The future of HCSS

[kcsu]

Im pulling for him and this staff as i believe they have created the proper approach to selling Syracuse University to quality, talented players. It is obvious that they have taken a National approach to recruiting and are not about to sell themselves short. This is a staff that believes in themselves and believes in our University. In short i believe that what they have accomplished on the recruiting trail is beyond significant. To close the players that they have against solid if not off the chart competition speaks volumes about their ability to connect with both players and parents. For this they should be provided the time required to see these efforts bear fruit in Wins which in my opinion will come.

Now lets discuss coaching. With the exception of our O i believe that our coaching has been very solid. Year in year out HCSS has fielded a very strong D. Lets face it he saved DM ass and was a significant reason that Doug was provided the opportunity to coach in the NFL. Yes Doug gets all of the credit for hiring Scott but still without Shafer i doubt that Doug would be coaching Syracuse let alone having been provided the Bills job.

Special teams have also improved under him. So if Lester can make progress with the O i feel that we have a staff that has the ability to continue to recruit well and put us in position to be in the top 40 or better each year going to a solid bowl, playing with most on the schedule and catching lighting every 5 years or so. I really hope that Lester makes solid strides this year and that Coyle provides this staff with a few more years to get us over the top as i believe they will get there.

 

[orange44]

Totally agree!

 

[orangepassion]

I agree. Lester is the key to the year, and subsequently Shafer's success.

 

[skytop44]

Make decent strides on offense, try not to fall too far back with the inexperience on defense. If he gets to a bowl game, he'll get an extension. Have a losing season with a new AD, you're leaving it up for debate and for the new AD to make a decision. Just win baby!

 

[Orangello]

I don't think that it's as simple as winning record = contract extension for HCSS. I think our new AD is smarter than the average bear and is more concerned with having the right person in place with a vision and plan to assure long term, sustainable success versus W/L over one season. A winning record may get HCSS one more year but after that, I think all bets are off. He is going to have to cnvince the AD that he is THE long term solution for SU FB.

 

[44PRIDE]

I am in the minority, but I'm just not impressed by HCSS. To be clear, he is a functional head coach. That is to say he understands how to run a team (day to day) and how to recruit.

However, I've seen enough of his body of work to have concerns with his ability (or lack-of) to make in game adjustments. His gameday aptitude as head coach is sub-par.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I am in the minority, but I'm just not impressed by HCSS. To be clear, he is a functional head coach. That is to say he understands how to run a team (day to day) and how to recruit.

However, I've seen enough of his body of work to have concerns with his ability (or lack-of) to make in game adjustments. His gameday aptitude as head coach is sub-par.

Without a P-5 level QB, its hard to judge any HC.

 

[javadoc]

I am in the minority, but I'm just not impressed by HCSS. To be clear, he is a functional head coach. That is to say he understands how to run a team (day to day) and how to recruit.

However, I've seen enough of his body of work to have concerns with his ability (or lack-of) to make in game adjustments. His gameday aptitude as head coach is sub-par.

Does that improve with time?

 

[UnknownOrange]

So in essence, Lester is to Shafer as Shafer was to Marrone

 

[bcubs9497]

If there's no national championship this year, the new AD must summarily execute him at the end of the season.

 

[skytop44]

I don't think that it's as simple as winning record = contract extension for HCSS. I think our new AD is smarter than the average bear and is more concerned with having the right person in place with a vision and plan to assure long term, sustainable success versus W/L over one season. A winning record may get HCSS one more year but after that, I think all bets are off. He is going to have to cnvince the AD that he is THE long term solution for SU FB.

I totally agree. I think that he either needs to be extended or let go. I don't like the idea of a lame duck coach. If Coyle doesn't think he's the long term answer, then he needs to make a change. But if he wins 7-8 games this year, he would show he is the long term answers and most likely would get extended IMO. Maybe 6 wins and a bowl would warrant Coyle thinking he's the long term guy but we're just going to have to see how the season plays out and what Coyle does from here.

