is that every team that runs the spread has to be effective in order to validate the spread?

What does that say about all of the ineffective traditional offenses? Why don't we ever talk about why those aren't invalidated by teams that aren't effective with them?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think GM looks at the dome the same way we have for so long: controlled environment > speed.

This is my greatest sports dream for SU football.

 

[Millhouse]

Wake Forest runs the spread - how well did it work for them on Saturday when they lost their best receiver - not buying it from you either.

i guess your sample of 1 disproves the argument i didn't make that the spread works every year for every team and that talent is irrelevant

there's a good chance lobotzke just doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[chakka3421]

Backwards thinking - the bar is that every team that runs the spread has to be effective in order to validate the spread?

What does that say about all of the ineffective traditional offenses? Why don't we ever talk about why those aren't invalidated by teams that aren't effective with them?

Its easy to be a Monday morning QB to think backwards like you are doing but you my friend (along with Millhouse) fail to see the talent vs scheme issue we have right now from a strategic perspective. Why did we get Estime on the field for 43 plays in the WF game - he seems to be the only WR we have on the team to run the spread effectively (maybe AB too).

However I am not against the spread - I just don't think it will work that effectively this year and that has proven to be the case so far. We didn't score our first TD against WF until we started running the ball again in the 3rd quarter - that first TD consisted of 14 plays, 11 of which were run plays.

 

[Millhouse]

Its easy to be a Monday morning QB to think backwards like you are doing but you my friend (along with Millhouse) fail to see the talent vs scheme issue we have right now from a strategic perspective. Why did we get Estime on the field for 43 plays in the WF game - he seems to be the only WR we have on the team to run the spread effectively (maybe AB too).

However I am not against the spread - I just don't think it will work that effectively this year and that has proven to be the case so far. We didn't score our first TD against WF until we started running the ball again in the 3rd quarter - that first TD consisted of 14 plays, 11 of which were run plays.

i think hunt is enough to make any offense ineffective. i don't blame mcdonald for anything. and also, when you mention running the ball again - you are falling into the 1998 argument that you can't run out of the spread.

 

[rrlbees]

Its easy to be a Monday morning QB to think backwards like you are doing but you my friend (along with Millhouse) fail to see the talent vs scheme issue we have right now from a strategic perspective. Why did we get Estime on the field for 43 plays in the WF game - he seems to be the only WR we have on the team to run the spread effectively (maybe AB too).

However I am not against the spread - I just don't think it will work that effectively this year and that has proven to be the case so far. We didn't score our first TD against WF until we started running the ball again in the 3rd quarter - that first TD consisted of 14 plays, 11 of which were run plays.

I think you are missing Millhouse's point (or I am). He's talking about spreading out people when running the ball. It takes the DB's and safeties out of the equation to make the tackle. You'd still have the same fat guys blocking the fat guys. But mathematically, there's less a chance that 1 of 5 or 6 will miss a block or assignment than 1 of 9 (not counting QB or RB with ball).


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