The issue with the play calling

[OrangePA]

Two things. One, I agree that the defense is also an issue. I do not agree the defense is the primary problem. I'm mystified why we aren't better at generating turnovers. That said, the offense doesn't do the defense any favors whatsoever. I think the putridness of the offense fuels lackluster performance by the defense.

As for why I focus on offense, it's because I believe that offense is in your hands, and defense is not. You can be active with offense because you make the choice of where the ball goes after the snap. On defense you're forced to be reactive because you're not making those decisions. So, for me personally, I philosophically always lay the majority of the explanation for team performance on the offense because that is the thing that we can control.

Well, I'm pretty sure that we had over 400 yards in offense last night.

Clearly the offense needs improvement but for me, right now, it's the defense that is the primary problem.

This team does not hit or tackle like Marrone's first team or last year's team.

Opponents constantly bounce off our defenders and gain additional yardage after the first contact.

 

[Aweart23]

Clearly the offense needs improvement but for me, right now, it's the defense that is the primary problem.

This team does not hit or tackle like Marrone's first team or last year's team.

Opponents constantly bounce off our defenders and gain additional yardage after the first contact.

We lost Holmes, Merk, Hogue, Smith, Tribbey and Max Suter on defense..six seniors and replaced them with freshman, soph's and first year players...

Yes everybody loses seniors but they get replaced with seniors and juniors...with the short first recruiting class and the players that left we have a huge void of senior leadership on BOTH sides of the ball..

Its easy to blame the offense, but the defense gave up 37 last night...the defense has been just as inconsistent as the offense

 

[OrangePA]

We lost Holmes, Merk, Hogue, Smith, Tribbey and Max Suter on defense..six seniors and replaced them with freshman, soph's and first year players...

Yes everybody loses seniors but they get replaced with seniors and juniors...with the short first recruiting class and the players that left we have a huge void of senior leadership on BOTH sides of the ball..

Its easy to blame the offense, but the defense gave up 37 last night...the defense has been just as inconsistent as the offense

True

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well, I'm pretty sure that we had over 400 yards in offense last night.

:bang:

At this point you're either just messing with me or lying to yourself.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't have a huge issue with play calling with the exception of the 1st quarter every game. I think we use the same scripted set of plays every game at the start.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I don't have a huge issue with play calling with the exception of the 1st quarter every game. I think we use the same scripted set of plays every game at the start.

Completely agree. I actually think Hack's done a decent job calling plays for most of the games...I wish we would just come out firing in the first quarter instead of waiting to fall behind before we do it.

 

[SWC75]

Well, I'm pretty sure that we had over 400 yards in offense last night.

Clearly the offense needs improvement but for me, right now, it's the defense that is the primary problem.

This team does not hit or tackle like Marrone's first team or last year's team.

Opponents constantly bounce off our defenders and gain additional yardage after the first contact.

43 yards, 3 punts and no points when trying to "establish the run". I credit the coaches with recognizing that that didn't work and going to the pass. But all season long we've fucntioned better when we used the pass to set up the run rather than the other way around. Why didn't we come out passing from the beginning in this one? It's not an issue of wanting the coahes to call plays they never call. It's about using the plays that have worked the best from the beginning of the game.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Players that are talented and execute properly make good play calls.

Our problem is not play calling.

My wife knows little about football but came to the game with me last night. These are comments she kept making: Why do they have #29 run the ball on every first down? Why do they have him run into a bunch of people instead of where there are openings? Why do they have #29 then run again? Doesn't the other team know what play they will run? Why don't they pass more, they are better at it?

 

[rrlbees]

My wife knows little about football but came to the game with me last night.

It as nice meeting your wife Doug.

 

[stuckinbig11]

It as nice meeting your wife Doug.

Thanks. I bartered on M Street for 2 good bball tickets in section 113 behind the basket for $20 each. I had three guys trying to sell me tickets in different sections, and the prices kept going lower 'til I decided I had a good deal.

 

[kcsu]

Players that are talented and execute properly make good play calls.

Our problem is not play calling.

BS PA im sick and tired of you blaming this on talent. Cant you see that Doug and Hack have the bed. Do you watch the games? Come on man wake up get rid of the man crush on
Doug and realize that he and hack have been so -ing poor running the O it is pathetic. If Doug was the OC he would be fired.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't meant to sound flippant, and I'm sure I do, but I find it amazing that lay people such as those on this board know so much about the ins and outs of major college football coaching - and play calling.

