the fault Dear Brutus is with out top end recruiting

[orangehomer]

Let's start with this, Our recruiting the last two years has produced 4 excellent player/prospects. We hit it big time with Lydon and Mali. Lydon in the 80's was way under valued. Mali in the 20's, same thing. This year, battle and Thompson were also under valued. 4 starters. The problem is that we have not signed the top 20 recruit in either class. We are a national program. We have the best practice facility in the country. Bar none. We have still a great place to play our games. The Dome and it's 30,000 seats has to be a selling spot. and yet two years running, more really, we have not even been in the game with the top recruits. is anyone confident that things will change this year? I'm not. All of this other talk is blue smoke and mirrors. People want Lydon to be the player he isn't right now. A soph that gets 13 pts a game and 8 and a half rebounds a game is very good. Not to mention 80+ from the free throw line and 40+ from 3. but because we didn't get the guy that should have been the Man, we expect Tyler to be what he isn't yet. We can all debate about our offense scheme or the zone, it's players. We also hit a HR with the two 5th year guys. Can we hope to do as well again next year? Good luck with that. We need a rainmaker on this staff. What's Troy weaver where you need him?

there's no way that our practice facility is hands down the best in the country anymore, everyone is building them. there is only one reason to think that recruiting has slipped, JB hasn't been putting in the road time.

 

[Jasoncuse]

The issue was no back up plan.

Yep, exactly that. Going all in with no backup plan and losing is a fiasco.

 

[Toga]

Here's a question. Social media seems to be kind of a big deal in the world of football recruiting and Baber & staff appear to play that game pretty well. What about our BB program?

 

[Brian Orange]

Guys, why is this so hard to figure out? Take off your orange colored glasses. If 3 teams are even - say Syracuse, Nova and Arizona - why would you choose SU? You don't know who your coach is and we are on probation. Now we all know probation means nothing, but again, why even deal with that if you can go someplace else. You better believe that's a factor and people use it against us.

 

[dasher]

there's no way that our practice facility is hands down the best in the country anymore, everyone is building them. there is only one reason to think that recruiting has slipped, JB hasn't been putting in the road time.

There are actually other reasons that are out there

 

[dasher]

Guys, why is this so hard to figure out? Take off your orange colored glasses. If 3 teams are even - say Syracuse, Nova and Arizona - why would you choose SU? You don't know who your coach is and we are on probation. Now we all know probation means nothing, but again, why even deal with that if you can go someplace else. You better believe that's a factor and people use it against us.

The penalties of probation have hurt us. They have little to no effect on the players. And nova's recruiting has been awful by the numbers over the last 4 years. Shows how much that means.

 

[Jasoncuse]

there's no way that our practice facility is hands down the best in the country anymore, everyone is building them. there is only one reason to think that recruiting has slipped, JB hasn't been putting in the road time.

Ours is really nice and does a good job incorporating our program's history. However, I don't see how it's any better than any others. Look around at other school's facilities, many are new and many have the same or similar amenities.

If we wan to stand out, players' dorms are where it's at.

 

[two3zone]

Guys, why is this so hard to figure out? Take off your orange colored glasses. If 3 teams are even - say Syracuse, Nova and Arizona - why would you choose SU? You don't know who your coach is and we are on probation. Now we all know probation means nothing, but again, why even deal with that if you can go someplace else. You better believe that's a factor and people use it against us.

If I'm a Arizona coach I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't get a guy Cuse is after to play for me.

We have a major built in disadvantage and that's the beautiful Syracuse winter. You get a kid who doesn't like the cold or snow, he could make a decision on that alone.

 

[dasher]

Ours is really nice and does a good job incorporating our program's history. However, I don't see how it's any better than any others. Look around at other school's facilities, many are new and many have the same or similar amenities.

If we wan to stand out, players' dorms are where it's at.

I don't see how players dorms are even legal. Talk about a benefit that other students don't get.

 

[orangehomer]

There are actually other reasons that are out there

i'm fine with that too, if we want to blame it on the probation I am good there. I am just intimating what francis has expressed about JB's time on the trail.

 

[Brian Orange]

The penalties of probation have hurt us. They have little to no effect on the players.

Disagree. If I am player and don't want to go to a school on probation. Why even deal with it? Move on and now I don't have to even hear about it.

Anyway, I don't think this problem with recruiting gets really fixed until Boeheim moves on. I have no idea what's best - JB leave next year or try to stay on but I do think it would be better for recruiting if he leaves. Just clears that up and kids can sign on knowing who's gonna coach.

 

[Lowtop]

And another thing the Top 20 kids are run by advisors and agents. So it's not the staff's fault if they don't have the right "relationships".

 

[two3zone]

I don't see how players dorms are even legal. Talk about a benefit that other students don't get.

The loophole is I guess is the % of non student athletes that live there as well.

It's not about the rules themselves it's working the rules into your favor which we seem to be poor at.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Guys, why is this so hard to figure out? Take off your orange colored glasses. If 3 teams are even - say Syracuse, Nova and Arizona - why would you choose SU? You don't know who your coach is and we are on probation. Now we all know probation means nothing, but again, why even deal with that if you can go someplace else. You better believe that's a factor and people use it against us.

