The Orange Are Getting Back to Where They Should Be

[Cuse181]

Yup. We’ll never be UNC or Duke’s rival.

It’s too bad Maryland left. 1990’s-2000’s SU and Maryland could’ve been a major rivalry if the teams were in the same league, and the potential would still exist if both programs were at their best and in the same league.

There’s 12 other teams in the ACC, I’m sure a rivalry will develop

 

[sufandu]

Yup. We’ll never be UNC or Duke’s rival.

It’s too bad Maryland left. 1990’s-2000’s SU and Maryland could’ve been a major rivalry if the teams were in the same league, and the potential would still exist if both programs were at their best and in the same league.

And because we'll never be Duke's or UNC's rival we'll never be better than second fiddle in the league. Look at Virginia. If recent success can't even them up with the tobacco road guys despite their long tenure in the league, why would we think we can do any better? SU/Georgetown carried the Big East when the Big East was the most exciting conference in the country and that's why the era is remembered so fondly. To hope to establish anything similar in the ACC we would have to win a bunch of conference season and conference tournament titles over the course of about 15-20 years.

 

[OrangeDW]

There’s 12 other teams in the ACC, I’m sure a rivalry will develop

Most of them are mediocre-bad. UNC and Duke are the top dogs and they’ll never care about us that much. That’s a major difference than Georgetown, St. John’s, Nova, and later UConn.

Maybe if we can get really good again, Virginia can be our rival. Them and Louisville are the only possibilities that I even see. Pitt is a secondary rival.

 

[sufandu]

There’s 12 other teams in the ACC, I’m sure a rivalry will develop

Maybe. But how come most of those other teams haven't already established significant rivalries? Having a great rivalry where both teams have mutual hatred and are both really good isn't a given.

 

[Cuse181]

Maybe. But how come most of those other teams haven't already established significant rivalries? Having a great rivalry where both teams have mutual hatred and are both really good isn't a given.

I mean, part of it has to do with realignment, another has to do with a football focus for half the schools, and finally there are no good personalities at a lot of those second tier schools. Once you get a nate Oates like guy with a big mouth the rivalries will come. Personally, I have a hard time saying anything negative about UConn or Gtown because I didn’t care about their coaches until now. Those rivalries could be fun again, just like Pitt it Louisville could be if they got coaches like Dixon and pitino back.

 

[sufandu]

I mean, part of it has to do with realignment, another has to do with a football focus for half the schools, and finally there are no good personalities at a lot of those second tier schools. Once you get a nate Oates like guy with a big mouth the rivalries will come. Personally, I have a hard time saying anything negative about UConn or Gtown because I didn’t care about their coaches until now. Those rivalries could be fun again, just like Pitt it Louisville could be if they got coaches like Dixon and pitino back.

The ACC has existed since 1953. The only rivalry that anyone has really cared about has been Duke/UNC. If rivalries came about easily, there would be more. We were fortunate to have SU/Georgetown for a while. It's too bad it couldn't last. We'll probaby never have anything like it again. Pitt and Louisville were never rivalries the way Georgetown and later UConn were, even under Dixon and Pitino.

Think about it. Kentucky has been a blue blood for forever. Who is their heated rival? Nobody. Other schools in the SEC are happy when they beat them but there's nobody Kentucky hates enough to be a great rivalry. It's the same with UCLA.

Rivalries are hard to establish. There have to be two teams that are really good for a sustained period of time that play frequent meaningful games with something on the line, and they have to take turns taking something away from each other. That's a lot of stars aligning.

 

[orangefog]

The ACC has existed since 1953. The only rivalry that anyone has really cared aboit has been Duke/UNC. If rivalries came about easily, there would be more. We were fortunate to have SU/Georgetown for a while. It's too bad it couldn't last. We'll probaby never have anything like it again. Pitt and Louisville were never rivalries the way Georgetown and later UConn were, even under Dixon and Pitino.

Think about it. Kentucky has been a blue blood for forever. Who is their heated rival? Nobody. Other schools in the SEC are happy when they beat them but there's nobody Kentucky hates enough to be a great rivalry. It's the same with UCLA.

Rivalries are hard to establish. There have to be two teams that are really good for a sustained period of time that play frequent meaningful games with something on the line, and they have to take turns taking something away from each other. That's a lot of stars aligning.

Isn’t Colgate our rival?

 

[721Comstock]

Isn’t Colgate our rival?

Nah.

You need to have competitive games for it to be a rivalry.

 

[Orangezoo]

Most of them are mediocre-bad. UNC and Duke are the top dogs and they’ll never care about us that much. That’s a major difference than Georgetown, St. John’s, Nova, and later UConn.

Maybe if we can get really good again, Virginia can be our rival. Them and Louisville are the only possibilities that I even see. Pitt is a secondary rival.

