The New Syracuse Sports Arena

[Zippy1808]

I thought there was only one poster on this board that lived in Lawrinson Hall. This person must be a fraud!

My screen name (dating back to the days of AOL IM) is a tribute to Lawrinson! Room 1808!!

 

[sufandu]

You appreciate that Detroit's debt is estimated at $18B+, right? Did Detroit build an $18B hockey arena?

I don't think it's about one arena. It's the idea that tax dollars are spent on "investments" that do nothing more than make a small area look good. That can be athletic arenas or city landscaping or any other number of things. The main point is, it's money that doesn't exist. It would be like planting pretty flowers in front of your house while your roof caves in.

 

[MCC]

I read this really cool research once about how schools of fish and herds of animals make decisions. Contrary to the idea that alpha animals are primarily responsible for decision making, it was one or two lesser members changing direction until a critical mass is reached that was responsible. Once enough members change direction in their thinking the entire group changes direction en mass. I wish I was able to find the research but too many google hits. Once you add a number of self-aware intelligences to the chaos with all the feedback loops the computations quickly get insanely complicated! It's hard to imagine it all reduces to simple butterfly graphs.

Yes, very neat stuff. Gets even "neatier"when you consider bacterial swarming. The physics of motion - especially inertia / momentum and shear forces - are vastly different from what occurs on our "macro" level. Some of the "behavioral responses" are similar. The paper below might interest you.

Phys Rev Lett. 2013 Nov 27;111(22):228101. Epub 2013 Nov 25.
Collective Stop-and-Go Dynamics of Active Bacteria Swarms.
Svenšek D1, Pleiner H2, Brand HR3.
Author information
Abstract
We set up a macroscopic model of bacterial growth and transport based on a dynamic preferred direction-the collective velocity of the bacteria. This collective velocity is subject to the isotropic-nematic transition modeling the density-controlled transformation between immotile and motile bacterial states. The choice of the dynamic preferred direction introduces a distinctive coupling of orientational ordering and transport not encountered otherwise. The approach can also be applied to other systems spontaneously switching between individual (disordered) and collective (ordered) behavior and/or collectively responding to density variations, e.g., bird flocks, fish schools, etc. We observe a characteristic and robust stop-and-go behavior. The inclusion of chirality results in a complex pulsating dynamics.

 

[Todd Gack]

I don't think it's about one arena. It's the idea that tax dollars are spent on "investments" that do nothing more than make a small area look good. That can be athletic arenas or city landscaping or any other number of things. The main point is, it's money that doesn't exist. It would be like planting pretty flowers in front of your house while your roof caves in.

I was responding to Dave85's argument that spending on a hockey arena bankrupted Detroit. That's simply not true.

 

[Dave85]

Yes, very neat stuff. Gets even "neatier"when you consider bacterial swarming. The physics of motion - especially inertia / momentum and shear forces - are vastly different from what occurs on our "macro" level. Some of the "behavioral responses" are similar. The paper below might interest you.

Phys Rev Lett. 2013 Nov 27;111(22):228101. Epub 2013 Nov 25.
Collective Stop-and-Go Dynamics of Active Bacteria Swarms.
Svenšek D1, Pleiner H2, Brand HR3.
Author information
Abstract
We set up a macroscopic model of bacterial growth and transport based on a dynamic preferred direction-the collective velocity of the bacteria. This collective velocity is subject to the isotropic-nematic transition modeling the density-controlled transformation between immotile and motile bacterial states. The choice of the dynamic preferred direction introduces a distinctive coupling of orientational ordering and transport not encountered otherwise. The approach can also be applied to other systems spontaneously switching between individual (disordered) and collective (ordered) behavior and/or collectively responding to density variations, e.g., bird flocks, fish schools, etc. We observe a characteristic and robust stop-and-go behavior. The inclusion of chirality results in a complex pulsating dynamics.

At some level, all these posts have something to do with winning basketball games! I'm just not sure what it is!

 

[Dave85]

"Does Syracuse need a new sports arena? Readers weigh in (Your letters)"

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/ind...orts_arena_readers_weigh_in_your_letters.html

 

[EastCoast2]

New arena? No thanks. How bout using some of that $200 M instead to renovate and modernize the dome. Let's start with the concourses.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Call me old fashioned, but I want the SU teams to play home games ON CAMPUS. If I had a vote, I'd go for renovating the Dome.

 

[Madbiker]

Call me old fashioned, but I want the SU teams to play home games ON CAMPUS. If I had a vote, I'd go for renovating the Dome.

Me too. Disappointing that so many people are in a rush to screw up a good thing.

 

[sufandu]

I was responding to Dave85's argument that spending on a hockey arena bankrupted Detroit. That's simply not true.

