The New Syracuse Sports Arena

[Dave85]

If you haven't heard of the butterfly effect it's an idea in chaos theory. The idea is a butterfly in Syracuse flapping its wings can cause a typhoon in China. So here is my attempt at flapping my mouth. Instead of spending $500 million on a new Syracuse Sports Arena at the former site of Kennedy Square, keep the Dome and build a giant mall, parking lot, and light rail system. It would be like the Red Line in Boston. During games, extra trains can be used to move thousands of people to and from the Dome very quickly. During non-game times students can use the light rail system to go to the mall. It would be a lot cheaper than building a new stadium. And it would create a lot jobs and easier commuting for people working in the city.

I think having a stadium off campus would be a huge mistake. It would be like Villanova games. I think the on-campus stadium adds great character to the school.

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/01/syracuse_basketball_new_arena_poll.html

 

[TerryM]

Ill have what he is smoking

 

[Zippy1808]

See: OnTrack.
Campus -> Armory -> Mall
$1.50/ride.

I used it freshman year a lot (very convenient as I lived in Lawrinson Hall).
So much better than the bus - especially on the way home with bags from the mall.

But it was a failure.
Published reports say it got 75 riders a day.
Syracuse is not a train city.

 

[realorange]

See: OnTrack.
Campus -> Armory -> Mall
$1.50/ride.

I used it freshman year a lot (very convenient as I lived in Lawrinson Hall).
So much better than the bus - especially on the way home with bags from the mall.

But it was a failure.
Published reports say it got 75 riders a day.
Syracuse is not a train city.

I thought there was only one poster on this board that lived in Lawrinson Hall. This person must be a fraud!

 

[sufandu]

Wait, a huge Mall in Syracuse with train access? That'll never happen. Can you comprehend the investment in building a huge mall in Syracuse? Do we expect to draw patrons from Canada to justify such an undertaking? Come on, now!

 

[Millhouse]

If you haven't heard of the butterfly effect it's an idea in chaos theory. The idea is a butterfly in Syracuse flapping its wings can cause a typhoon in China. So here is my attempt at flapping my mouth. Instead of spending $500 million on a new Syracuse Sports Arena at the former site of Kennedy Square, keep the Dome and build a giant mall, parking lot, and light rail system. It would be like the Red Line in Boston. During games, extra trains can be used to move thousands of people to and from the Dome very quickly. During non-game times students can use the light rail system to go to the mall. It would be a lot cheaper than building a new stadium. And it would create a lot jobs and easier commuting for people working in the city.

I think having a stadium off campus would be a huge mistake. It would be like Villanova games. I think the on-campus stadium adds great character to the school.

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/01/syracuse_basketball_new_arena_poll.html

here's my mouth flapping

don't spend 500 million.

 

[Lawrinson14]

I thought there was only one poster on this board that lived in Lawrinson Hall. This person must be a fraud!

<---Ehem.

 

[cto]

When I was at Destiny last month, I noticed a lot of empty store fronts. Another large mall in Syracuse? I don't think so.

 

[Dave85]

When I was at Destiny last month, I noticed a lot of empty store fronts. Another large mall in Syracuse? I don't think so.

Yeah, you probably are right. Once Albany gets involved with a $200 million dollar seed money, here come the bonds! The sports arena is practically built already. Call me old fashion but I thought when they moved the games from Manley Field house to the Dome the Orange lost some home court advantage. I think moving basketball games off campus is way too much like Villanova. I don't like the idea. But you can't stop politicians with their boondoggles.

 

[Dave85]

here's my mouth flapping

don't spend 500 million.

Too bad you are not the one in charge! I think moving basketball games off campus is way too much like Villanova. I don't like the idea. But you can't stop politicians with their boondoggles.

 

[Dave85]

Wait, a huge Mall in Syracuse with train access? That'll never happen. Can you comprehend the investment in building a huge mall in Syracuse? Do we expect to draw patrons from Canada to justify such an undertaking? Come on, now!