Every 2017 kid knows that he'll get JB for 1 season.

Every 2018 kid knows that it's the Hop show moving forward.

 

[two3zone]

And another thing the Top 20 kids are run by advisors and agents. So it's not the staff's fault if they don't have the right "relationships".

Hire people with "relationships" then?

 

[dasher]

If I'm a Arizona coach I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't get a guy Cuse is after to play for me.

We have a major built in disadvantage and that's the beautiful Syracuse winter. You get a kid who doesn't like the cold or snow, he could make a decision on that alone.

Not every eastern kid wants to play in the heat of Arizona. Your folks can't come to the game. Your friends can't go to the games. No one east of the Miss watches your games. I wouldn't mind selling vs Arizona.

 

[Brian Orange]

Every 2017 kid knows that he'll get JB for 1 season.

Every 2018 kid knows that it's the Hop show moving forward.

I have no inside info but I don't think its the cut and dry. I think there's a lot more gray area out there and that affects these kids decisions.

 

[two3zone]

Not every eastern kid wants to play in the heat of Arizona. Your folks can't come to the game. Your friends can't go to the games. No one east of the Miss watches your games. I wouldn't mind selling vs Arizona.

Very good points.

 

[orangehomer]

If I'm a Arizona coach I'd be embarrassed if I couldn't get a guy Cuse is after to play for me.

We have a major built in disadvantage and that's the beautiful Syracuse winter. You get a kid who doesn't like the cold or snow, he could make a decision on that alone.

meh, the winter becomes part of why it is awesome. if I were a northeast kid (which I am) I would love the idea of bringing in warm weather schools to kick their ass in the dome (which we do). winter isn't this huge oppressor that some try to make it into.

 

[Lowtop]

Hire people with "relationships" then?

They don't want to coach. They want their guys to play for someone who has an interest in them being a pro as quickly as possible and not a coach who goes out of his way to state year in and out that a certain kid isn't ready.

 

[BillSU]

They don't want to coach. They want their guys to play for someone who has an interest in them being a pro as quickly as possible and not a coach who goes out of his way to state year in and out that a certain kid isn't ready.

This is a little off the original points being discussed, (there are many factors in play that are contributing to the lack of top 10 players coming to SU of late), but to respond to Lowtop. I disagree. JB will tell the truth. Imagine - The HOF Coach can actually tell if a certain kid isn’t ready and tell the player, his parents and advisors that. But, it isn’t about the talent that MAY happen in the NBA – most of the time it’s ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. This is not a new concept. Hell, if I was offered a very substantial signing bonus I’d go too. That’s free will. And there’s nothing any of us can do about it until the day the rules are changed and it says “if you play for SU or anywhere on a full ride – you are there for three years, no exceptions.” However, save that money. There are no guarantees. Some players who enter the draft, don't make the team and end up in the D league or somewhere else.

 

[Lowtop]

This is a little off the original points being discussed, (there are many factors in play that are contributing to the lack of top 10 players coming to SU of late), but to respond to Lowtop. I disagree. JB will tell the truth. Imagine - The HOF Coach can actually tell if a certain kid isn’t ready and tell the player, his parents and advisors that. But, it isn’t about the talent that MAY happen in the NBA – most of the time it’s ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. This is not a new concept. Hell, if I was offered a very substantial signing bonus I’d go too. That’s free will. And there’s nothing any of us can do about it until the day the rules are changed and it says “if you play for SU or anywhere on a full ride – you are there for three years, no exceptions.” However, save that money. There are no guarantees. Some players who enter the draft, don't make the team and end up in the D league or somewhere else.

The last 4 early entrants Boeheim has done the he's not ready schtick and each of them has ended up with a guaranteed contract. I'm just letting you know that the routine doesn't play well with the Top 20 types and their circles. You are right for those in this select group it is all about the $ and they are trying to mitigate risk.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

I opened this thread thinking it was about Ohio State.

 

[cuseattle]

Dear Brutus, won't you come out to play?...

 

[pfister1]

Every 2017 kid knows that he'll get JB for 1 season.

Every 2018 kid knows that it's the Hop show moving forward.

You say that as if it is gospel. I know it keeps getting repeated, but we must have had a 100 debates this winter about whether JB would be back for next year or whether this season is his last and he'll quietly announce after the last game in order to avoid the victory lap. If we're debating it here, I'm sure recruits aren't as clear on it as they need to be and I'm also sure coaches recruiting against us are more than happy to confuse them.

A lot of people are lamenting what Syracuse has to offer or doesn't have to offer. SU has plenty to offer to bring in recruits. It may not have enough to be a selector or win every battle, but there are only a handful of schools that have better amenities, we can and should still recruit well.

Biggest problems in my view are:

-JB's waning interest in recruiting.
-it seems as though going all in the family on the staff, has left us without a rain maker. That probably needs to be Hop's first priority when he rounds out his staff. We don't need a big man coach, or a little man coach we need a recruiter.
-we havn't done a great job of recruiting for the a situation where a higher percentage of your players leave early and we are under restriction on the number of players we can have on our roster. I don't know if this is a staff flaw, or simply an impediment of the sanctions that no one short of Cal wouldn't have really been able to deal with.
-the succession plan dragging on forever.