The Out of Bounds call...

[Orangello]

The media is on to this BS. His name is Doug Sirmons BTW and he has a history of questionable calls

http://www.sbnation.com/college-bas...-steal-referee-mistake-replay-ncaa-tournament

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBas...ree_doug_sirmons_is_off_all_uk_games_for_the/

 

[Orangeman]

All three announcers, everyone watching at home and probably all 3 refs (after going to the monitor) agree with you. They decided it was not a reviewable call. I guess the difference is once you take a live play and blow it dead you've made a call that can't be reversed. Gonzaga may have trapped Cooney in the corner, he may have fallen out of bounds, etc. etc. By blowing it dead you've caused an unnatural break that can't be undone. When they review an out of bounds play, the ball has gone out, play has been whistled dead, they are simply trying to determine who touched it last. The call they made to give it to one team or the other happens with the ball dead.

I think the baseline red called a foul on Gonzaga, I mean the did foul and was trying to foul

Cooney could have just stood there for 10 secs right?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Well to be fair that's a really tough thing to see in real time, being that close to the baseline with game speed ...which is why you don't call something you actually cannot see. Again, had no angle.

 

[CuseCPT]

Well to be fair that's a really tough thing to see in real time, being that close to the baseline with game speed ...which is why you don't call something you actually cannot see. Again, had no angle.

That's what is so infuriating about it, he would have had to be able to see through Cooney's foot. It's the kind of call that is so incompetent that you can fairly ask if maybe it's not just incompetence, maybe it something much worse. Sirmonds deserves to have to answer those types of questions today.

 

[upperdeck]

the baseline ref is equally as culpable.. he didnt blow the whistle either because he couldnt tell or because he knew he was in, both would be correct. but if he thinks he is in then he needs to over rule the ref with no view, if he couldnt tell then he needs to at least try to make sure the other guy has a great view of something he couldnt see from his angle, the third ref needs to make sure the other 2 were clear on what they saw.

one ref swallowed his whistle and didnt try his eyes, the other one got over anxious.

 

[sabach]

IIRC didn't this ref come out if nowhere to make a foul call on one of our guys on Sabonis earlier in the game when the ref under the basket saw no foul?

 

[CusefanATL]

Here is my exact process of that play:

1. i predicted a steal to a buddy
2. Cooney steals
3. I go bananas and jump in the arms of my buddy "i told you i told you i told you!!"
4. realize they call ob and not the foul i assumed
5. boo the ref
6. realize cooney was clearly in bounds
7. cheer that it will still be our ball - high five the bar "its out ball! its our ball!"
8. realize we are prob going to get an extra .5 second to a second off the clock we don't really deserve because of the bad call. happy.
9. wonder what is taking so long
10. notice the ref is 30 feet away from play
11. tell myself no matter what happens - remain calm - stay in your lucky position. its ok.
12. breathe its going to be our ball, but either way stay calm
13. see the ref mouth the words "by rule we can't..." i black out
14. i come back to, i am repeatedly slamming my chair into the ground "how can that ref make that call? FIRE HIM! KILL HIM!"
15. realize that CUSE fans are staring at me "what is that wacko doing?"
16. nonchalantly place my chair back into place and try to get back into luck position avoiding all eye contact.
17. THE BLOCK
18. jump cheer scream high five and hug all of the a holes that were just placing judgment on me.

LGO

 

[CusefanATL]

IIRC didn't this ref come out if nowhere to make a foul call on one of our guys on Sabonis earlier in the game when the ref under the basket saw no foul?

yep. the ref under the basket looked like he was even going to give us the ball and the ref from nearly the same spot as the ob call came running in. I went bananas on that. I wonder if it was same ref.

 

[Flacusian]

Obviously the ref has no business making that call from his position, but the rule needs to change. You should be able to review ANYTHING related to out of bounds in the final two minutes. It has to be conclusive anyway, so there's no true downside. Yes, you inadvertently whistled a play dead when they could have trapped him (but it was a foul in this case anyway), but obviously in the long run you'd rather give the right team the ball and take away a chance at a trap then to just award the ball to the other team on a blown call. Horrible rule as it currently stands.

Also, I was immediately saying we got screwed even if they gave us the ball back - spot inbound in the corner as opposed to being fouled - Gonzaga would have been gifted an opportunity to get a steal on the inbound even if they could have overturned it.

Great point.

 

[xc84]

 

[SUMBA]

That is the story of Cooney career though. He does something amazing and somehow it gets messed up. I thought they should have called an offensive make up foul after the inbound. If we lost on that it would have been the worst defeat in Syracuse history.