So, Marrone is not getting what his talent level warrants. How exactly do you know that? Who has more talent than he is showing right now?

As far as I can tell - and I'm just a lay person - he's gotten about as much out of Nassib as one could ever get . I think the same holds true for guys like Provo, Adam Harris, Macky and Alec Lemon.

And I don't understand. DeLeone knew how to gain solid rushing yardage with lously talent, but was too conservative? You mean he should have been running a wide open, sophisticated passing offense with the lousy talent he had? Could it be that he ran a "conservative offense" that gained a lot of rushing yardage because that's all he could run and be successful?

I must say, I am also amazed that the post loss conversation on this board is always about the offense, when it's our defense that has been the primary problem. We don't tackle well, we don't put enough pressure on the QB, we don't generate turnovers and we have problems with field position because we can't find a guy who can KO into the endzone.

I guess we focus on offense because that's what we as lay people can see - at least that's what we think we can see.

I feel a lot more confident in the play on the defensive side of the ball this year. I'm too lazy to look up the stats nationally, but I'm pretty sure that even though the defense is young and is playing lots of guys, and lots of key people like Chandler Jones have been hurt for half the season, is still doing a lot better than the offense, which was supposed to carry us this year. We've given up lots of long passes with the injuries in the secondary, but we haven't been vulnerable to runs up the middle like we were afraid coming into the year. Our young DTs have been pretty good against the run, even if they haven't been able to provide pass rush.

Meanwhile, the run blocking is among the worst in the nation, and the pass blocking is putting Nassib under lots of pressure, after he had such a good start to the year. The past 3 weeks, we've only scored 21 once, and were held in the teens the other 2 times.

 

[rrlbees]

I feel a lot more confident in the play on the defensive side of the ball this year. I'm too lazy to look up the stats nationally, but I'm pretty sure that even though the defense is young and is playing lots of guys, and lots of key people like Chandler Jones have been hurt for half the season, is still doing a lot better than the offense, which was supposed to carry us this year.

Stats in the BE say otherwise. We are doing OK offensively but getting hammered on the defensive side.

 

[SWC75]

BS PA im sick and tired of you blaming this on talent. Cant you see that Doug and Hack have **** the bed. Do you watch the games? Come on man wake up get rid of the man crush on
Doug and realize that he and hack have been so -ing poor running the O it is pathetic. If Doug was the OC he would be fired.

If he didn't blame the players or the facilities or the adminsitration or the weather or something- he'd have to blame the coaches.

 

[Stern]

the playcalling has been bad. Throwing a backwards pass in your own endzone vs UCONN...dumb. The goaline playcalling vs Rutgers was bad. The South Florida gameplan was confusing and made little sense. The continuing to run Baliey between the tackles is dumb beyond belief. The Tulane game where the offense stopped playing after halftime pretty much. I could go on all night here literally. The playcalling has been a huge issue.

 

[orangepassion]

The difference to me is that the D lost a ton-They at least have somewhat of an excuse of being bad. The offense has almost everyone back from last year, including a pretty good QB when he gets to throw consistently. Unfortunately, we're always playing from behind b/c we start every game playing not to lose and only wake up when we're losing and then switch to all pass. I am beginning to have my doubts that we're ever going to have an explosive offense under marrone. If we can't over whelm the other team's DL, we always have issues on O. Just very little creativity on offense and very predictable for the 1st 20 minutes.

 

[OrangePA]

43 yards, 3 punts and no points when trying to "establish the run". I credit the coaches with recognizing that that didn't work and going to the pass. But all season long we've fucntioned better when we used the pass to set up the run rather than the other way around. Why didn't we come out passing from the beginning in this one? It's not an issue of wanting the coahes to call plays they never call. It's about using the plays that have worked the best from the beginning of the game.

What exactly does that mean, "using the pass to set up the run"? Do you mean the coaches should throw the ball on first and second down? Is that what you're suggesting?

And how do you think the coaches decide before the game begins, what calls to make and on what down to call them?

How does that work?

 

[OrangePA]

:bang:

At this point you're either just messing with me or lying to yourself.

I guess I don't understand your point.

The offense had 405 yards against USF, including about 300 yards passing.

And, if I recall correctly, there were three apparent TD passes that were dropped by SU.

So, I don't think it's play calling - I think it's a combination of talent and execution. Do I disagree with a particular play call from time to time? Sure I do. But I try to remind myself that I have not studied tape, I know very little about the x's and o's of offensive or defensive football, and I do not know the specific attributes of my players or the opposing players. So, I try to stay away from the hackneyed "play calling" complaints.

