The key to this year going well is the defense

[IthacaMatt]

The real area of interest to me is special teams. We’ve had solid play in coverage and kicking/punting of late, but little in the way of anything dramatic. I’m hoping we can introduce some game-changing efforts in the return game. We really need offensive field position this year. Got to get this unit contributing to the success of the team this year.

I saw some wonderful special teams trickery watching Canadian football out of boredom the other night. The kick went down the middle of the field - the were four guys back - 1 on each third of the field, and then one in front of them for a pooch kick.

The up-back handled the ball, and they they basically ran a triple-option off of his possession. Each wide-out return man went toward the middle of the field, so the guy could do a reverse with a simple hand-off / pitch.

They deep guy delayed, like on a draw play, for the wide return men to cross, and then he came up the middle. The receiver / short-man could hand off, or fake it and run a keeper on a bootleg.

It was like watching old 1940s, wing-T football, with all the ball-handling trickery, but executed much faster, at "modern" speeds.

I'd love to see something like that once in a while. Coach Mac used to pull some tricks on returns. Some of them became famous moments in Orange history. It's certainly worth taking a chance when you only won 1 stinking game last year. This is no time for "coaching by the book". LOL

 

[GoSU96]

Offense hasn’t been an issue? Since when?

edit: I just finished reading the rest of your post. 5000k yards and 30 points. What? I’ll have some of whatever he’s smoking, please and thank you!

2016 5290 yds (441 pg) 25.7 pts pg
2017 5476 (456) 27.4
2018 6042 (465) 40.2
2019 4735 (396) 28.3

You think it’s outlandish that the offense will be 265 yds and 20.4 pts better than it was in 2019 with a more experienced and talented qb group, best set of rbs in at least a decade, deeper and veteran ol adding more pieces, and a veteran wr group adding more stature to the returning players?

 

[Nahson]

2016 5290 yds (441 pg) 25.7 pts pg
2017 5476 (456) 27.4
2018 6042 (465) 40.2
2019 4735 (396) 28.3

You think it’s outlandish that the offense will be 265 yds and 20.4 pts better than it was in 2019 with a more experienced and talented qb group, best set of rbs in at least a decade, deeper and veteran ol adding more pieces, and a veteran wr group adding more stature to the returning players?

We’re coming off a 1 win season, we haven’t averaged 30 points outside of 1 season (which Dungey was the anthesis) and you EXPECT 30 and 5k? Convenient you left out 2020.

If you honestly can’t sit there and say our offense is good, the D needs to pick up the slack. You don’t watch Cuse football. If anything, our D was solid and our offense was such and absolute joke, that our D got tired. Use your eyeballs dude.

I get it I sat through entire GRob games and constantly got into arguments with people that left the dome early. But if you’re going to sit there and say our offense isn’t a problem, you are delusional. I loved our D last season.

 

[Nahson]

We’re coming off a 1 win season, we haven’t averaged 30 points outside of 1 season (which Dungey was the anthesis) and you EXPECT 30 and 5k? Convenient you left out 2020.

If you honestly can’t sit there and say our offense is good, the D needs to pick up the slack. You don’t watch Cuse football. If anything, our D was solid and our offense was such and absolute joke, that our D got tired. Use your eyeballs dude.

I get it I sat through entire GRob games and constantly got into arguments with people that left the dome early. But if you’re going to sit there and say our offense isn’t a problem, you are delusional. I loved our D last season.

also I’m drunk right now and mad so if this didn’t make sense whatever. Just feel my fury.

 

[Chip]

I just hope we can run the ball. And I think we’ll be able to. Feels weird saying that, but the RBs, healthy OL, Schmidt.

In this offense, it really opens up the passing game and takes pressure off the defense.

 

[721Comstock]

I just hope we can run the ball. And I think we’ll be able to. Feels weird saying that, but the RBs, healthy OL, Schmidt.

In this offense, it really opens up the passing game and takes pressure off the defense.

I don’t even think it’s a case of having to “take pressure off the defense” -
the D was pretty damn good, at least for 3 or so quarters of most games.

It’s more a case of “don’t put more pressure ON to the defense” with multiple quick 3-and-outs and not converting on scoring opportunities when they are gifted to the O.

I do agree - I think we will be MUCH better at running the ball, due to combo of Coach Schmidt, RB depth and talent, and a (mostly) healthy O-Line with sufficient depth.

 

[SUfanNC]

also I’m drunk right now and mad so if this didn’t make sense whatever. Just feel my fury.

