The number one question I would ask JB/MH is how many players are currently on scholarship

[Alsacs]

I should preface this with the number one question that JB/MH could answer right now.

That answer would tell you a lot of things. I hope a member of the media who is respected like Mike Waters asks that question. It would tell you a lot of things If any walkons are scholarship it means we aren't self-imposing a reduction this season. We have 10 players on scholarship right now and typically JB will put a walkon on scholarship in this scenario to help with the APR,.

 

[CuseHulk]

10

Only variable would have been the kid that transferred from Monmouth, but just read he (although does have to sit out this year, due to transfer rules) he is coming on as a walk on "though there is always a possibility of aide" this is what Coach B said courtesy of Syracuse.com article

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske..._white_will_join_syracuse_basketball_pro.html

And there are 4 walk on's total this year, 3 new (including a grad student), and 1 returning.

 

[RF2044]

I should preface this with the number one question that JB/MH could answer right now.

That answer would tell you a lot of things. I hope a member of the media who is respected like Mike Waters asks that question. It would tell you a lot of things If any walkons are scholarship it means we aren't self-imposing a reduction this season. We have 10 players on scholarship right now and typically JB will put a walkon on scholarship in this scenario to help with the APR,.

10

Only variable would have been the kid that transferred from Monmouth, but just read he (although does have to sit out this year, due to transfer rules) he is coming on as a walk on "though there is always a possibility of aide" this is what Coach B said courtesy of Syracuse.com article

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske..._white_will_join_syracuse_basketball_pro.html

And there are 4 walk on's total this year, 3 new (including a grad student), and 1 returning.

JB is smart to situationally provide walk ons to scholarship, for the APR boost they can provide.

But as Alsacs suggests, if ever there was a year to skip that, this would be the year. If a 1-2 scholarship reduction has to happen, I'd prefer for it to be applied to this year so that it doesn't impact our recruitment of Bryant. He's a must get, IMO, given that we don't know whether Coleman will be able to return to form next year.

 

[Alsacs]

10

Only variable would have been the kid that transferred from Monmouth, but just read he (although does have to sit out this year, due to transfer rules) he is coming on as a walk on "though there is always a possibility of aide" this is what Coach B said courtesy of Syracuse.com article

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske..._white_will_join_syracuse_basketball_pro.html

And there are 4 walk on's total this year, 3 new (including a grad student), and 1 returning.

You aren't getting my point. I know we have 10 guys, but JB will put walkons on scholarship if they are available as a reward to those kids because they work hard and them on scholarship helps the APR because they are students first and not coming to Syracuse to play basketball.

If JB isn't using the 2 available scholarship this year for walkons that would make me think we are self-imposing a reduction for this year.

 

[jordoo]

You aren't getting my point. I know we have 10 guys, but JB will put walkons on scholarship if they are available as a reward to those kids because they work hard and them on scholarship helps the APR because they are students first and not coming to Syracuse to play basketball.

If JB isn't using the 2 available scholarship this year for walkons that would make me think we are self-imposing a reduction for this year.

Correct which means we make that case to the NCAA's and they can look good for slapping us a 2 scholly penalty that really doesn't effect us. Its called negotiation.

 

[CuseHulk]

You aren't getting my point. I know we have 10 guys, but JB will put walkons on scholarship if they are available as a reward to those kids because they work hard and them on scholarship helps the APR because they are students first and not coming to Syracuse to play basketball.

If JB isn't using the 2 available scholarship this year for walkons that would make me think we are self-imposing a reduction for this year.

I don't think they are. I would be shocked if either of the 3 new walkons would be on scholarship, 1 returner i don't know.

Either 10 or 11 at most.

 

[Alsacs]

Correct which means we make that case to the NCAA's and they can look good for slapping us a 2 scholly penalty that really doesn't effect us. Its called negotiation.

Bingo having the ability to take a 2 scholly penalty right now is HUGE. It is what we did in 2010 with the APR and this is why I am not too worried as long as we let the NCAA think they are nailing us and save face this has to be the avenue we explore. If we need to take another 1 year hit with a loss of scholly that would suck, but not be the end of the world.

 

[orange79]

JB is smart to situationally provide walk ons to scholarship, for the APR boost they can provide.

But as Alsacs suggests, if ever there was a year to skip that, this would be the year. If a 1 scholarship reduction has to happen, I'd prefer for it to happen now so that it doesn't impact our recruitment of Bryant. He's a must get, IMO, given that we don't know whether Coleman will be able to return to form next year.

Problem is, in this situation it might be a Catch-22. Someone posted the other day a list of how we stand with APR by team. Too lazy to find it right now, but it looked as if the hoops team might need a smart walk-on, unless I misread the numbers. We might not have that luxury if we get penalized in terms of lost scholarships.

 

[iommi]

Stupid question: How many players are we allowed to have on scholarship? 12, right?

 

[RF2044]

Stupd question: How many players are we allowed to have on scholarhsip? 12, right?

13.

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

 

[Alsacs]

Problem is, in this situation it might be a Catch-22. Someone posted the other day a list of how we stand with APR by team. Too lazy to find it right now, but it looked as if the hoops team might need a smart walk-on, unless I misread the numbers. We might not have that luxury if we get penalized in terms of lost scholarships.

Why? All we need to do is make sure the athletes on the team this year go to class and show academic progress. The walkons give stars some leeway to slack, but if we are close you just have the tutors ride the players hard and since this season is not NC season so going 23-8 vs 27-4 isn't a problem we can take the hit on the court this season for the future.