I more frustrated by things that most on this board don't seem to address: (1) poor KOs; (2) stupid personal fouls; (3) poor tackling; and (4) an inability to truly pressure the QB.

No matter where you go, no matter what fans you listen to, it is always play calling that is the culprit. I think that's because we can see and understand the offensive play call. We can't see the defensive play call, for the most part, and can't see or understand things like OL blocking or secondary coverage, or least we don't perceive the subtleties of those aspects of the game.

 

[SWC75]

What exactly does that mean, "using the pass to set up the run"? Do you mean the coaches should throw the ball on first and second down? Is that what you're suggesting?

And how do you think the coaches decide before the game begins, what calls to make and on what down to call them?

How does that work?

I think they should do what they did the last three quarters of the South Flroida game and the second half of the Connecticut game and the first quarter of the USC game and the end of the Wake Forest game and the entire West Viringia game. Use the whole field and all their weapons to spread the defesne out and hit them in the gaps that develop with both passes and runs. it's what the rest of college football is doing. Running up the middle with a 5-7 scatback to set up play-action isn't working.

 

[SWC75]

the playcalling has been bad. Throwing a backwards pass in your own endzone vs UCONN...dumb. The goaline playcalling vs Rutgers was bad. The South Florida gameplan was confusing and made little sense. The continuing to run Baliey between the tackles is dumb beyond belief. The Tulane game where the offense stopped playing after halftime pretty much. I could go on all night here literally. The playcalling has been a huge issue.

The backwards pass vs. UCONN was intended to be a swing pass but #48 got in Nassib's face so he had to release it early. I agree with the rest of it.

 

[Stern]

The backwards pass vs. UCONN was intended to be a swing pass but #48 got in Nassib's face so he had to release it early. I agree with the rest of it.

True, but a swing pass in your own endzone is just as silly a playcall. I mean its high risk, low reward

 

[SWC75]

I guess I don't understand your point.

The offense had 405 yards against USF, including about 300 yards passing.

And, if I recall correctly, there were three apparent TD passes that were dropped by SU.

So, I don't think it's play calling - I think it's a combination of talent and execution. Do I disagree with a particular play call from time to time? Sure I do. But I try to remind myself that I have not studied tape, I know very little about the x's and o's of offensive or defensive football, and I do not know the specific attributes of my players or the opposing players. So, I try to stay away from the hackneyed "play calling" complaints.

I more frustrated by things that most on this board don't seem to address: (1) poor KOs; (2) stupid personal fouls; (3) poor tackling; and (4) an inability to truly pressure the QB.

No matter where you go, no matter what fans you listen to, it is always play calling that is the culprit. I think that's because we can see and understand the offensive play call. We can't see the defensive play call, for the most part, and can't see or understand things like OL blocking or secondary coverage, or least we don't perceive the subtleties of those aspects of the game.

We got the 300 yards passing by doing in the last three quarters what we should have been doing from the beginning of the game. That's what everyone here is talking about.

 

[cuseguy]

I don't have a huge issue with play calling with the exception of the 1st quarter every game. I think we use the same scripted set of plays every game at the start.

I don't think it helps (like this week) that SU announced its game plan before the game to the whole world. We're going run it down their throat! We all knew they weren't going to be able to run the ball with much success. And it does seem like Marrone has about 12 scripted plays to start the game. I think you need to be able to adjust more quickly than that.

 

[Stern]

^^and a lot of passing yards in garbage time when USF already had the game one

 

[OrangePA]

I think they should do what they did the last three quarters of the South Flroida game and the second half of the Connecticut game and the first quarter of the USC game and the end of the Wake Forest game and the entire West Viringia game. Use the whole field and all their weapons to spread the defesne out and hit them in the gaps that develop with both passes and runs. it's what the rest of college football is doing. Running up the middle with a 5-7 scatback to set up play-action isn't working.

Oh, so it's simply a matter of what plays we call.

So, you do have a problem with play calling.

I have to believe that that you understand the reality of football that play calling - whether it occurs in the first half or second half or first quarter - is dictated in part by what the defense does?

I mean, why was it that we couldn't continue to do against USC what we initially were able to do? Was that a function of our play calling?

Why don't you use your post as the template for your weekly question to Coach Marrone? I think it would go something like this "Coach why can't we do all the time what we did against USC in the first quarter, at the end of the game against WF, during the entire second half against UConn and the entire game against WVU?"