The if and when to extend Coach Babers thread

[SmilinBob]

I wanted to take this away from the White thread as he deserves his own piece. I saw what kcsu wrote and I agree...if SU were fortunate enough to go 3-0 and then beat LSU the world knows and it may be too late as this is the time people start to see if their HC stays or not and there is some big money out there that will always be able to out pay SU. I'd like to extend him before game 4 along with his staff which has recruited very well and sends a message that SU AND Babers are as coach puts it "La Famile". Smart money knows when to buy...when to hold and when to sell. Honestly, even if SU loses to Middle Tennessee State I want the extension before the 4th game.

 

[Trueblue25]

lets go to a bowl and win 7 games first. Or, if we beat LSU/Nc St/Louisville or Miami.

 

[JackBauer44]

I actually agree with KCSU's sentiment. I know Dino has been bullish on the offense clicking in the "range" he gave last season, but say we come out and LSU does the LSU thing where they don't put a lot of points on the board. One thing I am confident this year is that we are going to score. If we hold opponents under 30, I believe we have a phenomenal year. I would rather have Dino locked up Pre-LSU. If a big school wants to come after him, they're going to come after him; however, I would rather us locked him into a big extension before it happens and he gives us a huuuuuuuuuuuge performance against LSU (should it come).

 

[ForeverOrange]

Opening up the checkbook will be 2-part. We are not talking just about paying him. I am sure this will include his core assistants also. They will all need possibly, major raises. So I want to watch more of the season. I want to see a couple competitive games against teams we shouldn't be able to compete with regardless of outcome. I want to see if his mid season progressions in other conferences will apply in the ACC.

 

[kcsu]

I wanted to take this away from the White thread as he deserves his own piece. I saw what kcsu wrote and I agree...if SU were fortunate enough to go 3-0 and then beat LSU the world knows and it may be too late as this is the time people start to see if their HC stays or not and there is some big money out there that will always be able to out pay SU. I'd like to extend him before game 4 along with his staff which has recruited very well and sends a message that SU AND Babers are as coach puts it "La Famile". Smart money knows when to buy...when to hold and when to sell. Honestly, even if SU loses to Middle Tennessee State I want the extension before the 4th game.

The time to buy any appreciating asset is as early as possible.

 

[elimunelson]

can someone explain to me why we would be considering extending Dino right now. What metrics are we determining this extension on? A few verbal commits? I would be very careful doing anything until we see tangible results. To me that's a few years of bowl quality results and/or our hands are tied and he extorts us for more money due to a better opportunity. With the latter, i'd be careful as well because we're not going to win arms races for coaches with an SEC team. If he has aspirations to coach Texas A&M or something, we won't stop that train no matter what.

The inverse is if we win 3 games this year and extend him next week. Will everyone be satisfied w that move as well?

I say hold the line until we see more. Dino has won 4 games so far. Let's not put him in Canton yet/Bill Parcells

 

[kcsu]

can someone explain to me why we would be considering extending Dino right now. What metrics are we determining this extension on? A few verbal commits? I would be very careful doing anything until we see tangible results. To me that's a few years of bowl quality results and/or our hands are tied and he extorts us for more money due to a better opportunity. With the latter, i'd be careful as well because we're not going to win arms races for coaches with an SEC team. If he has aspirations to coach Texas A&M or something, we won't stop that train no matter what.

The inverse is if we win 3 games this year and extend him next week. Will everyone be satisfied w that move as well?

I say hold the line until we see more. Dino has won 4 games so far. Let's not put him in Canton yet/Bill Parcells

If we had a normal schedule, If ED had not been injured, if it wasnt just his second year we would have.
* made a bowl last year
* Be in line to win 7-8 this year.

His record based on who we are playing is a factor but not in my opinion the most relevant. This guy and his staff get it. Pay up now, put a large buyout in place to help fund the next coach "my pick matt C LSU" if the A&Ms of the world come calling.

 

[orangeinjersey]

if we are successful, i wouldnt worry about Dino leaving id be more worried about his assts leaving. They know the sauce too.

 

[Scooch]

Didn't KCSU want to extend Shafer too? Or am I making that up?

 

[blizz]

SU isn't going to extend him and everyone on this board knows it.

Winners win and losers lose.

 

[UnknownOrange]

SU isn't going to extend him and everyone on this board knows it.

Winners win and losers lose.

I thought you were done with SU?

 

[elimunelson]

Is there any board historians who can show me the Coach P extension talks in 2001 when they won 10 games? Or the Coach P should be the highest paid coach in college football after the Colorado win in 1993 thread?

Let's just take a chill and see how it all plays out. We're like abuse victims with our dementia these days. If Dino leaves after one good year (sounds like 8 wins would satiate), then so be it. There is NOTHING an extension will do to stop it. I argue Paul Pasqualoni has clouded our opinions of coach longevity b/c he stuck around after multiple 10 win seasons and was never even whispered having other opportunities (Thankfully Paterno didn't retire in like 1993, prob would have changed that dynamic).

 

[Newhouser]

Oddly I think we can't extend him until we see how he reacts if the D is again historically woeful. Head guy has to run the whole show not one side of the ball.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Results aside, I'd be thrilled to hear of an extension at any time because I love the offensive system and would roll the dice on it long term.