You must have went golfing

 

[TheCusian]

I don’t even think it’s a case of having to “take pressure off the defense” -
the D was pretty damn good, at least for 3 or so quarters of most games.

It’s more a case of “don’t put more pressure ON to the defense” with multiple quick 3-and-outs and not converting on scoring opportunities when they are gifted to the O.

I do agree - I think we will be MUCH better at running the ball, due to combo of Coach Schmidt, RB depth and talent, and a (mostly) healthy O-Line with sufficient depth.

Yep. I think that’s why I disagree with OP.

The OL/RB rooms are the key to a winning season. If we can get 3+ yards a carry when we want them, the O will open up and the D will be able to carry less of a load. And I do think the D will be better (even without the 3 guys in NFL camps right now)

 

[GoSU96]

We’re coming off a 1 win season, we haven’t averaged 30 points outside of 1 season (which Dungey was the anthesis) and you EXPECT 30 and 5k? Convenient you left out 2020.

If you honestly can’t sit there and say our offense is good, the D needs to pick up the slack. You don’t watch Cuse football. If anything, our D was solid and our offense was such and absolute joke, that our D got tired. Use your eyeballs dude.

I get it I sat through entire GRob games and constantly got into arguments with people that left the dome early. But if you’re going to sit there and say our offense isn’t a problem, you are delusional. I loved our D last season.

What is so hard to grasp, last year was a complete aberration on offense. They fell off a cliff for a number of reasons. It was a Gergian performance, I get it, but it was wildly inconsistent with the prior four years. Gerg had that kind of offense every year.

The defense on the other hand was consistent with the prior four years, and didn’t have to deal with the greater number of possessions that came with the hurry up in the past. The offense slowed played it and tried to play complimentary football, the defense still gave up 5.82 yds per play, 47.4% conversions on 3rd, and 32 pts per game, which is in line with what it has done year every year under Babers.

I fully expect the offense to bounce back to at least average production, if not a little bit better given the factors stated elsewhere. If the defense marginally improves, one area that made a huge difference in 2018 was 3rd down defense, this team has a chance of surprising.

 

[cusefan88]

What is so hard to grasp, last year was a complete aberration on offense. They fell off a cliff for a number of reasons. It was a Gergian performance, I get it, but it was wildly inconsistent with the prior four years. Gerg had that kind of offense every year.

The defense on the other hand was consistent with the prior four years, and didn’t have to deal with the greater number of possessions that came with the hurry up in the past. The offense slowed played it and tried to play complimentary football, the defense still gave up 5.82 yds per play, 47.4% conversions on 3rd, and 32 pts per game, which is in line with what it has done year every year under Babers.

I fully expect the offense to bounce back to at least average production, if not a little bit better given the factors stated elsewhere. If the defense marginally improves, one area that made a huge difference in 2018 was 3rd down defense, this team has a chance of surprising.

I think the defense having a full spring to work more on the 3-3-5 plus a better offense should mean some improvement. Let's not forget they basically played without Trill and Cisco for most of last season anyway.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Actually could not disagree more.

 

[GoSU96]

Actually could not disagree more.

So?

 

[upperdeck]

to think the offense cant score 3 more TDs than 2019 is not giving them much hope.. they kicked a ton of Fgs just convert 5 of those to TDs and there is your 20 pts..

if we can ever figure out 3rd/4th and 1-2 the offense gets better is that too much of a leap?

 

[TheCusian]

Boring take: If both the O and D go from bad to mediocre, we’ll win 6 with this schedule

 

[NineOneSeven]

So?

So nothing. I disagree with what you’re saying. The power of these forums.

 

[IthacaMatt]

2016 5290 yds (441 pg) 25.7 pts pg
2017 5476 (456) 27.4
2018 6042 (465) 40.2
2019 4735 (396) 28.3

You think it’s outlandish that the offense will be 265 yds and 20.4 pts better than it was in 2019 with a more experienced and talented qb group, best set of rbs in at least a decade, deeper and veteran ol adding more pieces, and a veteran wr group adding more stature to the returning players?

Yeah, when he casually dropped that "thirty points a game", I said to myself, "If we were doing that, we'd have been going to bowl games these past few years."

 

[Crusty]

While it is hard to guess how we will fare this year, I don't think it is hard to conclude that we WILL be better than last year. Hard to imagine the OLine not being much improved (insert injury disclaimer here) and, if so, everything will improve. Just being in the middle of the conference in sacks allowed will add yards and points as well as reduce interceptions.

As the table below illustrates, important as the run game is (and it helps the passing game) and as important as the defense is, we can't win without a very good passing attack.

