the fault Dear Brutus is with out top end recruiting

[Cusefan0307]

The recruiting is a problem, but I don't think it's the top end guys. Battle and Lydon are good players. Put Lydon at the 4 and Battle as a scoring 6th man and those are probably better roles for them. What we are missing is our typical elite defensive center, and high end 4 year players like CJ Fair, Brandon Triche, James Southerland, and Scoop Jardine. We were winning 25 plus games a year with those guys. That's who Nova is winning with right now. 4 year players.

 

[ClamOtto]

Lots of good points here. The sanctions limiting the number of recruiters on the road and the imminent head coaching change are huge factors. I'd also add that we lost a lot when Rob Murphy left. He and Hop were killing it. Now Murphy's gone and it seems like Hop hasn't taken a step back from recruiting, and their replacements aren't at their level.

 

[newmexicuse]

A lot of focus on top end recruiting. Bigger problem lately has been the inability to identify the four year program types. Where are the cooneys, the onaukus, the jardines, the triches, and the Jackson's of the world ? These are players who come contribute and improve. Roberson was heading in that direction and the wheels came off this year...why ? Even in this year's pathetic class we are messing around with Washington who would seem wants to come here and would probably be a great fit for that role to chase ayala. Not exactly the same as chasing green. Staff used to be really good at finding under the radar types.why cant they do that any more?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You say that as if it is gospel. I know it keeps getting repeated, but we must have had a 100 debates this winter about whether JB would be back for next year or whether this season is his last and he'll quietly announce after the last game in order to avoid the victory lap. If we're debating it here, I'm sure recruits aren't as clear on it as they need to be and I'm also sure coaches recruiting against us are more than happy to confuse them.

This is the internet. I could post three articles that claim water is wet, and there would still be 100 debates about it.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Let's start with this, Our recruiting the last two years has produced 4 excellent player/prospects. We hit it big time with Lydon and Mali. Lydon in the 80's was way under valued. Mali in the 20's, same thing. This year, battle and Thompson were also under valued. 4 starters. The problem is that we have not signed the top 20 recruit in either class. We are a national program. We have the best practice facility in the country. Bar none. We have still a great place to play our games. The Dome and it's 30,000 seats has to be a selling spot. and yet two years running, more really, we have not even been in the game with the top recruits. is anyone confident that things will change this year? I'm not. All of this other talk is blue smoke and mirrors. People want Lydon to be the player he isn't right now. A soph that gets 13 pts a game and 8 and a half rebounds a game is very good. Not to mention 80+ from the free throw line and 40+ from 3. but because we didn't get the guy that should have been the Man, we expect Tyler to be what he isn't yet. We can all debate about our offense scheme or the zone, it's players. We also hit a HR with the two 5th year guys. Can we hope to do as well again next year? Good luck with that. We need a rainmaker on this staff. What's Troy weaver where you need him?

While Melo is a beautiful facility - I disagree. Villanova, Kentucky, WVU, Indiana, Duke, etc all have fantastic facilities.

We don't sign the top recruits because of style of play and the NBA. Do you think Kentucky would get top recruits if the kids were going in the late 1st round ever year or would those kids opt to go elsewhere?

I'd guess the top 10 recruits in each class (and obviously more) have 1 goal: NBA. While Syracuse puts guys in the NBA they very rarely rely and focus on star power. It happens once in a while, but JB installs a team first mentality most years.

 

[dan7800]

Sanctions have hurt us worse more than people admit.

 

[81South]

we need to recruit nationally and show the kids mucho love. You have to kiss many asses in this day and age. And bigger envelopes wouldn't hurt.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Sanctions have hurt us worse more than people admit.

Many of these issues were already brewing when the sanctions were announced.

And the staff should've worked harder with these sanctions in place. Being limited to 2 on the road doesn't mean we have to only recruit I-95...

 

[Ward]

Lots of good points here. The sanctions limiting the number of recruiters on the road and the imminent head coaching change are huge factors. I'd also add that we lost a lot when Rob Murphy left. He and Hop were killing it. Now Murphy's gone and it seems like Hop hasn't taken a step back from recruiting, and their replacements aren't at their level.

This has been overblown. Not singling you out, many have cited this, but the reality is that we can still have 2 people out there on the road and often times we have had 1 or 0.

It is difficult to recruit players to come play for your program when your head coach shows little interest in participating in the recruiting process and our assistants are being outworked. My guess is the first thing is impacting the latter but I don't know how much. I hope I'm wrong and they've been there under the radar but it is inexcusable that nobody on the staff has been to Hudson Catholic this year. That pretty much speaks volumes to things. There are still the same great selling points to get talent to come play for us but you aren't going to have success with those two factors.

If I wanted to really try making a stretch I wonder if there is any correlation on the staff not being out watching players as often and if this is why we have missed on many of our evaluations for those program types that have been the backbone of our success over the years.

 

[Funk Doc]

Yep, and the point guard position has really determined our fortunes more than any other position

NCAA seed from Flynn's last year through Ennis: #3, #1, #3, #1, #4, #3

NCAA seed since Ennis: banned, #10, bubble

This is really eye opening!