 

[sufandu]

Another school isn't going to swoop in and take Dino mid season, so I see no reason to extend him early in the year. If we're really scared someone is just gonna out pay us for him and that's what Dino is about, it doesn't matter when we try to lock him up, he'll be gone. If he really sees Syracuse as a long term home, we can wait to see how the team plays against the tougher teams on the schedule to get a feel about progress.

The earliest I would extend him is after LSU.

 

[elimunelson]

if we are successful, i wouldnt worry about Dino leaving id be more worried about his assts leaving. They know the sauce too.

Shafer knew the sauce that Marrone was cooking too. That route is fraught with peril. It sounds like they are carnival folk with regards to traveling together to the next outpost.

 

[texascpa]

There is no way SU would even consider extending him until after the season. And if they dome renovation is any indication, it may not be until the end of next season...maybe.

 

[Pyle]

9+ wins...extend
ACC Championship game...extend
Major Bowl...extend
Otherwise we should just sit back and enjoy the aroma, the sauce isn't even ready yet. Talk of extending a guy who gave up 70 points to Pitt seems premature. I'm all in on Dino but he's proven nothing at this level yet. He's managed to equal Grob's largest win total, that's it. The win over VT was nice but Grob beat ND, it doesn't mean everything.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I think what will keep Dino around more than anything are:
1. Facilities upgrades/time frame
2. More money to pay assistants

 

[SUskibum]

lets go to a bowl and win 7 games first. Or, if we beat LSU/Nc St/Louisville or Miami.

In my estimation that would be an expensive way to do business.

Give him a $1M raise to hold over a couple years, before everyone else notices or be forced to give him $2+M, after everyone realizes and comes with their (bigger) checkbooks.

I wrote in another thread that it is almost always cheaper (in my experience) to overpay talent early by 15-20% than to underpay by 15-20%. That may seem counterintutitive in the short term, but here are a few (not exhaustive) reasons I believe it saves money in the long term.

1. Replacing (equal) talent is almost always more expensive than retaining it. (eg, Paying a premium to bring someone from another shop beacuse happy productive employees do not undergo the stress of moving jobs for a lateral comp situation. Plus the actual search $ cost and time cost spent looking for replacement instead of working on your business, other related costs etc)

2. Drop in productivity/revenues of your buiness while you undergo the transition. New systems, managers, sales talent almost always take a period of time before they have their respective businesses running close to optimum/steady state. If you save $1-2M in expenses but it costs you $3-5M in sales, that is not a good trade.

3. Many studies show that *on average* increased compensation results in more productivity from workers due to their increased sense of responsibility to earn what they are paid. Also their is increased urgency to retain their current position since a similar role/responsibility may not exist for them at this current comp so they are highly motivated to maintain their current (unique) circumstance.

EDIT: #3 is less relevant to head coaches but applies more to staff.

 

[Alsacs]

Give Dino's entire coaching staff a 100k raise.
Give Dino's support staff a 10k raise.

Give Dino a reasonable raise.

The guy gets it and we don't need to be afraid to commit.

 

[Pyle]

In my estimation that would be an expensive way to do business.

Give him a $1M raise to hold over a couple years, before everyone else notices or be forced to give him $2+M, after everyone realizes and comes with their (bigger) checkbooks.

I wrote in another thread that it is almost always cheaper (in my experience) to overpay talent early by 15-20% than to underpay by 15-20%. That may seem counterintutitive in the short term, but here are a few (not exhaustive) reasons I believe it saves money in the long term.

1. Replacing (equal) talent is almost always more expensive than retianing it. (eg, Paying a premium to bring someone from another shop beacuse happy productive employees do not undergo the stress of moving jobs for a lateral comp situation. Plus the actual search $ cost and time cost spent looking for replacement instead of working on your business, other related costs etc)

2. Drop in productivity/revenues of your buiness while you undergo the transition. New systems, managers, sales talent almost always take a period of time before they have their respective businesses running close to optimum/steady state. If you save $1-2M in expenses but it costs you $3-5M in sales, that is not a good trade.

3. Many studies show that *on average* increased compensation results in more productivity from workers due to their increased sense of responsibility to earn what they are paid. Also their is increased urgency to retain their current position since a similar role/responsibility may not exist for them at this current comp so they are highly motivated to maintain their current (unique) circumstance.

EDIT: #3 is less relevant to head coaches but applies more to staff.

This is college football, not corporate America. It doesn't matter if you extend him now for $1 million or in a two years for $2 million. If one of the big boys comes calling we would never be able to match their offer and the buyout would be child's play for such a school. The only thing an extension gets us is the appearance of recruiting stability and stops him from jumping to a peer. Extend him too early and SU doesn't have the resources to buy out his contract if it turns out his system only works in the Group of 5, not the Power 5. And until we see a team that isn't down 21 points in the first 7 minutes, I'm not convinced.

 

[Scooch]

I'm going to start treating contract extension threads like others should treat uniforms threads.

Scooch out.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Why would he commit to SU long term? I mean, have you seen the locker room?!

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm not worried about an extension, give it to him.

I just want to see a nice buyout so we know he's moving up in class...also, (hopefully)we get some $$.