 

[kcsu]

unless he blows up expect a 2 year extension

 

[RF2044]

Im pulling for him and this staff as i believe they have created the proper approach to selling Syracuse University to quality, talented players. It is obvious that they have taken a National approach to recruiting and are not about to sell themselves short. This is a staff that believes in themselves and believes in our University. In short i believe that what they have accomplished on the recruiting trail is beyond significant. To close the players that they have against solid if not off the chart competition speaks volumes about their ability to connect with both players and parents. For this they should be provided the time required to see these efforts bear fruit in Wins which in my opinion will come.

Now lets discuss coaching. With the exception of our O i believe that our coaching has been very solid. Year in year out HCSS has fielded a very strong D. Lets face it he saved DM ass and was a significant reason that Doug was provided the opportunity to coach in the NFL. Yes Doug gets all of the credit for hiring Scott but still without Shafer i doubt that Doug would be coaching Syracuse let alone having been provided the Bills job.

Special teams have also improved under him. So if Lester can make progress with the O i feel that we have a staff that has the ability to continue to recruit well and put us in position to be in the top 40 or better each year going to a solid bowl, playing with most on the schedule and catching lighting every 5 years or so. I really hope that Lester makes solid strides this year and that Coyle provides this staff with a few more years to get us over the top as i believe they will get there.

This is a good post with lots of interesting insightful analsyis. I just don't get the unnecessary potshot at Marrone in the middle paragraph. I know that you have consistently been one of DM's biggest detractors since his unceremonious departure, but I think its time to put that nonsense in the past.

 

[RF2044]

I totally agree. I think that he either needs to be extended or let go. I don't like the idea of a lame duck coach. If Coyle doesn't think he's the long term answer, then he needs to make a change. But if he wins 7-8 games this year, he would show he is the long term answers and most likely would get extended IMO. Maybe 6 wins and a bowl would warrant Coyle thinking he's the long term guy but we're just going to have to see how the season plays out and what Coyle does from here.

Getting to a bowl game is and should be the goal for this year, coming off of an injury plagued 3-9 season. If we manage that, and the offense looks functional [suggesting that Lester is "the guy" at OC], then I'm squarely behind HCSS getting an extension. The way our coaching staff is recruiting, even 6 wins sets the stage for a longer look, IMO.

If we win, say, 5 games--but the offense looks strong, I still think that's enough to get HCSS an additional year so that he isn't a lame duck next year.

If we win less than 5, or the offense looks horribly inept on the order of magnitude we were subjected to last year, I think the new AD pulls the plug and jump starts the rebuild by getting his guy in place.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I am in the minority, but I'm just not impressed by HCSS. To be clear, he is a functional head coach. That is to say he understands how to run a team (day to day) and how to recruit.

However, I've seen enough of his body of work to have concerns with his ability (or lack-of) to make in game adjustments. His gameday aptitude as head coach is sub-par.

Pretty much spot on. Not saying it can't get better but As RF has said quite a bit, Lester will determine Shafer's future but at the same time, tough to look past the razor thin depth at some key positions on the defense as well. Could be a very long year and we are in year 7 of the current rebuild... It certainly isn't easy to win at Syracuse, we need a great coach who is solid in all aspects, weaknesses will get exposed. If you want to blame much of last season on injuries well so be it but Shafer's first year was a bit rough as well

 

[skytop44]

Getting to a bowl game is and should be the goal for this year, coming off of an injury plagued 3-9 season. If we manage that, and the offense looks functional [suggesting that Lester is "the guy" at OC], then I'm squarely behind HCSS getting an extension. The way our coaching staff is recruiting, even 6 wins sets the stage for a longer look, IMO.

If we win, say, 5 games--but the offense looks strong, I still think that's enough to get HCSS an additional year so that he isn't a lame duck next year.

If we win less than 5, or the offense looks horribly inept on the order of magnitude we were subjected to last year, I think the new AD pulls the plug and jump starts the rebuild by getting his guy in place.