You are right. F the train idea. The $200 million will definitely go to build the Sports Arena. You can't stop a good boondoggle!

 

[Dave85]

Ill have what he is smoking

I'd rather have the $200 million from Albany spent on anything BUT a new sports arena. What are you smoking that would prefer to go to basketball games off campus?

 

[Dave85]

Say goodbye to the Dome.

 

[sufandu]

You are right. F the train idea. The $200 million will definitely go to build the Sports Arena. You can't stop a good boondoggle!

I think it's a great idea, if people took advantage of it. You may have missed my sarcasm. We have a huge mall already with train tracks running right behind it. If I recall, you used to be able to catch the train there and get dropped off behind the dome. So few people used it, they stopped doing it.

Someone feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

[Dave85]

I think it's a great idea, if people took advantage of it. You may have missed my sarcasm. We have a huge mall already with train tracks running right behind it. If I recall, you used to be able to catch the train there and get dropped off behind the dome. So few people used it, they stopped doing it.

Someone feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong.

You are right. But when politicians start waving $200 million dollars around it needs a place to go! As much as I would like to see a way to configure the Dome to get more seating I've gotten used to the way they do it over the years. I really like the on-campus arena experience. It would really stink if BB games are off campus. And you know it is going to happen because if they build this $500 million monstrosity the people in Syracuse will be in debt for years. Police, teachers, and firemen will probably lose their pensions. This is exactly what happened to Detroit with their sports arena. And if they build it, they will have to use it.

 

[sufandu]

I'd rather have the $200 million from Albany spent on anything BUT a new sports arena. What are you smoking that would prefer to go to basketball games off campus?

Why not use it to develop the area around Destiny and the inner harbor. I've never understood how a new sports arena helps an economy. I can see an argument, if you're a pro sports town, but we're not. The Dome already has the biggest crowds in college basketball, and a new arena isn't going to do anything to draw bigger crowds for football, so what would the point be? We live in this culture that believes if you make a big splash with something, you get long term benefits from it. The truth is, a big splash will get you 15 minutes in the spotlight followed by exactly what existed prior to the splash.

 

[Dave85]

Why not use it to develop the area around Destiny and the inner harbor. I've never understood how a new sports arena helps an economy. I can see an argument, if you're a pro sports town, but we're not. The Dome already has the biggest crowds in college basketball, and a new arena isn't going to do anything to draw bigger crowds for football, so what would the point be? We live in this culture that believes if you make a big splash with something, you get long term benefits from it. The truth is, a big splash will get you 15 minutes in the spotlight followed by exactly what existed prior to the splash.

The $300 million of bonds the city will be liable is the reason for the boondoggle. This is exactly what happened to Detroit and their sports arena that bankrupted the city. Police, teachers, and firemen will probably lose their pensions. It's not rationale. It's about floating exotic municipal bonds for making millions at the expense of the general public.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

here's my mouth flapping

don't spend 500 million.

Why not? The Fed can just print the money, and future generations will have to pay it back, not us. Let's have fun now, and we won't have to work for it!

 

[Todd Gack]

The $300 million of bonds the city will be liable is the reason for the boondoggle. This is exactly what happened to Detroit and their sports arena that bankrupted the city. Police, teachers, and firemen will probably lose their pensions. It's not rationale. It's about floating exotic municipal bonds for making millions at the expense of the general public.

Detroit was not brought down by a sports arena.

 

[Dave85]

Why not? The Fed can just print the money, and future generations will have to pay it back, not us. Let's have fun now, and we won't have to work for it!

I hate politics. I would prefer the Fed would support strong dollar policies. But that said, we have plenty of supply in this economy. But what we don't have is demand for products. No demand means no job. The top 1% simply do not spend enough money for goods and services to create any real job growth. I think our economy needs a healthy dose of Demand-Side economics. I don't care if left-wing or right-wing tactics are used. Jobs come from demand for products and services. Without some kind of stimulus we will continue to have a zombie economy. Where is the increase demand for products and services going to come from?