Duke has seemingly locked back in to that role. UNC has taken a step back and is vulnerable. Long term they will always be there but at some point I expect them to have to move on from Hubert. There is a vacuum to be filled at the top quartile of the league and it's far from being set.

 

[OrangeDW]

The ACC has existed since 1953. The only rivalry that anyone has really cared about has been Duke/UNC. If rivalries came about easily, there would be more. We were fortunate to have SU/Georgetown for a while. It's too bad it couldn't last. We'll probaby never have anything like it again. Pitt and Louisville were never rivalries the way Georgetown and later UConn were, even under Dixon and Pitino.

Think about it. Kentucky has been a blue blood for forever. Who is their heated rival? Nobody. Other schools in the SEC are happy when they beat them but there's nobody Kentucky hates enough to be a great rivalry. It's the same with UCLA.

Rivalries are hard to establish. There have to be two teams that are really good for a sustained period of time that play frequent meaningful games with something on the line, and they have to take turns taking something away from each other. That's a lot of stars aligning.

I think NC State fans would disagree if you told them they have no rivalries.

Duke-Maryland was big for awhile, when Maryland was a national contender.

Kentucky’s rival is Louisville.

 

[orangenauburn]

I never want to see NY UB Blue again

 

[sufandu]

I think NC State fans would disagree if you told them they have no rivalries.

Duke-Maryland was big for awhile, when Maryland was a national contender.

Kentucky’s rival is Louisville.

Is Kentucky's rival Louisville? I think Louisville thinks that more than Kentucky. It may be a rivalry in name, but it doesn't move the needle. That's like saying BC is our rival.

Did Duke really consider Maryland a true rival? I think they viewed them the way they currently view Virginia. Sure, they were in the same conference and Maryland being good for a while made them pay attention, but Duke wasn't circling them on the calendar the way they do UNC, even when they were better than UNC.

Of course NC State would disagree. The teams that they consider to be rivals don't feel the same way about them. It's like when we considered Miami a rival in football. They couldn't have cared less. It was one way. That doesn't make for a good rivalry.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I agree and the current ACC is a good fit. A new ACC would be fine for FB but not worth it for BB. I don't think they'd have the leverage to make us keep all of our programs in that league. The Big East had Temple as a FB only member.

The Big East going Catholic only until Uconn rejoined was the best thing to happen to them you can't carry programs like USF. Our Basketball program will die like Uconns temporarily did if we end up in a depleted ACC. FB would be fine IMO assuming the AD changed course on its policy of not scheduling any attractive OOC games in the Dome. Our recruiting wouldn't change our classes are ranked in the bottom 2-3 of the league now anyway every year and we'd probably enter a given year as 2nd or 3rd favorites to win the league like back in the Big East days.

Butler is private but not a Catholic university.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It’s more fun because we grew up watching it, kids that grow up watching Syracuse play ACC schools will develop their own teams to hate, new rivalries will develop over time. Nostalgia is the only thing that makes big east basketball attractive to Syracuse.

The rivalries were real. They're not in the ACC. Part of that is that ACC scheduling is stupid. If it were better, they might not be paid $30M less per year than ESPN's other client conferences.

 

[Col. Bleep]

I think NC State fans would disagree if you told them they have no rivalries.

Duke-Maryland was big for awhile, when Maryland was a national contender.

Kentucky’s rival is Louisville.

I lived in Durham when Jordan. Perkins and Worthy played at UNC
NC State won the "Cardiac Pack" national championship over Houston
Viriginia had Ralph Sampson
And K was building Duke with Alarie, Bilas, Dawkins and Amaker.

Every matchup was great.
NCSU fans hated UNC and Duke.
And Valvano was viewed by non NCSU fans as a northern interloper.
But DUKE -UNC was the rivarly.
That was THE game that mattered for both schools.

And at the same time it was Syracuse-Georgetown.
Syracuse-Georgetown was up there with the top 3 rivalries in all of sports, in addition to UNC-Duke and Red Sox - Yankees.
Orange fans back then know what it was like...the passion and the excitement.
Newer fans have heard about it.

We're not in the same conference any more...so the intensity has waned.
Todays students have no idea.
They print up silly "Beat Duke" shirts.
The pusuit of football $ ruined things.

But there is tradition.
The SU- G-town game still matters a lot to a lot of us.
If the schools were smart they'd fan the flames to keep the rivalry alive,
Because genuine rivalries can't be created and can't be forced.
They happen spontaneously...usually because of specific incidents and geographic proximity.

We have no geographic rivals in the ACC.
So, unless we want to create a rivalry with Colgate after two straight years of humilation...we all ought to get behind the G-town rivalry.
They're only going to get better under Ed Cooley (of course, they really can't get worse).
The games are going to be a lot of fun.
Keep it going.
Keep hate alive.