IMHO, a healty OLine and a motivated TD can easily put up 3,500 passing yards and 30+ points and the run game could be awesome.

As has often been pointed out here, in order to be a ranked team we need to score 35+ points per game. Probably 30 to go bowling.

For me I don't think you can move the chains unless you can pass. This is all in the hands of the QB and what he can do with enough time to pass. (If he can't get that nothing else matters.)

Understanding that I may regret this, put me squarely in the camp of 5,000 yards and 30 PPP and a 7-6 season. We will beat Ohio, Albany, Pitt, BC, Wake, Liberty and NC State (yes, NC State). We might even give Clemson a few moments of deja vu.
LGO!

 

[qdawgg]

While it is hard to guess how we will fare this year, I don't think it is hard to conclude that we WILL be better than last year. Hard to imagine the OLine not being much improved (insert injury disclaimer here) and, if so, everything will improve. Just being in the middle of the conference in sacks allowed will add yards and points as well as reduce interceptions.

As the table below illustrates, important as the run game is (and it helps the passing game) and as important as the defense is, we can't win without a very good passing attack.

IMHO, a healty OLine and a motivated TD can easily put up 3,500 passing yards and 30+ points and the run game could be awesome.

As has often been pointed out here, in order to be a ranked team we need to score 35+ points per game. Probably 30 to go bowling.

For me I don't think you can move the chains unless you can pass. This is all in the hands of the QB and what he can do with enough time to pass. (If he can't get that nothing else matters.)

Understanding that I may regret this, put me squarely in the camp of 5,000 yards and 30 PPP and a 7-6 season. We will beat Ohio, Albany, Pitt, BC, Wake, Liberty and NC State (yes, NC State). We might even give Clemson a few moments of deja vu.
LGO!

View attachment 204720

I think or at least to me this shows how important the run game is to the offense. It’s not the passing game although the passing game is obviously important. But I didn’t expect to see such an obvious difference in the run game #’s in 2018 compared to the other seasons. Has made it even more clear to me we win/lose this year on the run game.

 

[Scooch]

Doesn't seem that 30 PPG will be enough to get to a bowl, regardless of the D. PPG is a weird stat anyway, since it can be skewed by piling up points against OOC teams. We scored 25 PPG against ACC opponents in 2019, and 23 PPG in 2017. That's pretty lousy, and our record reflected that.

Obviously, we'd love to have a strong D. But I think expecting 30 PPG is a bit of a reach, given how mediocre the O was at scoring points in all but 2018 under Babers.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Doesn't seem that 30 PPG will be enough to get to a bowl, regardless of the D. PPG is a weird stat anyway, since it can be skewed by piling up points against OOC teams. We scored 25 PPG against ACC opponents in 2019, and 23 PPG in 2017. That's pretty lousy, and our record reflected that.

Obviously, we'd love to have a strong D. But I think expecting 30 PPG is a bit of a reach, given how mediocre the O was at scoring points in all but 2018 under Babers.

I think 30 would be enough, looking at the 2019 season there were 58 teams that averaged 30 PPG and glancing at the list, I'd say 85-90% of them ended up making a bowl that year. But I honestly think getting to 30 PPG for us is a little unrealistic unless Shrader is the real deal. I think aiming for 27 or 28 PPG should be the goal.

 

[Scooch]

I think 30 would be enough, looking at the 2019 season there were 58 teams that averaged 30 PPG and glancing at the list, I'd say 85-90% of them ended up making a bowl that year. But I honestly think getting to 30 PPG for us is a little unrealistic unless Shrader is the real deal. I think aiming for 27 or 28 PPG should be the goal.

That's fair. I guess I just don't have nearly the optimism of others to assume that the O will be good enough. We still have an unsettled QB position, lots of questions at WR, and who-the-hell-knows at OL. 30 PPG may be enough to get us to 6 wins, assuming the D isn't a flaming wreck.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's fair. I guess I just don't have nearly the optimism of others to assume that the O will be good enough. We still have an unsettled QB position, lots of questions at WR, and who-the-hell-knows at OL. 30 PPG may be enough to get us to 6 wins, assuming the D isn't a flaming wreck.

Eh, I don't think it's that bad.

We've got 2 QBs with starting experience (3 if you count 'Ssippi). Maybe it was meh experience, but they're not a total unknown and it's also not crazy to think they've improved.

Do we really have that many questions at WR? Harris and Queeley are pretty solid as a returning duo. We need to figure out slot and the 2nd line, but that doesn't seem like that big a deal. Those will get figured out somehow.