 

[Alsacs]

LOL the scholarship limit is 13? So instead of taking a 2 scholarship this year we could theoretically take a 3 SCHOLARSHIP hit this year. That is what we should do. I am sorry to the walkons but if we take a self imposed 3 scholly hit that should show some serious contriteness.

 

[iommi]

How transparent is that, though? Take a hit for scholarships we aren't using?

 

[RF2044]

LOL the scholarship limit is 13? So instead of taking a 2 scholarship this year we could theoretically take a 3 SCHOLARSHIP hit this year. That is what we should do. I am sorry to the walkons but if we take a self imposed 3 scholly hit that should show some serious contriteness.

My only question is: if the ostensible "self-imposed" scholarship reduction hasn't been announced before today, would the NCAA accept it as a legitimate "punishment," given that this year's roster is already fixed? Honest question--not sure what the answer would be. Because a 2 or 3 scholarship reduction is pretty steep, compared to the penalties other programs are getting. That would be a great bargaining chip to negotiate with if the NCAA is willing to accept it.

 

[Alsacs]

My only question is: if the ostensible "self-imposed" scholarship reduction hasn't been announced before today, would the NCAA accept it as a legitimate "punishment," given that this year's roster is already fixed? Honest question--not sure what the answer would be. Because a 2 or 3 scholarship reduction is pretty steep, compared to the penalties other programs are getting. That would be a great bargaining chip to negotiate with if the NCAA is willing to accept it.

Go back to the June 2010 JB announced that SU took the 2 scholarship hit for the APR AFTER THAT SEASON had been completed. Syracuse was never really penalized for that APR violation because JB preemptively took the hit. So obviously the NCAA didn't care as SU/JB smartly knew the Flynn/Devo/Harris crew hit on the APR was going to cause a scholly reduction so we took that penalty for a season we didn't need the schollys.

The NCAA is a POS organization that cares about saving face to keep the status quo. Southpark nailed the NCAA 3 years ago. Look at the Todd Gurley/Johnny Manziel cases. The NCAA sucks I think SU self reduces 3 scholarships this year as part of our penalty. it would most definitely help our case because the NCAA would be able salvage a win and it wouldn't hurt SU that much. We likely have other penalties but those could be negotiated to not kill us.

 

[jordoo]

How transparent is that, though? Take a hit for scholarships we aren't using?

Very but the NCAA can wear there big boy pants for the media while the P5 all give them a tip of the hat.

 

[jordoo]

My only question is: if the ostensible "self-imposed" scholarship reduction hasn't been announced before today, would the NCAA accept it as a legitimate "punishment," given that this year's roster is already fixed? Honest question--not sure what the answer would be. Because a 2 or 3 scholarship reduction is pretty steep, compared to the penalties other programs are getting. That would be a great bargaining chip to negotiate with if the NCAA is willing to accept it.

Well SU cannot talk about the investigation so they very well could have alerted the NCAA about this self imposed ban and we wouldn't know it. It could even have been agreed up on prior to this by SU and the NCAA but then the NCAA went after post season ban or wins or something that SU didn't like so we are having a hearing. We don't really know, that's the main thing.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

How transparent is that, though? Take a hit for scholarships we aren't using?

What do you think we did a few years ago when we were docked a scholarship for an APR violation?

 

[iommi]

What do you think we did a few years ago when we were docked a scholarship for an APR violation?

I realize we did it. My point is this current investigation has gotten a good amount of media coverage, so I'd be a little surprised if the NCAA goes along with a reduction of scholarships we really don't need.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I realize we did it. My point is this current investigation has gotten a good amount of media coverage, so I'd be a little surprised if the NCAA goes along with a reduction of scholarships we really don't need.

This is the same NCAA that has allowed football teams with losing records to self-impose bowl bans for years.

 

[CuseHulk]

I realize we did it. My point is this current investigation has gotten a good amount of media coverage, so I'd be a little surprised if the NCAA goes along with a reduction of scholarships we really don't need.

What media coverage ? From the Syracuse Substandard and Syracuse Slums.com ? With their B Team throwing mud on the wall. And their speculation and hypothesizing which is not Journalism.

Nationally it's been North Carolina, and even that had a shelve life.

 

[Alsacs]

We actually took a 2 scholarship hit with the APR violation in 2010. So I don't see that being a problem. The NCAA just wants to look like Roger Goodell that they are the Sheriff in charge. If they get a win against us they won't care about the media coverage as they will spin it as Syracuse will lose APR benefits from losing 3 schollys this year and I am sure there would be probation and maybe repaying $$$ from NCAA Tournaments as penalties as well. Syracuse has people smarter than me handling this case I am sure they doing what I have suggested and then some.

 

[moqui]

I realize we did it. My point is this current investigation has gotten a good amount of media coverage, so I'd be a little surprised if the NCAA goes along with a reduction of scholarships we really don't need.

it's called self-punishment, and we do need it, because our rolling APR score will take a hit without the boost those ringers give it.

it's a delicate balancing act that the staff has to manage

 

[moqui]

What media coverage ? From the Syracuse Substandard and Syracuse Slums.com ? With their B Team throwing mud on the wall. And their speculation and hypothesizing which is not Journalism.

Nationally it's been North Carolina, and even that had a shelve life.

still obsessively posting on the penalty speculation threads, I see, Mr. Baskektball.

 

[iommi]

I follow you guys--Alsacs and Moqui-- you guys make a lot of sense. My biggest concern is 2015, because we really need Bryant and the rest of that class.