And stop looking for phony "rivals" in the ACC.
The Orange are cultural misfits there.
Rivalries spontaneously happen...they're not planned creations.

 

[Sherman20]

Duke has seemingly locked back in to that role. UNC has taken a step back and is vulnerable. Long term they will always be there but at some point I expect them to have to move on from Hubert. There is a vacuum to be filled at the top quartile of the league and it's far from being set.

Hubert Davis got UNC to the title game two years ago as an 8 seed. He’s a UNC guy. They’re going to give him lots of time and I think he’ll be fine. Last season was wrecked for them by chemistry issues.

 

[Niastri]

I lived in Durham when Jordan. Perkins and Worthy played at UNC
NC State won the "Cardiac Pack" national championship over Houston
Viriginia had Ralph Sampson
And K was building Duke with Alarie, Bilas, Dawkins and Amaker.

Every matchup was great.
NCSU fans hated UNC and Duke.
And Valvano was viewed by non NCSU fans as a northern interloper.
But DUKE -UNC was the rivarly.
That was THE game that mattered for both schools.

And at the same time it was Syracuse-Georgetown.
Syracuse-Georgetown was up there with the top 3 rivalries in all of sports, in addition to UNC-Duke and Red Sox - Yankees.
Orange fans back then know what it was like...the passion and the excitment.
Newer fans have heard about it.

We're not in the same conference any more...so the intensity has waned.
Todays students have no idea.
They print up silly "Beat Duke" shirts.
The pusuit of football $ ruined things.

But there is tradition.
The SU- G-town game still matters a lot to a lot of us.
If the schools were smart they'd fan the flames to keep the rivalry alive,
Because genuine rivalries can't be created and can't be forced.
They happen spontaneously...usually because of specific incidents and geographic proximity.

We have no geographic rivals in the ACC.
So, unless we want to create a rivalry with Colgate after two straight years of humilation...we all ought to get behind the G-town rivalry.
They're only going to get better under Ed Cooley (of course, they really can't get worse).
The games are going to be a lot of fun.
Keep it going.
Keep hate alive.

And stop looking for phony "rivals" in the ACC.
The Orange are cultural misfits there.
Rivalries spontaneously happen...they're not planned creations.

Westry dunks on Filipowski with 1 second on the clock to go up by one in the ACC championship game. He then flips the ball to coach Scheyer and does a dance in front of the Duke bench while the clock expires.

Syracuse gets the 1 seed in the East while Duke is sent West as the 2.

We beat them again the championship game, this time a humiliating beat down where half their guys are fouled out crying on the bench. Thus, a beautiful new rivalry is born.

 

[Orangezoo]

Westry dunks on Filipowski with 1 second on the clock to go up by one in the ACC championship game. He then flips the ball to coach Scheyer and does a dance in front of the Duke bench while the clock expires.

Syracuse gets the 1 seed in the East while Duke is sent West as the 2.

We beat them again the championship game, this time a humiliating beat down where half their guys are fouled out crying on the bench. Thus, a beautiful new rivalry is born.

Also UConn watches this from their couches after failing to make the tournament.

 

[Niastri]

Also UConn watches this from their couches after failing to make the tournament.

No, UConn is the 1 in the South, losing to the play in game winner while Hurley goes to the hospital via ambulance with "exhaustion" before the games even over.

 

[Orangezoo]

No, UConn is the 1 in the South, losing to the play in game winner while Hurley goes to the hospital via ambulance with "exhaustion" before the games even over.

That's fine too as long as they have to watch us dominate like we did them the whole tournament.

 

[Orangefizz]

No, UConn is the 1 in the South, losing to the play in game winner while Hurley goes to the hospital via ambulance with "exhaustion" before the games even over.

Let’s give the UCONN comments a rest.

As much as I hate to say this, they have so much more success than Syracuse with five national championships. Let’s try to get back into the tournament and beat Colgate before we start comparing ourselves with UConn.

 

[baggerbob]

Let’s give the UCONN comments a rest.

As much as I hate to say this, they have so much more success than Syracuse with five national championships. Let’s try to get back into the tournament and beat Colgate before we start comparing ourselves with UConn.

That would have been our rival in the ACC,
And would have been better for the league then having Louisville join.

 

[sufandu]

That would have been our rival in the ACC,
And would have been better for the league then having Louisville join.

Yep. Another example of football driving the bus.

 

[OrangeDW]

No, UConn is the 1 in the South, losing to the play in game winner while Hurley goes to the hospital via ambulance with "exhaustion" before the games even over.

I’d prefer to see Hurley go to the hospital after getting knocked out by a fed up referee.

 

[OrangeDW]

Let’s give the UCONN comments a rest.

As much as I hate to say this, they have so much more success than Syracuse with five national championships. Let’s try to get back into the tournament and beat Colgate before we start comparing ourselves with UConn.

No.