That's said, I would love to see $200 million go to Syracuse to improve infrastructure. But I would hate to see it go to a new sports arena. I like the Dome.

 

[Dave85]

Detroit was not brought down by a sports arena.

I guess "the truth" is the eye of the beholder.

"Wall Street plunders Detroit while pensioners take blame"

http://systemicdisorder.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/wall-street-plunders-detroit/

 

[Todd Gack]

I guess "the truth" is the eye of the beholder. "Wall Street plunders Detroit while pensioners take blame" http://systemicdisorder.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/wall-street-plunders-detroit/

You appreciate that Detroit's debt is estimated at $18B+, right? Did Detroit build an $18B hockey arena?

 

[MCC]

If you haven't heard of the butterfly effect it's an idea in chaos theory. The idea is a butterfly in Syracuse flapping its wings can cause a typhoon in China.

You know what's really neat? Get this: Edward Lorenz is credited for coming up with the "Butterfly Effect" when he applied a set of a dozen or so nonlinear differential equations to predict weather, and found that rounding off one of his inputs yielded a massive shift in the predicted weather outcome. Lorenz then went on to simplify the nonlinear eqs describing fluid dynamics. As you might expect fluid convection paths are chaotic in nature, and when you plot the outcomes of Lorenz's set of eqs with certain values imputed you come up with this model in the X - Z plane:

The above is the X - Z plot of the first described "Strange Attractor", namely the Lorenz Attractor. Looks a lot like a butterfly, yes? What this describes is a system that is unpredictable: you never know where on the attractor the system will be, and it never repeats itself (thus it's non-periodic, or "chaotic"). I was rather stunned and delighted to learn this and had the image made into a T-shirt with the X - Z plot on the back and the nonlinear equations on the front. Unfortunately said shirt began to disintegrate due to frequent wears over the years and had to be tossed. I should seek to have it reincarnated now that this thread has spurred my memory.

 

[Dave85]

You know what's really neat? Get this: Edward Lorenz is credited for coming up with the "Butterfly Effect" when he applied a set of a dozen or so nonlinear differential equations to predict weather, and found that rounding off one of his inputs yielded a massive shift in the predicted weather outcome. Lorenz then went on to simplify the nonlinear eqs describing fluid dynamics. As you might expect fluid convection paths are chaotic in nature, and when you plot the outcomes of Lorenz's set of eqs with certain values imputed you come up with this model in the X - Z plane:

The above is the X - Z plot of the first described "Strange Attractor", namely the Lorenz Attractor. Looks a lot like a butterfly, yes? What this describes is a system that is unpredictable: you never know where on the attractor the system will be, and it never repeats itself (thus it's non-periodic, or "chaotic"). I was rather stunned and delighted to learn this and had the image made into a T-shirt with the X - Z plot on the back and the nonlinear equations on the front. Unfortunately said shirt began to disintegrate due to frequent wears over the years and had to be tossed. I should seek to have it reincarnated now that this thread has spurred my memory.

I read this really cool research once about how schools of fish and herds of animals make decisions. Contrary to the idea that alpha animals are primarily responsible for decision making, it was one or two lesser members changing direction until a critical mass is reached that was responsible. Once enough members change direction in their thinking the entire group changes direction en mass. I wish I was able to find the research but too many google hits. Once you add a number of self-aware intelligences to the chaos with all the feedback loops the computations quickly get insanely complicated! It's hard to imagine it all reduces to simple butterfly graphs.

 

[cpatrocks]

I don't get it.

I think a new 40,000 seat Football/BBall stadium for SU Sports WITH a retractable roof signs AMAZING. I love going to the games and I would love it even more with a brand new stadium. I could care less how they pay for it.