I know. I assumed he was using the hockey arena as an example of the larger problem, not the problem by itself. I could be wrong with that assumption.

 

[sufandu]

Me too. Disappointing that so many people are in a rush to screw up a good thing.

Hopefully the powers on the hill recognize how good it it.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Wait, a huge Mall in Syracuse with train access? That'll never happen. Can you comprehend the investment in building a huge mall in Syracuse? Do we expect to draw patrons from Canada to justify such an undertaking? Come on, now!

Any big malls they build in Syracuse usually take forever and never get finished, at least per the original plans.

 

[two3zone]

If we weren't drawing then it would be something to talk about. But the dome isn't the issue.

Fix the roads around the dome, build more efficient parking garages. Building an off campus stadium for a team that continues to break attendance records seems pointless.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Why not use it to develop the area around Destiny and the inner harbor. I've never understood how a new sports arena helps an economy. I can see an argument, if you're a pro sports town, but we're not. The Dome already has the biggest crowds in college basketball, and a new arena isn't going to do anything to draw bigger crowds for football, so what would the point be? We live in this culture that believes if you make a big splash with something, you get long term benefits from it. The truth is, a big splash will get you 15 minutes in the spotlight followed by exactly what existed prior to the splash.

This was already supposed to be developed as part of the phase three Destiny expansion, but as usual Congel dropped the ball and never followed through.

 

[two3zone]

This was already supposed to be developed as part of the phase three Destiny expansion, but as usual Congel dropped the ball and never followed through.

They didn't drop the ball, I honestly don't think they planned on building anymore. They knew they just had to build the extension they did to get their tax breaks and they stopped. The city of Syracuse dropped the ball on this one.

 

[CaptainJ]

I want to say one word: grifters. It's what you need to understand when following a money trail, and seeing who benefits. Plus I just like saying the word grifters or any variant of it.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

The $300 million of bonds the city will be liable is the reason for the boondoggle. This is exactly what happened to Detroit and their sports arena that bankrupted the city. Police, teachers, and firemen will probably lose their pensions. It's not rationale. It's about floating exotic municipal bonds for making millions at the expense of the general public.

Not buying that line. Govco workers are losing their pensions because the city leaders promised them unrealistic benefits to buy their votes now in order to get elected and maintain power. It coming time to pay that piper and the money simply isn't there to pay them - and it never was going to be there. It's happening in more and more municipalities around the country, and most of them don't have new hockey arenas.

 

[BludOrange]

Longtime lurker coming out of my hole for my first post...
I am all for a new sports arena if it would somehow create more of a home court advantage for our beloved SU basketball than they already have, and not hurt recruiting in any way. The Dome is not a true hostile environment that many of us wish it was or could be. 20,000+ fans can make a lot more noise the they currently do. Maybe a new arena(preferably on campus if were to happen) would allow the students to be wrapped around the court, a section or two for the passionate/rabid fans who don't want to sit down during games so the golf-clapper can see. I sometimes think the smaller SU fan base that is present at road games when we take over the visitor's arena can be heard more on a TV broadcast then the cheers at the dome. I don't have money to donate, purchase season tickets or even buy good seats to one game(luckily my boss gives me his tickets to 4 or 5 games a year), but i probably would not notice or mind a few of my tax dollars going to help build the Orangemen a better home court advantage and recruiting tool. GO CUSE!

 

[sufandu]

This was already supposed to be developed as part of the phase three Destiny expansion, but as usual Congel dropped the ball and never followed through.

I know. But if there is $200 million that they are bound and determined to throw at something, it makes more sense to me to do it there. We'd also get the added satisfaction of Congel not owning it.

 

[Dave85]

Not buying that line. Govco workers are losing their pensions because the city leaders promised them unrealistic benefits to buy their votes now in order to get elected and maintain power. It coming time to pay that piper and the money simply isn't there to pay them - and it never was going to be there. It's happening in more and more municipalities around the country, and most of them don't have new hockey arenas.

Well, you may be right about the promises in order to get elected. But I think there is more to the story here. My point to you would be do you really think God did not know exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. Maybe Wall Street is selling too many apples!

http://systemicdisorder.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/wall-street-plunders-detroit/

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

Well, you may be right about the promises in order to get elected. But I think there is more to the story here. My point to you would be do you really think God did not know exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. Maybe Wall Street is selling too many apples!

http://systemicdisorder.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/wall-street-plunders-detroit/

An interesting site, but I'm just not buying some of the specific conclusions in that particular article. Maybe Govco is just too big.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."

 

[Dave85]

An interesting site, but I'm just not buying some of the specific conclusions in that particular article. Maybe Govco is just too big.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."

Well, all things in moderation. The government is your enemy until you need a friend.