That's a good way to look at it. Although the only thing I dissagree with is winning 5 games would get him some sort of extension. I think 5 wins most likely does not get him a one year extension from Coyle. That IMO would be the decision Coyle would have to make whether to give him some sort of extension or pull the plug and I would think a new AD would want to bring in his own guy that has his long term vision. I agree with everything else you said.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's a good way to look at it. Although the only thing I dissagree with is winning 5 games would get him some sort of extension. I think 5 wins most likely does not get him a one year extension from Coyle. That IMO would be the decision Coyle would have to make whether to give him some sort of extension or pull the plug and I would think a new AD would want to bring in his own guy that has his long term vision. I agree with everything else you said.

I think 5 gets him one more year with recruits he has coming in.

 

[skytop44]

I think 5 gets him one more year with recruits he has coming in.

It could, but I don't really see 1 recruiting class having that big of an impact in decision when thinking long term as AD does. And I agree with your point that if there is a change made, we need a solid experienced coach that has experience building a program long term. But of course the easiest thing is Shafer wins then we don't have to worry about hitting the reset button.

 

[tipphill]

I totally agree. I think that he either needs to be extended or let go. I don't like the idea of a lame duck coach. If Coyle doesn't think he's the long term answer, then he needs to make a change. But if he wins 7-8 games this year, he would show he is the long term answers and most likely would get extended IMO. Maybe 6 wins and a bowl would warrant Coyle thinking he's the long term guy but we're just going to have to see how the season plays out and what Coyle does from here.

we need to extend him now for recruiting purposes!!!! that is our biggest need---we deal with the other STUFF later---crawl before you walk!!!!!

 

[PhatOrange]

everything i've seen on the recruiting front is in line with the chancellors academic mission at syracuse. they want great football players but theyre really preaching solid academics and citizenship. they'll take some flyers on a kid or two but even though we have lieniant admissions shafer is trying to be like stanford/duke, he's trying to recruit smart kids and raise the academic bar. from reading coyle's early transcripts i think shafer is the type of guy coyle will want and i believe he's got syverud backing to.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It could, but I don't really see 1 recruiting class having that big of an impact in decision when thinking long term as AD does. And I agree with your point that if there is a change made, we need a solid experienced coach that has experience building a program long term. But of course the easiest thing is Shafer wins then we don't have to worry about hitting the reset button.

Agreed and 5 is really the either way mark for sure, guess it depends how it looks overall for sure and an argument can be made either way

 

[rosconey]

he's gotta show competence at coaching-and grow a pair -

im afraid being a defense first coach is going to be his downfall -hes rolled the dice twice on oc's and the first roll was snake eyes-

and his dam mentality to punt on 3rd and short is asinine -

im not going for this number wins gets him a extension - hell he could win 3-4 but be in 8-9 games till the clock runs out and im all for giving him more time


i just want him to be competent

 

[skytop44]

we need to extend him now for recruiting purposes!!!! that is our biggest need---we deal with the other STUFF later---crawl before you walk!!!!!

I hear what you're saying but there is just no way that Coyle will extend him a week before camp starts. Coyle is in wait and see mode like everyone else. Recruiting will not determine whether he gets an extension this year. It will be all about the W's and L's IMO.

 

[kcsu]

This is a good post with lots of interesting insightful analsyis. I just don't get the unnecessary potshot at Marrone in the middle paragraph. I know that you have consistently been one of DM's biggest detractors since his unceremonious departure, but I think its time to put that nonsense in the past.

Its not a pot shot. I think that Doug did a great job given the fact the was handed a complete cluster. Yes i hate the way he left and didnt like how he treated my Father but if you read my post i give him credit for hiring Shafer. I do believe that in the first few years Shafers D carried the day for us. Im not as down on Doug as i may seem to be and i realize that he did a great job turning us around. I just wish that he would have left in a different fashion

 

[Scooch]

we need to extend him now for recruiting purposes!!!! that is our biggest need---we deal with the other STUFF later---crawl before you walk!!!!!

I've never understood this. Are recruits and their parents THAT stupid? Do we really think that an opposing coach wouldn't just say "Sure they gave him an extension. But we all know how this works. He's 10-15 in his time at SU, you know that another bad year, or maybe 2, and he's gone, no matter what "extension" was given. Come play for us, we don't have that kind of instability."

I mean *I* sure as hell would say that, and I'm no hot-shot college football recruiter.