 

[Jasoncuse]

This has been overblown. Not singling you out, many have cited this, but the reality is that we can still have 2 people out there on the road and often times we have had 1 or 0.

It is difficult to recruit players to come play for your program when your head coach shows little interest in participating in the recruiting process and our assistants are being outworked. My guess is the first thing is impacting the latter but I don't know how much. I hope I'm wrong and they've been there under the radar but it is inexcusable that nobody on the staff has been to Hudson Catholic this year. That pretty much speaks volumes to things. There are still the same great selling points to get talent to come play for us but you aren't going to have success with those two factors.

If I wanted to really try making a stretch I wonder if there is any correlation on the staff not being out watching players as often and if this is why we have missed on many of our evaluations for those program types that have been the backbone of our success over the years.

That's a good point. Obviously, we'll never know the answer, but you'd have to think if they were out there more, not only would that put us in the good graces of top recruits, but we may also get better evaluations of players. I would assume the staff is able to watch film of any kid in basically any game at this point, but there is something about being there in person that improves your evaluation...

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'd guess the top 10 recruits in each class (and obviously more) have 1 goal: NBA. While Syracuse puts guys in the NBA they very rarely rely and focus on star power. It happens once in a while, but JB installs a team first mentality most years.

I'd wager that 100% of the top-100 see themselves as NBA players. Probably the top-200 recruits. Hell, I have a friend who played 1 season of DII football and he still thinks he could have made the NFL if he didn't tear his knee up.

 

[OttoMets]

The recruiting is a problem, but I don't think it's the top end guys. Battle and Lydon are good players. Put Lydon at the 4 and Battle as a scoring 6th man and those are probably better roles for them. What we are missing is our typical elite defensive center, and high end 4 year players like CJ Fair, Brandon Triche, James Southerland, and Scoop Jardine. We were winning 25 plus games a year with those guys. That's who Nova is winning with right now. 4 year players.

Combine this with Boeheim running guys off instead of developing them and there's a big chunk of the problem. He's been operating out of his comfort zone for a couple years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

comfort zone

AMIRITE

 

[Fly Rodder]

Combine this with Boeheim running guys off...

I don't think there was any chance of Chino developing into the player he needed to be at SU. Same with Patterson and Joseph (maybe, we'll see next year at Creighton, which is probably the highest level team that an SU player has transferred to recently - Bobby Lazor to ASU being the best?).

Roster management has been atrocious though. Part of that has to do with injuries, overall recruiting misses, and converting undersized 3s to PGs.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think there was any chance of Chino developing into the player he needed to be at SU. Same with Patterson and Joseph (maybe, we'll see next year at Creighton, which is probably the highest level team that an SU player has transferred to recently - Bobby Lazor to ASU being the best?).

Roster management has been atrocious though. Part of that has to do with injuries, overall recruiting misses, and converting undersized 3s to PGs.

I'm an eternal optimist with player development, but I think Chino was a practice body (won't get into my concerns about big man development here). I liked the other two kids in that class, though, and I was both high on Joseph and suspicious about his departure (when the kid shows up in the fall with 15 pounds of new definition and plays well in the exhibitions, but the poster who started this thread's already said that the staff's given up on him and, sure enough, Joseph doesn't get consistent minutes, I think something funny's happened).

I can't pretend to know why this has happened, but Boeheim -- in many ways a stickler for consistency over 30+ years -- has made some unusual changes in response to other changes out of his control. For 1990 Boeheim, losing your point guard meant sticking with a four-year developmental player or recruiting a new four-year point guard. For new Boeheim, it meant rolling with that undersized 3, then finding an undersized 2 from another school. So many instances of playing kids out of position. So little innovation on offense or flexibility with defense. I wonder if there's a plan here or if this has been a series of reactive moves? It's a crappy way for his tenure to end.

 

[Ghost]

we need to recruit nationally and show the kids mucho love. You have to kiss many asses in this day and age. And bigger envelopes wouldn't hurt.

We could just recruit Toronto and be doing better overall than we've done of late. lol

 

[Ghost]

I'm an eternal optimist with player development, but I think Chino was a practice body (won't get into my concerns about big man development here). I liked the other two kids in that class, though, and I was both high on Joseph and suspicious about his departure (when the kid shows up in the fall with 15 pounds of new definition and plays well in the exhibitions, but the poster who started this thread's already said that the staff's given up on him and, sure enough, Joseph doesn't get consistent minutes, I think something funny's happened).

I can't pretend to know why this has happened, but Boeheim -- in many ways a stickler for consistency over 30+ years -- has made some unusual changes in response to other changes out of his control. For 1990 Boeheim, losing your point guard meant sticking with a four-year developmental player or recruiting a new four-year point guard. For new Boeheim, it meant rolling with that undersized 3, then finding an undersized 2 from another school. So many instances of playing kids out of position. So little innovation on offense or flexibility with defense. I wonder if there's a plan here or if this has been a series of reactive moves? It's a crappy way for his tenure to end.

Yeah, Chino was partly to help with recruiting Thomas Bryant, no? Practice body, but not much else was ever really expected from what I recall. Could be wrong though.

We nailed that one!