OL has a lot of questions just because that unit has sucked and it's guilty until proven innocent. But it was historically bad, I'm going to guess lightning doesn't strike twice and we make a step forward.

Everyone seems to feel pretty good about RB.

I don't know, I get the hesitation, but I think a case can be made that we have a more promising offense going into 2021 than we did 2019 (which was based on jumps we thought we'd see from Harris and DeVito that didn't pan out).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Doesn't seem that 30 PPG will be enough to get to a bowl, regardless of the D. PPG is a weird stat anyway, since it can be skewed by piling up points against OOC teams. We scored 25 PPG against ACC opponents in 2019, and 23 PPG in 2017. That's pretty lousy, and our record reflected that.

Obviously, we'd love to have a strong D. But I think expecting 30 PPG is a bit of a reach, given how mediocre the O was at scoring points in all but 2018 under Babers.

The 2019 O IMO was a bigger problem than the D. The 2020 O IMO was a bigger problem than the D. But in 2021 the O scoring 30+ ppg is a given and the D is the bigger issue?

In 2019 we failed to get more than 3 scores (25+ points) in 6 of our 12 games. In our 9 games against the P5 we scored 25+ points in only 4 of them. We averaged 24.7 ppg vs the P5 which was 9th best in the ACC. When we scored 25+ points we were 4-2. Perfectly fine to blame the D in those games. But we also lost a game where the D only gave up 27 and another where they gave up 16 points!

CFB is now all about the O. If you allow less than 30 ppg vs the P5 you are just about average. In Dino's tenure allowing 29.9 ppg vs the P5 puts you in the ACC at 7th best (2020), 8th (2019), 8th (2018), 10th (2017), 10th (2016). That is a mediocre D, but should be good enough to make a Bowl.

You need your O to score. Dino's O has had ONE year where we scored 25 or more points per game vs the P5. It isn't realistic to expect the D to hold P5 teams to less than 25 ppg. Our glory year in 2018 we allowed 26.9 ppg vs the P5. With the 2019, 2017, or 2016 O that isn't good enough to get to a Bowl.

 

[qdawgg]

WR is a big ? for me. It seems like every year there’s optimism and unless there’s one player that is a standout for that position, the whole unit seems incapable of getting open or any separation. Even then the unit as a whole is consistently, inconsistent. I’m not convinced yet the unit it going to be so much better. However, if the running game improves, the OL, and we notice there’s TE’s on the team the WR #’s should be better.

OL can’t be worse, so it has to be better. I think it will at least be serviceable but hoping for just doing enough to see some level of a CFB offense. The offense has looked a lot like a Shafer coached team at times.

QB - who knows. No idea what to expect with TD. I don’t buy in to the idea that having physical skills automatically makes you a good QB so everything that goes wrong is the fault of everyone else. I’m confident between TD and shrader we should be able to win games though, whomever it is.

I expect certain units to be better this year but I don’t buy in to the idea that players and units improve every year. In that case we’ll never be competitive b/c all the teams we play will be improving as well.

 

[Scooch]

Eh, I don't think it's that bad.

We've got 2 QBs with starting experience (3 if you count 'Ssippi). Maybe it was meh experience, but they're not a total unknown and it's also not crazy to think they've improved.

Do we really have that many questions at WR? Harris and Queeley are pretty solid as a returning duo. We need to figure out slot and the 2nd line, but that doesn't seem like that big a deal. Those will get figured out somehow.

OL has a lot of questions just because that unit has sucked and it's guilty until proven innocent. But it was historically bad, I'm going to guess lightning doesn't strike twice and we make a step forward.

Everyone seems to feel pretty good about RB.

I don't know, I get the hesitation, but I think a case can be made that we have a more promising offense going into 2021 than we did 2019 (which was based on jumps we thought we'd see from Harris and DeVito that didn't pan out).

I'll readily admit that I'm about as pessimistic as I have been ahead of any season going back to late-era GRob. So take my opinions with a huge grain of salt.

QB: We do have guys who have played before. And improvement can always happen. I just worry that the MS St kid won't be ready to really contribute early, and that TD is what he is. Maybe someone will make the leap, who knows, but it's difficult to be confident about that IMHO,

WR: Harris and Queeley are... fine. Again, improvement can happen, but I worry that we don't have anyone that keeps DCs up at night.

OL: We're almost always below average here, and I've heard nothing to believe we'll be anything much better than below average this season.

Agree that RB should be good.

Maybe we'll see improvement all over the place, I sure hope we do. At this point I don't see much much more than people hoping though.