Four words: Lawrence Moten time out.

 

[Cowtown]

Okay, I watched it all again last night, and here's what I think happened. That ref was very good the whole game until that point. Honestly. He blew his whistle very little in a "let 'em play" style. Well, teams who win with defense need that style of ref. In fact, he was so good you wouldn't have noticed he was even there. So anyway, I think he knew he had to assert himself with a big call in a big moment of a big game, for he hadn't done anything noticeable up to that point. The other problem is that lead didn't move across the floor with the ball, which left a large space "uncovered." The NCAA wants its officials to be more NBA-ish that way, ie lead doesn't move with the ball, rather you wait to see where it goes before you cross the lane. Those two things looked to me like what actually caused the problem there. Just IMHO.

 

[OburgOrange]

Okay, I watched it all again last night, and here's what think happened. That ref was very good the whole game until that point. He blew his whistle very little in a "let 'em play" style. Well, teams who win with defense need that style of ref. In fact, he was so good you wouldn't have noticed he was even there. So anyway, I think he knew he had to assert himself with a big call in a big moment of a big game, for he hadn't done anything noticeable up to that point. The other problem is that lead didn't move across the floor with the ball, which left a large space "uncovered." The NCAA wants its officials to be more NBA-ish that way, ie lead doesn't move with the ball, rather you wait to see where it goes before you cross the lane. Those two things looked to me like what actually caused the problem there. Just IMHO.

So you're saying he 'ed up

 

[Cowtown]

So you're saying he 'ed up

Which is the same thing I said last night, too, only a lot louder then. If you watch the replay, you can tell he couldn't see it, and knowing a call had to be made there, he guessed.

 

[Ringostar57]

Maybe this call unleashes the inner Cooney. 8 threes per game the rest of the way!

 

[Ajflood12]

Four words: Lawrence Moten time out.

Haha. I just watched it on youtube. Fortunately I was only ten and didn't have to experience that. Only thing I can say is we DID call a timeout back then. This would have been taken from us by a ref.

 

[kuethstheman]

It all would have been moot if the catatonic baseline ref had called the immediate foul the Zag player was attempting after Cooney stole the ball. He had one hand on his back while poking with the other one. The kid had to resort to hugging Cooney before the other ref made that out of bounds call from half court.

If they'd been calling that kind of contact, everybody on SU would already have fouled out.

 

[Cowtown]

The baseline ref wasn't that much if any closer to the play than the guy that called it. He probably had no idea if Cooney was out of bounds.

His body language would confirm that.

 

[DomeStranger]

The baseline ref was swinging his arm towards the SYR goal. I don't know why else he would do that. Either he was counting off 5 seconds or he was signalling the player was in bounds. Either way it seemed he was making the call that he was in.

Can any ref's explain why else he would do that?

 

[Cowtown]

If they'd been calling that kind of contact, everybody on SU would already have fouled out.

I honestly think the officiating last night was pretty good, it's just too bad that will now be overlooked because of the out-of-bounds call. I don't even have a problem with the call against Lydon on Sabonis' flop, because you absolutely have to have a call there, or you're inviting more of it.

 

[upperdeck]

if the ref didnt see out then he has no call to make. by not over ruling the other ref you have to assume he had no idea.. if he had the call as in and didnt over rule then he screwed it up too.

 

[CaptainJ]

There's a morbid part of me that wonders if this board literally be shut down if Syracuse ended up losing on this garbage... a true meltdown of epic proportions.

This makes my daily top 5 post list, for the sadly rare use of the word "meltdown", which I learned from reading this board(well, back on sco*t, or whatever was 2 times ago). I like the word, and will openly say some of the meltdowns I am able to find something to enjoy, at least.

 

[Cowtown]

The baseline ref was swinging his arm towards the SYR goal. I don't know why else he would do that. Either he was counting off 5 seconds or he was signalling the player was in bounds. Either way it seemed he was making the call that he was in.

Can any ref's explain why else he would do that?

I saw that gesture on the replay, also. I don't know what he was doing. By the way he took his time walking over to the ref who actually made the call, I suspect he was running all the possible scenarios in his mind.

 

[SWC75]

I saw that gesture on the replay, also. I don't know what he was doing. By the way he took his time walking over to the ref who actually made the call, I suspect he was running all the possible scenarios in his mind.

He didn't know what he was doing, either.

 

[Cowtown]

He didn't know what he was doing, either.

On that play, I think so. However, he and the shorter black ref made most of the calls in that game, and we prospered by it.